Ever since the small mobs got removed Fiddle's been struggling in clearing his buffs so why can't we make his crow bounce off him and large monsters? It wouldn't have any effect on lane fiddle and against champions but would improve his clearing a lot.
Fuh Queue6 votesI actually like this idea alot.
Cosmic Warper6 votesRiot tested it on the pbe a while back. Apparently it was too strong or something. I think it's a great idea, but riot didn't think so after some testing ( fear into a near perma silence sounds obnoxious)
Knoyle4 votesBut if it only works on large monsters what is the real issue? Fiddles is supposed to have a healthy clear right?
3TWarrior6 votesit's because riot is trying to enforce roles instead of true diversity
Paquay16 votesBut doesn't it only apply the silence the first time it hits an enemy? It shouldn't reapply on second hits I believe.
Troy2426211 votesBut doesn't it only apply the silence the first time it hits an enemy? It shouldn't reapply on second hits I believe.
That is correct. It was changed a while ago.
Cosmic Warper1 votesBut doesn't it only apply the silence the first time it hits an enemy? It shouldn't reapply on second hits I believe.
oh you're right. My bad i'm not up to date on fiddlesticks much :/
SSShutTheDuckUp2 votesMaybe when they tried it it silenced Fiddle himself
Hahahahyena1 voteswith riot's spaghetti code i would believe that
Whut Thuh 3 votesim pretty sure that it had to do with his insane 1 v 1 potential when he was alone, also it would hurt his other camp clears because it would bounce off him, wasting a bounce and damage
Sirsir2 votesIt would prioritize not hitting him, just like it tries to avoid hitting the same target twice.
And to keep it from becoming obnoxious in 1v1s, make it only bounce to fiddle from a jungle monster (and only if theres no other mob to hit)
DeathBurst1 votesIf the problem was that it was too strong in duel against champions, there are still plenty of easy solutions to avoid that. The most obvious being: only allow a bounce on Fiddle if the previous target was a jungle monster.
Fondling Gems5 votesThink about how much damage a Fid E can do when you get it bouncing between two targets. It is pretty damn scary. Making it bounce off himself would mean that fighting him in most of the jungle would be suicide between his fear, full E bounces, and healing on top of that.
It also means he could ult into a lane, all the lane minions die, then guarantee max crow bounces against you. He already has some pretty good buffs on the PBE, having the crow bounce off himself would be far too much in 1v1 situations when combined with his Q and W.
EndlessSorcerer8 votesThey never suggested it bounce between Fiddlesticks and another champion.
Only Fiddlesticks and large monsters.
Fondling Gems10 votesAnd is that not a clarity issue? If an ability doesn't bounce of fiddlesticks unless it last hit a large monster? And in that case if it hits a small camp then a large camp does it have the option of bouncing to Fid thereby reducing his damage output on the camp?
Does it only target Fid if it last hit a large monster and there is nothing else for it to bounce to? Does it mean that if you E a champion and it then bounces to a large monster it will bounce off of Fid before bouncing to the champion again because it prioritizes new targets? Will it bounce to Fid then to the champion if they walked out of the range for it to bounce off of Gromp? Can it only bounce to large monsters after bouncing to Fid?
There are so many fringe cases that it heavily clouds clarity to have it only bounce off of Fid in some situations, especially since Fid E explains that it prioritizes new targets on the ability and you would have to add in more text explaining that it can bounce off fid but only in certain situations.
Bob the Toastr1 votesYes it totally reduces his damage output. 1/6 or at most 2/6 bounces (33% damage reduction max) on 50% of the camps in exchange for 3x the damage on the other 50% of the camps. 62.5% if you count the rift scuttlers. Total damage reduction. Oh, and I didn't even mention drag/baron.
Fondling Gems2 votesYes but his clear on most camps is only OK. It isn't anything special. This means that you have to buff his ability to clear single camps without nerfing his ability to clear group camps because his single camp damage needs to be ramped up to match his multi camp damage. His jungle clear specifically doesn't need to be nerfed in any areas, which the bounce rules do.
Furthermore that still doesn't excuse the breach in game clarity which is the main argument I was making.
Glory ln Death1 votes"If the crow hits a large or epic monster and there are no additional neutral or enemy units to target, the crow will return to Fiddlesticks and bounce off of him."
Pretty easy to add in a simple explanation like that to the tooltip.
Papa Andrei2 votesJust him and large monsters/Epic Monsters. That would his jungling clears would be better but his actual fighting would be unchanged.
Fondling Gems2 votesCheck my reply to endless sorcerer, you commented while I was replying to him.
Herclitus2 votesThis would make his clear insane. I saw a video not too long ago where a dude (level 2, because he started+leash on wolves) pulled blue buff and gromp together while sitting between the two (which you can do without resetting aggro), popped E out and W on blue buff. Literally was level 3 before bot lane hit level 2. Now imagine if you didn't have to be creative.
[edit] TBC, he was in lane, bot lane, ganking them, before they hit level 2.
muted team chat1 votesIf you want to play fiddlesticks just play amumu. He does the same thing but better while building tanky oh and his ult has built in CC.
If Riot reworked fiddles they would just give him amumu's kit.
3TWarrior1 voteswell, fiddle is a drain tank and his E provides a semi-hard CC with silence
if they changed how his ultimate and passive worked, he'd probably be fine
Herclitus1 votesNot to mention silence is a rather unusual form of CC in league, which is part of what makes fiddle incredibly strong. If he just had his fear to rely on he wouldn't be half as good.
3TWarrior1 voteswell, I wouldn't say strong but he does have a bit of everything. He just excels at nothing
Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votesThey could also reduce monsters' resistance affinity in the early levels as most junglers can't really decide where they start anymore. It's decided for them by their placement on the map (blue side vs. red side). That would make Fiddlesticks' clear against Red Buff and Krugs much easier.
Or they could give Fiddlesticks' Fear a flat Magic Resistance reduction similar to Rammus' Armor Reduction. A lesser one, of course, since it's ranged. But even a little flat reduction greatly increases damage against enemies with little to or no Magic Resistance. That would help his "second" clear after level 3, it would help his early game (ganks and fights with enemy junglers) and shift his power curve to a fall off late game (I think he's just plain bad at all stages of the game except for good ults at the moment?) and it would just help him out all around.
OR they could give his E an additional effect if it only hits one target. Like a partial cooldown reset, or bonus damage, bonus damage-over-time (for Rylai's) or a slow for kiting the buffs, or a mark that buffs his Drain in some way (like with bonus damage or a slow or increased healing or more range) (note: this would also fit into his Horror Movie identity as they tend to hunt single targets at the start of the movie before they get strong enough to chase the whole group through the rain).
OR they could just continue buffing up his E's damage against monsters as they currently are, though that won't necessarily solve any of his other issues /s (Is that how you use /s?)
JuhnChan1 votesSince there seems to be a debate over clarity if Fiddle's E ONLY bounces to him from a large monster, what if his E could bounce to him at all times (low priority), but every time it goes from an enemy champion back to him, the crow's damage gets reduced by half?
So instead of 200 - 0 - 200 - 0 - 200 - 0 (assuming 200 damage crow, super OP 600 damage E)
It becomes 200 - 0 - 100 - 0 - 50 - 0. (optimal situation, only 350 damage. Not a bad comparison to LB chain or Viktor laser)
And in the case of there being a minion and an enemy champion, the situation wouldn't change. Both the enemy champion and the enemy minion would take full damage. However, it has to be noted that if the minion dies partway, the crow could switch to Fiddle on say, the fourth or fifth bounce to add one more instance of damage. So in an optimal situation it could be a massive buff (extra 100 damage. remember, that's a lot. remember -3 AD?)
SaltyKracka1 votesHe already has W, which absolutely rapes large monsters. His actual problem clearing is with raptors and Krugs.
So...no.
