Ideas for Garen to make him not useless: Permanent buffs for killing villains + Infight healing

chipndip1··4 votes·773 views

As Garen is now, he's overshadowed by Darius, who can do his job up to 5 times. He's also overshadowed by Illaoi, who has huge, repeated, aoe burst. He's even overshadowed by Nasus, who eventually scales to the point where his Q is basically a Garen ult's worth of damage every 2 seconds. Garen needs something to make him useful given his current kit, so give him some benefit, either offensive or defensive, for being the hero and slaying villains. This whole "1% max hp true damage per hit" thing isn't really...impressive, and his ult is, well, his ult, but he needs more to him than that. Other juggernaut picks are useful outside of slamming R. Garen isn't, but he could be.

Also, his passive sucks for a juggernaut, and so does his W. Juggernauts don't rely on infight defenses. They rely on infight healing. Voli auto-heals when his health gets low. Darius hits people with his axe and heals for hitting more enemies. Illaoi heals when tentacles hit enemies. Mundo has massive regen on his ult. Nasus has spell vamp. Trundle heals from people dying around him, saps health from ulted targets, and can increase healing by 20% by using W. Even Olaf has some on W. What does Garen have? "If you stop fighting for 5 seconds, you'll gradually regen". This passive is outdated for what Garen's meant to be doing. He needs infight healing, not some off-brand Warmog's or a lil padding from W.

21 Comments

chipndip12 votes

Alright, let's put it like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/6055a6096468accb93f2b72bdf8e1353.png

https://i.gyazo.com/7d3c901c3b2ba0827c6bb101829faae1.png

Garen has an issue with being a shit champ when you leave Bronze. Why is that? Because HE DOESN'T DO ANYTHING USEFUL + HE CAN'T STAY IN A FIGHT. Other jugs have some infight healing option to keep them in the fray even when their health is low. Garen doesn't. He has to leave the fight and come back. That isn't useful. Change either his passive or his W to something that heals him and make his villain passive more impactful on Garen's overall success to better carve out a game play objective for Garen and to give him the tools to achieve that end. If we're just concerned with dunking one guy, almost any other juggernaut can do that. That isn't a strategically valuable niche.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

Alright, let's put it like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/6055a6096468accb93f2b72bdf8e1353.png

https://i.gyazo.com/7d3c901c3b2ba0827c6bb101829faae1.png

Garen has an issue with being a shit champ when you leave Bronze. Why is that? Because HE DOESN'T DO ANYTHING USEFUL + HE CAN'T STAY IN A FIGHT. Other jugs have some infight healing option to keep them in the fray even when their health is low. Garen doesn't. He has to leave the fight and come back. That isn't useful. Change either his passive or his W to something that heals him and make his villain passive more impactful on Garen's overall success to better carve out a game play objective for Garen and to give him the tools to achieve that end. If we're just concerned with dunking one guy, almost any other juggernaut can do that. That isn't a strategically valuable niche.

cough cough cough life steal cough cough cough

Sightless663 votes

What? Lifesteal? What does that have to do with what OP said? Are you suggesting that Garen should build lifesteal?

Seriously, I don't get it. Is this just supposed to be a humorous non-sequitur?

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

What? Lifesteal? What does that have to do with what OP said? Are you suggesting Garen build lifesteal?

No, but he said that he can't heal himself in a fight, so I suggested that if he wants to heal himself during fight he should buy Life Steal

Sightless662 votes

I mean, I guess he technically could, but that's a really, really bad idea for Garen. He shouldn't be buying lifesteal. It's not even remotely close to viable.

Garen doesn't have access to in-fight sustain that doesn't suck dick. I think that's a pretty fair statement. It doesn't mean that he needs buffs or changes, but it is still an accurate statement.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Garen's kit prevents him from lifestealing for extended periods of time. It's not even close to a viable option.

chipndip15 votes

Garen doesn't have life steal in his kit, and even if he built it, other jugs have some means of healing IN THEIR KITS + they can build it too. You're not negating the point by meme'ing and joking about it. You're just perpetuating the stereotype of this board.

S0kaX1 votes

{quoted}

Garen doesn't have life steal in his kit, and even if he built it, other jugs have some means of healing IN THEIR KITS + they can build it too. You're not negating the point by meme'ing and joking about it. You're just perpetuating the stereotype of this board.

No, you're the stereotype of bronze

Big Lincoln2 votes

garen's not meant to sit in the fight like the other juggernauts though, he's more hit-and-run. the two best teamfighters Darius Illaoi need a lot more set-up than Garen, to compensate

generally he wants to go in, dump his QE damage on someone, then back off and flank them again after he heals up. I think his kit pulls it off well; it's just that because that actual assassins do this job much faster and more reliably, he's not really needed at all

i wouldn't be opposed to him having a new niche, but he does have his own unique use among the juggernauts

chipndip11 votes

But juggernauts don't hit-and-run or skirmish. The point of juggernauts is that they slam into the enemy team and rip them apart while soaking up the enemy team's damage. If Garen's played as a "hit and run" champ, then the fundamentals of his kit need to be changed as well, because that's not what juggernauts do. Especially since it takes 5 seconds for Garen to heal. By then most LoL team fights are over anyway. Like, do you honestly think your front liner should just "leave the fight" for a good 10 seconds to heal while your back line is dying? The slow acting passive is a waste of Garen's power budget.

Big Lincoln1 votes

right, I agree with you he ought to change, I'm just saying that's how I think he's best played at the moment, and I don't know if he can do something that Darius and Illaoi don't already do in teamfights, or that Yorick already does with splitpushing.

Garen is probably due for a rework just by how one-dimensional he is. I think that since the other starter champs have all gotten larger reworks Annie Ryze Ashe he's due for one eventually

chipndip11 votes

Any time I try to start a conversation on this...or really anything on G&B, I get downvoted regardless of what I say, anyway. Just nice to know someone's listening.

Big Lincoln2 votes

boards isn't really the most constructive place; upvote/downvote system is a cancer to any reasonable discussion and I hate any forum where it's present

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b4EAJrvt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-25T17:19:04.113+0000)

garen's not meant to sit in the fight like the other juggernauts though, he's more hit-and-run. the two best teamfighters Darius Illaoi need a lot more set-up than Garen, to compensate

generally he wants to go in, dump his QE damage on someone, then back off and flank them again after he heals up. I think his kit pulls it off well; it's just that because that actual assassins do this job much faster and more reliably, he's not really needed at all

i wouldn't be opposed to him having a new niche, but he does have his own unique use among the juggernauts

I dont mind uniqueness but when a juggernaut has a passive that is geared towards assassin/diver gameplay and not juggernaut gameplay then there is a problem.

Umbre0n1 votes

Illaoi needs set up? All she has to do in a team fight and ult? I would say that is like the least amount of set up. i would say that is easier.

Big Lincoln2 votes

optimal play with Illaoi to is to get 5 people in her ult + a spirit pulled and then popped ASAP to maximize tentacle spawns

not to mention having some tentacles already out

it's pretty hard to get the best case Illaoi play with her ult, most people don't clump that close with her on the other team

Alutrosity1 votes

Garen is a skirmishing tank. On the flipside, a lot of people hate sustain tanks because they have a crapton of defensive power, fighting power, and the ability to heal what little damage squishies are able to do them through their defensive stats.

I play sustain champions all the time, but even I can understand the frustration that comes with having to deal with that shit, whenever I decide to play a squishy champ.

chipndip11 votes

All juggernauts have some means of strong infight sustain except Garen. With this said, Garen's "miraculously" one of the worst champs in the entire game, let alone one of the worst (if not the worst) juggernauts to master. Something's wrong with him and I think it's time for people to stop making excuses.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

one one hand, id agree with you op.

the one thing garen dosnt have, that other juggernauts do have is some form of in combat sustain, that just lets them heal through the pain.

the problem is, that garens threat range is short even for a juggernaut. he doesnt have any form of ability that extends past his auto attack range. so he relies on his current passive as a safety net to survive in lane aginst poke.

chipndip11 votes

I'm trying to think of a juggernaut that doesn't have something that reaches past their standard range and I just can't. I guess Garen's E has extended range but given how it's used (after the dunk) I don't think it really counts...

Like holy shit I can't think of one. I HONESTLY CAN'T. Even Volibear can chain lightning to multiple enemies or roar to slow people around him.

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