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I like Kled. Im just sad of what's likely to happen to him.

MeDicenWera··47 votes·4,432 views

You already know he's gonna get picked at worlds, then massively nerfed, he's just gonna get his legs cut afther he gets a chance to shine.

You know, what's sad? The fact that Riot has been consistently delivering new champions that have to get destroyed balanced wise because their kits are just too synergistic with themselves and nothing else can't keep up. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with trying to make cool champions that are fun to play like Azir, Kalista, Kindred, Poppy, Ekko, Fiora. It just seems like a dick measurement competition design wise, in which every champ tries to outdick the rest.

Like, back to Kled, his kit is really good at working with itself, incredibly, to the point that he needs the invulnerability to cc, and movement speed to work with his ult. But sooner or later the movement speed to allies is gonna get cut, and you can't nerf invulnerability to cc with numbers. The range is gonna go down and what was a great engage champion ends up being an OK engage champion.

Just as Azir could engage like crazy with his E knock up, shield, and several seconds ult. Now he can... ult for 3 sec. And that's it. So I'd like to stop seeing champions that have cool fun designs but are impossible to balance, not because they annoy me per se, just because what's the point of that? Of giving a champion an identity just so strip it away because they were so degenerate to the game?

85 Comments

LadyRenly35 votes

They keep making champions overtuned and overloaded numbers wise. I don't think Kleds kit is inherently toxic, but goddamn hes way too powerful.

MLDzXnRRR4 votes

{quoted}

They keep making champions overtuned and overloaded numbers wise. I don't think Kleds kit is inherently toxic, but goddamn hes way too powerful.

Only when he is mounted... Kled without the lizard is the most pathetic thing in the whole game. If your team is retarded, you won't focus him.

Mecha Incognito14 votes

That's the thing though, everyone says 'without skaarl he's useless' but he really isn't. Atleast, not against other melee champions. Against ranged I can see him losing out quite easily, but if he gets his W + Q onto a melee champ, he gets his mount back immediately, which is a heal similar to an AP Soraka ult.

I don't mind him having batshit crazy damage (it suits him, really), but the window of weakness he has isn't nearly weak enough.

MeDicenWera2 votes

The problem I think it has is that the kit combined with the passive and items is what's toxic. I think it' such because it's extremely good at sticking and eliminating a squishy or otherwise duel with a bruiser. This is while building Blavk Cleaver and Death's Dance, right, which along with his passive makes him very hard to take outta Skaarl if he does't do it fast. But he CAN do it fast because hes uninterrupted while ulting, gets a shield, a Sivir ult for himself and half of it for his teammates and Lifesteal and Cooldown enough to thrive.

And it' good for him to thrive but a lot of that IS excessive, the sinergy of all of it is maybe too much, if you want an examplee, Black Cleaver Yoummus Lucian is an example, except Lucian was never tanky with it that built.

So while.I can see a number adjustment making him viable but no oppressive, the passive and all that the R offers makes me.think Riot as they tend to do, will not take the time to carefully fix his kit, even number wise, just straight out screw him sideways.

MunchCrunchLunch18 votes

just remove the dismount and mount invulnerability. and i'd call it even. i dont want nothing else.

Arakadia5 votes

He'd be so damn simple then. Sure so much more balanced (probably UP if you just did that and nothing else) but that would take away his identity.

Zerenza7 votes

Sooooo becoming invulnerable is only identity. I'm fairly sure no one else in the game play's like him, has his ability's or even a passive that's similar at all. He's completely unique the only reason he becomes invulnerable is because riot was afraid it would give enemies to much of an advantage that they can just CC him or get free poke in once he mounts or dismounts because he'll be standing still.

All they have to do is allow him to move during it and make it so it doesn't cancel his Auto's or ability's. Removing invulnerability on a champion that literally has no business having it would never take away his identity.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh no. Why would attacking a horse do anything to its rider? Oh right, I forgot. Tying up a horse's legs magically ties up the rider's legs too… oh wait.

Attticus Finch11 votes

Why would boots allow someone who's floating or flying (malz, Janna etc) to run faster? Why does buying swords give Caitlyn more attack power when she uses a gun?

Oh right, because this is a video game, and game mechanics take priority over visual consistency.

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh yeah, except there's nothing wrong with letting Kled have said invulnerability frames, and people are just whining too much.

Attticus Finch4 votes

Which has nothing to do with the point you made, which I was responding to. An appeal to realism is a poor argument when the game has a variety of abstractions that forsake realism in favor of smooth mechanics.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

Relevant username.

Arakadia3 votes

Invulnerability is not his identity. Its his passive.

ActivatingEMP2 votes

{quoted}

I'm fairly sure no one else in the game play's like him, has his ability's or even a passive that's similar at all. Gnar anyone?

Death by Kayn11 votes

I feel the one of biggest problems with Kled is his ability to toggle aggro due to the invulnerability, on towers and epic monsters. It makes dives pretty much TOO free on him.

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

Well you have to realize that led becomes unmounted and very slow and weak damage wise. So the invulnerability is kind of needed to make him into a go ham type of character instead of a run away when you reach 60% of your health.

BakedLotion3 votes

{quoted}

just remove the dismount and mount invulnerability. and i'd call it even. i dont want nothing else.

I want him to not be able to heal for half his hp for attacking for 3 seconds.

Sammystorm6 votes

The problem with kled is he has no incentive to build tank stats. He gets tanky enough with just base stats to survive in a mini form long enough to get his mount back. So what will end up happening is that kleds base stats will be nerfed and he will be forced to build tank which is probably a good thing.

chubs12241 votes

You would think this would be ritos path but you would be wrong most like

xTropicalPenguin4 votes

I was so happy when Taliyah was getting picked in lcs, then the nerf nation attacked, but us Taliyah mains have remained strong, doing our best to withstand the nerfs, the ulti nerf being justified as "there are people who are too good at her" item 3070

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

{quoted}

I was so happy when Taliyah was getting picked in lcs, then the nerf nation attacked, but us Taliyah mains have remained strong, doing our best to withstand the nerfs, the ulti nerf being justified as "there are people who are too good at her" item 3070

her nerfs weren't that big tho they didn't drop the sledge hammer they just used a little gavel

Princess Íncest3 votes

{quoted}

I was so happy when Taliyah was getting picked in lcs, then the nerf nation attacked, but us Taliyah mains have remained strong, doing our best to withstand the nerfs, the ulti nerf being justified as "there are people who are too good at her" item 3070

What's a taliyah main?

HellsTrueKing4 votes

I think the real problem is they made him too different just so he felt unique. In my opinion, his identity & passive would be better suited with a kit along the lines of Gnar. That way he would have two full ability sets that are balanced around his passive.

As he sets now, he has a really strong kit while mounted, but an incomplete kit while unmounted. Without Skarl, he feels useless and super weak, but they "fixed" that by allowing him to get Skarl back, essential giving him an instant heal for 40% of his health. That gives him this feeling that he's completely imbalanced within himself, nevermind how he feels in the game.

I don't like how they took away an ability while unmounted, then severely reduced his movement speed, but gave him a movement boost and a glorified auto for a Q. This makes it really hard to stick to someone while unmounted, which you need to do in order to proc your passive, and while the instant heal is ridiculous, actually getting it is damn hard.

In the end, I like the idea they were going for and I love the champions personality; however, I feel that by reducing his power so much while unmounted, it means Kled will be extremely difficult to balance.

Arakadia2 votes

Unmounted neads its own E or own ult or something. He feels too crappy without Skaarl. And he needs turret aggro to stay when he unmounts.

HellsTrueKing2 votes

I think if they did give him an E, he'd be way easier to balance. I don't know if he needs an ult while unmounted, afterall Gnar doesn't have access to his ult until after his passive procs.

I am confused why they did the turret aggro thing. Although I suppose it gives him something similar to Fizz's E. I actually wonder if it has something to do with Skarl having her own health bar. As if it's integrated into the champion because of the separate health bars and can't be changed.

Arakadia1 votes

Im pretty sure they could, and should, remove the turret aggro drop effect.

TFBaam3 votes

[zombie-nunu-tears] i feel ya man

ShadowParker3 votes

And then there's Sol and Taliyah who haven't been broken.

While I do fear for what will happen to Kled. To list off champions that you find cancerous isnt a good argument.

Ekko is fine. His tank builds warranted nerfs. Fiora is balanced now. Azir is slated for a rework. Poppy is weak but hasn't lost core parts of her kit.

Kindred and Kalista have lost a lot. I'll give you those two.

Lord Azır3 votes

{quoted}

And then there's Sol and Taliyah who haven't been broken.

While I do fear for what will happen to Kled. To list off champions that you find cancerous isnt a good argument.

Ekko is fine. His tank builds warranted nerfs. Fiora is balanced now. Azir is slated for a rework. Poppy is weak but hasn't lost core parts of her kit.

Kindred and Kalista have lost a lot. I'll give you those two.

Azir isn't getting a rework until at least late 2018 if that.

ShadowParker2 votes

And how do you know that? Because as far as I can tell, they're not going to fully rework him. Just rework his stats and damage etc. To either push him into a dps mage (get rid of shurima shuffle) or push him into a battle mage (Kill his range). Neither of those needs a full on rework. So, I believe it'll come sometime next year.

Communist Toast2 votes

{quoted}

And then there's Sol and Taliyah who haven't been broken.

While I do fear for what will happen to Kled. To list off champions that you find cancerous isnt a good argument.

Ekko is fine. His tank builds warranted nerfs. Fiora is balanced now. Azir is slated for a rework. Poppy is weak but hasn't lost core parts of her kit.

Kindred and Kalista have lost a lot. I'll give you those two.

Sol got nerfs

Supreme Senpai691 votes

They weren't really needed though. The adjustment nerf to his W was probably warranted but I don't see it affecting his winrate too much. They sorta gutted his ult though, and a lot of people agree it wasn't needed because his winrate wasn't too high and his play rate was abysmal. So it's still totally fair to say Sol wasn't broken, because he wasn't.

Unless you're saying he's too weak now, which I think he'd be like Poppy. Sorta weak but still fine.

Communist Toast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b7PIQ4Kj,comment-id=000500030000,timestamp=2016-08-13T01:16:56.602+0000)

They weren't really needed though. The adjustment nerf to his W was probably warranted but I don't see it affecting his winrate too much. They sorta gutted his ult though, and a lot of people agree it wasn't needed because his winrate wasn't too high and his play rate was abysmal. So it's still totally fair to say Sol wasn't broken, because he wasn't.

Unless you're saying he's too weak now, which I think he'd be like Poppy. Sorta weak but still fine.

wasn't needed or not, he still got nerfed. therefore he was "broken" in the eyes of riot

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Not at all. Just slightly overtuned in the eyes of Riot. Being broken would warrant a hotfix

ShadowParker1 votes

He got nerfs, but didn't lose parts of his kit.

For example: Kindred lost her heal and her ability to ult allies Azir lost his knockup, sacrificing soldiers on turrets, movement speed boost walking through his ult.

Communist Toast1 votes

{quoted}

He got nerfs, but didn't lose parts of his kit.

For example: Kindred lost her heal and her ability to ult allies Azir lost his knockup, sacrificing soldiers on turrets, movement speed boost walking through his ult.

why do you compare it to other people? it's not a "who had it worst" contest.

having lost from of his stun/slow power I would say he did lose some of his kit though, Sol's kit is all about jousting/kiting.

ShadowParker1 votes

He didn't lose parts of his kit though. He lost power for sure, but not parts. The examples I gave were solely to show what I meant. Being that those two are great examples.

Keepe3 votes

he's just gonna get his legs cut afther he gets a chance to shine.

No they won't. That's what Skaarl is for!

SiG DxD3 votes

kled is cancer i dont think is normal that his W hits me 4th time for 1200 damage as darius with 200 armor fuck that and he had bc /death dance all game

53872273_DEL2 votes

You know OP has a point with the dick measurment. But, you know who has the biggest dick in the game. DA DA DA Ekko

BloodyTompon2 votes

I reckon it's the whale Fizz summons.

Spoofghoul4 votes

hint; its not a whale

Meep Man2 votes

Kled offers something unique in the form of a super hard engage ultimate without crowd control. That alone will likely net him at least one pick at worlds if he isn't disabled to a bug or something. Not sure why else he would be nerfed though. The rest of his kit isn't just eye popping and his passive isn't as good as you think it is once you play him.

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

His immunity when he gets dismounted needs to get removed, why are you punished for beating him in a fight? Then he gets more escapes when hes little, he can do without that bullshit immunity.

Çhåryzård2 votes

Is it just me or did the past 2 midlaners ( AurelionSol and Taliyah ) have a chance and then get driven into the ground

I mean, they can still do good, but...they aren't the best pick so they don't get played. I feel like when they were released they were actually more close to being balanced. Not perfect, but closer, and then people bitched and now they're both messes. Aurelion more than Taliyah.

inplane1 votes

{quoted}

Is it just me or did the past 2 midlaners ( AurelionSol and Taliyah ) have a chance and then get driven into the ground

I mean, they can still do good, but...they aren't the best pick so they don't get played. I feel like when they were released they were actually more close to being balanced. Not perfect, but closer, and then people bitched and now they're both messes. Aurelion more than Taliyah.

They were fine until people asked for buffs that broke them. Instead of focusing on what they were supposed to be, the community wanted them to do what they're not supposed to. Luckily Ao Sol can't pop his Q too early or it would make his self peel way too good. People wanted that. Thing is, you have to position properly as him. That's his whole playstyle. Unlike Taliyah's creator, Ao Sol's creator didn't give in to complaints because he knows his design isn't too flawed and it's just that people need to get use to his playstyle. You don't see anyone complaining about him now.

Lohenngramm1 votes

Honestly I don't see him getting picked worlds, at least not often. He doesn't have the skill set that pros like in their toplaners. Kled is built to do one thing: Go ham and kill his opponent. None of his skills (except his ult) have any utility outside of sticking to a person, which means if he can't kill anyone he's useless (and can be brutally hard countered by some champs). While this may not be a problem in lower tier, disorganized play, higher tier players make fewer mistakes and rarely die. As a result, they tend to prefer more supportive and less damage focused toplaners who can peel and tank while letting the ADC lay down damage. Thus Kled is fairly useless outside of his ult, which isn't even needed when pro-players can just pick Sivir.

MeDicenWera1 votes

Darius was picked at worlds extensively (before player realized he was a trap) just because he was numerically strong. Literally, no other reason, he was a pentakill machine, so I don't think Kled needs any other reason to get picked except that he's strong.

I agree with you, he probably shouldn't, but there's no ceirtanty.

Lohenngramm1 votes

In that case they were building a team specifically around Darius to support his strengths and cover his weaknesses because his kit made it worthwhile. It really was no different than building a comp around a Twitch or a Kog'Maw since, as a juggernaut, Darius is supposed to be able to carry games. Kled though has nowhere near the teamfight potential of Darius or the survivability. Pro's prefer champs with more options than Kill Everything or Die.

BlongTreyLo1 votes

No he's not gon be pick at worlds, haven't seen anyone play him so far. Tbh ever since he was release I realized no kled can damn carry, his kit is good but it's so weak to carry the team. I played over 200 games probably since he was release and of all Kleds I seen from Normal/Ranks their kda are usually average 1.0 or less, sometimes i see one or two fed ones but in the end they fall off somehow. I have not seen Kled impact much of a game compare to other lanes having higher potential. His kit is not even strong enough to 1vs2 unless ur fed lol depending on the enemy champ of course but in most cases he is too easy to get locked down unless he is lucky with that passive dropping the untargetable escape on him. It takes no skills to jus grab and auto an enemy so the enemy pro player can easily hard cc or run away very easily. Overall he just have little to no surprising outplay situation at all unless enemy miscalculate his item power.

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