I feel Shyvana is in the wrong catagory of champions.

Mira Arya Enthe··3 votes·744 views

Riot lists her as a Juggernaut, like Darius, Garen and Illaoi. But functionally, she is much more like Udyr, Yi, Trynd and Kayle.

She is a high DPS champion, who benefits a lot from attack speed, primarily uses basic attacks, has good chase and running power, a lot of movement speed, mild damage mitigation and otherwise a kit aimed completely at doing as much damage in a DPS format as possible. This is what Yi, Udyr, Trynd and Kayle do. They build attack speed, on hit/crit, a couple tank items, they have a manner of defense in their kit(Q dodging and heal for Yi, Heal and Ult for Trynd, Heal and Ult for Kayle, Shield and Lifesteal for Udyr) they all only have a single CC in their kit that isn't very strong when compared to tanks.

On the other hand, people like Darius, Garen and Illaoi primarily use abilities to deal a large burst or short window amount of damage to targets, build very tanky, almost fully tanky, don't care about attack speed much, each have some solid CC, don't have much movement speed comparably and all build Black Cleaver every game.

Seems to me, like she should be listed like Yi, Udyr, Trynd and Kayle, not like Garen, Darius and Illaoi.

EDIT: Because most of the Juggernauts appear to be AD casters(damage is primarily through abilities) while Shyvana is more like a DPS(Abilities augment basic attack DPS, benefits from attack speed).

14 Comments

Neamean3 votes

In my opinion there are two type of juggernaut one who utilize their aoe ability for the bulk of their damage and the one with more single target damage. Darius Illaoi Garen(group a) are the first type and what most people think of when they hear juggernaut the other being champ who are more auto attack reliant are Udyr Olaf Shyvana (group B). Group A has better team fight potential while group B has better sticking power and dps.

Although Group B juggernaut can run attack speed/on hit very well they don't have the ability to avoid damage like the others you've mention. They can't afford to be too squishy. Unlike MasterYi Tryndamere Kayle they have ways to avoid damage whether it be alpha strike, meditate, intervention or undying rage. It allow them to be deceptively tanky with out building tank. Group B juggernaunt doen't have anything like that. Also they have more "mobility" then group B

Genuwhine361 votes

Well those champions arent brusiers where shyvanna is... Though I understand what you mean. Riot put her under bruiser which she is. Example my build and other challenger builds go something like bork cleaver randuins maw more tanky stats. Others go titanic (garbage) tri (garbage) or just tanky and titanic (garbage) when you want to just go and be a super clear machine till mid game and just ult into people. She is in a sense a safer master yi. Extremely good duelist that can win 1v1 1v2's.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

Well those champions arent brusiers where shyvanna is... Though I understand what you mean. Riot put her under bruiser which she is.

But she doesn't fill the role in a team that Garen, Darius and Illaoi do. Which are team fight monsters with massive burst windows and the power to quickly execute enemies, while remaining tanky.

She has the highly mobile, chase and run, attack speed, DPS, split push, chase a single target in a fight and DPS/burst it, gameplay that Yi, Udyr, Kayle and Trynd do.

Genuwhine362 votes

I wouldnt call garen a team fight monster lol. You are missing the point she builds damage having high base stats allowing her to as well build half tanky or only have two damage items. Aka a bruiser. Where as master yi cant really build tanky without his stats suffering as well as kayle trynd. And udyr doesnt fit the category at all lol.

also not to be a dick but your builds are terrible. Try blue smite ghost, attkspeed jungle item, bork,cleaver, randuins (or mr) GA, banshees, and mr,ad,swiftys depending. Mindlessly farm till 6 or unless a kill is super free. Get 6 and ult a pushing lane like botlane, keep farming or look to duel the jungler.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

I wouldnt call garen a team fight monster lol. You are missing the point she builds damage having high base stats allowing her to as well build half tanky or only have two damage items. Aka a bruiser. Where as master yi cant really build tanky without his stats suffering as well as kayle trynd. And udyr doesnt fit the category at all lol.

They are all still far more similar as champions than Shyvana to Darius. Darius is more of an AD caster, he, Garen and Illaoi all rely on abilities for burst windows. While Shyvana relies on basic attacks, attack speed and on hit.

Udyr is very much like Shyvana. Both build attack/move speed. Both benefit from on hit. Both are fast and attack fast. Both are good split pushers. Both use to use devourer. Both are good duelists. Both are renown for clear times. Both use to be counter jungle gods. Both build semi tank. Both are have far more in common with Yi, Trynd and Kayle than they do with Darius, Illaoi and Garen. Another champion similar, but not as much, to them is Olaf.

Genuwhine361 votes

what? shyvanna is not like vayne or a kogmaw that rely on autos. She is like a quinn that is pretty spell reliant. You cant just walk into a fight as someone like shyvanna and expect to do anything without pressing a button. Just like darius, just like quinn. I think you just actually have no idea what you are talking about xD. And ive been playing consistently for about 4 and a half years now so I would take my word for it lol.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

what? shyvanna is not like vayne or a kogmaw that rely on autos. She is like a quinn that is pretty spell reliant. You cant just walk into a fight as someone like shyvanna and expect to do anything without pressing a button. Just like darius, just like quinn. I think you just actually have no idea what you are talking about xD. And ive been playing consistently for about 4 and a half years now so I would take my word for it lol.

You don't know the difference between a DPS champion and an AD caster... So your years mean nothing. For example, Yi is a DPS champion, yes he uses his abilities, but his power is from basic attacks. Pantheon can basic attack, but his power comes from his abilities, so he is an AD caster...

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

I wouldnt call garen a team fight monster lol. You are missing the point she builds damage having high base stats allowing her to as well build half tanky or only have two damage items. Aka a bruiser. Where as master yi cant really build tanky without his stats suffering as well as kayle trynd. And udyr doesnt fit the category at all lol.

also not to be a dick but your builds are terrible. Try blue smite ghost, attkspeed jungle item, bork,cleaver, randuins (or mr) GA, banshees, and mr,ad,swiftys depending. Mindlessly farm till 6 or unless a kill is super free. Get 6 and ult a pushing lane like botlane, keep farming or look to duel the jungler.

Wait... you are building Cleaver on a champion who does about 50%+ magic damage? She has on hit %HP magic damage, ranged harass magic damage, on hit flat magic damage, AoE burn magic damage, and ult burst magic damage...

http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/6-17-shyvana-jungle-total-guide-the-most-in-depth-427599 Good place to start for Shyvana.

You may do well in ranked in general. But your Shyvana win rate in ranked is 41%. I suggest sticking to Tahm Kench and Gangplank. If you think Shyvana should build a Black Cleaver. Even a Wit's End is a better choice for her, as she deals so much magic damage, and it works as her MR item.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR2 votes

If you build a damage item or two you typically do around 60% physical 40% magic in my experience, rather than 50/50, but I do agree cleaver isn't a good item on her.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

If you build a damage item or two you typically do around 60% physical 40% magic in my experience, rather than 50/50, but I do agree cleaver isn't a good item on her.

Depends on the specific game. If running Wit's End you will get a lot of magic damage, if running titan or blade more physical. But yes.

Skia Asteri1 votes

{quoted}

If you build a damage item or two you typically do around 60% physical 40% magic in my experience, rather than 50/50, but I do agree cleaver isn't a good item on her.

The breaking point if you use the popular jungle damage items of item 1419 item 3748 is if you through fervor of battle on top of those. Or if the other team is stacking lots of MR relative to armor.

Erockandroll2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b5xE0qyJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-19T07:30:04.561+0000)

But she doesn't fill the role in a team that Garen, Darius and Illaoi do. Which are team fight monsters with massive burst windows and the power to quickly execute enemies, while remaining tanky.

She has the highly mobile, chase and run, attack speed, DPS, split push, chase a single target in a fight and DPS/burst it, gameplay that Yi, Udyr, Kayle and Trynd do.

I don't remember when Shyv got Classified as a Juggernaut. I thought that Riot said that she was a diver. But since they are both fighter classes, it would make sense if their was at least some cross over. The main component of a Juggernaut that I don't see in Shyvana's kit is sustain. Most Juggernauts have built in sustain. (Darius Q, Garen passive, Mundo everything, Olaf W, Udyr W)

She has a strong engage tool in her Ult. Which offer her more CC and Mobility than what most Juggernauts have. But since it's only on her ult, it's less reliable than many diver classes. (Hecarim and Vi both have engage on their ult, and a general ability) Though some Juggernauts could have diver like qualities when played right. (Think Olaf when you combined Ghost and Ragnarok, you can basically catch enemy squishies with little ability to actually stop him.)

What I don't think she is, is a skirmisher. Unlike Tryndamire, Yi or Yasuo, She doesn't have the offensive scaling needed to me an effective Melee ADC. She does have effective scaling with defensive itemization.

I think Divers are kinda an "out of meta" role right now, and they are not well defined. They don't completely burst down squishy targets. (like an Assassin) But their engage isn't always super reliable at setting up a good team fight. (Like a Tank/Vanguard) Their ability to engage falls some where in between. And how useful is that really?

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

if you want to get the most out of her dragon build 8 warmogs. im telling you it works every time.

Skia Asteri1 votes

The key terms Riot gave out to define juggernauts were: powerful, durable, immobile and melee.

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