Heimerdinger Turret Health Change

ll League God ll··3 votes·1,843 views

As we shift into 6.6, and the game constantly evolves, I feel its time to take a look at the main mechanic of our main mechanic :-)

Heimerdinger needs some love, but not the typical buff / nerf kind of love

His turrets need a fix on the style with which they currently sit in

His turrets should in my opinion be moved over to HIT based health bar from the current HEALTH based health bar.

What this would mean is that instead of HP scaling off AP ( almost everyone 1 shots his turrets in their current state ) his turrets would be granted hit bars much like wards and zyras plants.

Giving each turret 2-3 hits based on level to take them out would make his laning stronger, but still make solid counter picks able to deal with him with relative ease. Turrets being 1 shottable negates his ability for zone control like he is intended.

I feel like this is a healthy choice for heimer, and one that would bring him back into the game and get him to see more play as the true zone controlling brainiac that he is suppose to be

21 Comments

Veraska3 votes

This would be nice for teamfights but it'd make him pretty overpowered given how strong his lane phase is

Stacona2 votes

I was about to make a post, but I just do it here:

Heimerdinger Turrets: Normal: 3(+1 per 125 AP) hits from a health system; this prevents his turrets from being one shot allowing guaranteed a little bit of up time for they provide their sustain damage (they are not bursty and the beam does not come in to much later after being built, also the beam is dodge-able) Ultimate: 10(+1 per 50AP) hits from a health system (Yes, it is an ultimate and a gigantic turret so it should be a lot tankier than the others, also it is duration based and not unlimited like the normal turrets) Epic Monsters deal 2 hits and Turret shots deal 3 hits; champion basic attacks deal 1 hit and other damage from abilities and minions vary (similar to Zyra's plants)

Concussion Grenade (E): Total area size increase by 50% of what it is currently, stun and slow, without ultimate his stun is near impossible to land because the AoE is so small and its on a long cooldown as well; this is an ability that needs some lovings.

GigglingAngel2 votes

{quoted}

I was about to make a post, but I just do it here:

Concussion Grenade (E): Total area size increase by 50% of what it is currently, stun and slow, without ultimate his stun is near impossible to land because the AoE is so small and its on a long cooldown as well; this is an ability that needs some lovings.

Heimer's E is not meant to be easy to land at long range (unless you're being chased, at which point choreographing the hit becomes a lot easier). The stun is meant for when people rush into Heimer's zone, because the blast goes off much quicker the closer Heimer throws it to himself.

Currently, Heimer's E fairly compliments his kit of being a zone mage, and if you find yourself having problems landing an E, it's because you're using it at points you aren't really supposed to ... or you're just not good at the skillshot.

Basically, the E is meant far more as an escape/overextended-ensnare-punish tool than a chase/stun ability. The long cooldown further proves that this ability is one that should be saved until you need it, similar to Flash. Try using it more for when enemies get real close to you rather than when they are far away.

Stacona2 votes

It wouldn't be easy to land, it be as difficult as a nami bubble with a range increase, the problem right now is that it is near impossible to land the stun without using the bigger AoE of his ultimate stun

GigglingAngel2 votes

{quoted}

It wouldn't be easy to land, it be as difficult as a nami bubble with a range increase, the problem right now is that it is near impossible to land the stun without using the bigger AoE of his ultimate stun

It's easy enough for me to land, and Heimer's E is faster than Nami's bubble. So if I'm able to do it just fine, what's your problem?

DJ Katarina1 votes

No. Heimers turrets are fine. His lane phase is fine, too. Not exactly fair if you were to have 3 or so unkillable turrets in lane.

Laning vs heimer is already a big enough headache.

Stacona1 votes

They wouldn't be unkillable, people can kill Zyra plants on a hit based system

DJ Katarina1 votes

Difference is zyras plants dont melt your hp in 2 seconds flat. Heimers lane phase is already OP. Quit fishing for unneeded buffs and L2P

Stacona1 votes

Zyra's plants deal a lot more damage than heimer turrets

DJ Katarina1 votes

{quoted}

Zyra's plants deal a lot more damage than heimer turrets

Zyra's plants also don't stay around anywhere near as long as Heimers turrets.

Apples to oranges.

Stacona1 votes

one just has waaay more range and another slows targets down while dealing more damage, which is why you see more Zyra play than heimer play because you can reliably rely on plants for damage output where as turrets get one shot

You are also being super short sighted, more than likely if the turrets have some balance issues we can adjust their values like less base more ratio so its tuned better for the late game and less early game power

ll League God ll1 votes

{quoted}

No. Heimers turrets are fine. His lane phase is fine, too. Not exactly fair if you were to have 3 or so unkillable turrets in lane.

Laning vs heimer is already a big enough headache.

i dont even play heimer... that doesnt mean he doesnt need to be fixed. League isnt about lane phase, its about mid to late game, and currently even playing against heimers is a joke. He needs improvement

DJ Katarina1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ll League God ll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3yXJlEq,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-03-23T18:08:35.762+0000)

i dont even play heimer... that doesnt mean he doesnt need to be fixed. League isnt about lane phase, its about mid to late game, and currently even playing against heimers is a joke. He needs improvement

Calling BS on that. Heimer has a strong AF lane phase, which leads to his opponent being weak mid/late because they have such an oppressive laner against them. Heimer is fine, l2p.

ll League God ll1 votes

{quoted}

Calling BS on that. Heimer has a strong AF lane phase, which leads to his opponent being weak mid/late because they have such an oppressive laner against them. Heimer is fine, l2p.

i play just fine... and i find heimer easy to play against... anyone with over 550 range, which is basically any ranged carry can smoke his turrets outside their attack range

you can " call bs " on anything you want, but thats just your opinion and not facts soo :-/

no one in the history of laning vs a heimer has ever come out weak mid to late game as a result of heimers laning unless they are bad.. Heimer by nature pushes lanes leaving him vulnerable to ganks by anyone with decent CC who can dodge his E. His zone control is actually alot weaker than you percieve

DJ Katarina1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ll League God ll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3yXJlEq,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-23T18:50:01.316+0000)

i play just fine... and i find heimer easy to play against... anyone with over 550 range, which is basically any ranged carry can smoke his turrets outside their attack range

you can " call bs " on anything you want, but thats just your opinion and not facts soo :-/

no one in the history of laning vs a heimer has ever come out weak mid to late game as a result of heimers laning unless they are bad.. Heimer by nature pushes lanes leaving him vulnerable to ganks by anyone with decent CC who can dodge his E. His zone control is actually alot weaker than you percieve

Here's just a few mid laners that have more than troublesome lane phases vs heimer:

Zed Katarina Zyra Galio Azir Jayce Karma Xerath Ziggs Yasuo Lux Quinn Malzahar Veigar Lulu

And since hes taken top lane as well....

Nunu Mordekaiser Zac Singed Kennan Olaf Gangplank Sion Illaoi Trundle Aatrox Graves Cho'gath Gnar Irelia Vladimir Akali Ekko Malphite Jarvan IV Renekton Shen Nasus Rammus

Seems to me like Heimer is fine, and you need to L2P.

http://champion.gg/champion/Heimerdinger

ll League God ll1 votes

{quoted}

Here's just a few mid laners that have more than troublesome lane phases vs heimer:

Zed Katarina Zyra Galio Azir Jayce Karma Xerath Ziggs Yasuo Lux Quinn Malzahar Veigar Lulu

And since hes taken top lane as well....

Nunu Mordekaiser Zac Singed Kennan Olaf Gangplank Sion Illaoi Trundle Aatrox Graves Cho'gath Gnar Irelia Vladimir Akali Ekko Malphite Jarvan IV Renekton Shen Nasus Rammus

Seems to me like Heimer is fine, and you need to L2P.

http://champion.gg/champion/Heimerdinger

i need to l2p because i never have issues against heimers? thats cute. Those stats are based off 2000 matches, which in the grand scheme of things considering the player base is so so so so tiny. If people are picking rammus into heimer... thats on them for making bad choices..

Maybe your stats are based off blind pick, in which case, again all a player has to do is play smart, and heimer can rarely touch them.

I also noticed your little link shows heimers most winning build is completely based around SPLIT PUSHING WITH ZZROT AND BANNER! not really supprised since most people dont realize how easy it is to stop a split push with those items, being blind to passive splitting isnt a solid reason that heimer doesnt need this change.

And honestly looking at your list of people who have troubles with heimer mid and top... seriously you cant be serious? I could literally take 90% of those champs from either list and outlane a heimer all day long.

You still arent addressing the reason WHY this isnt a good move for heimer... again, i dont play AS HEIMER, and i find him extremely EASY to play AGAINST. Bring up valid arguments instead of childish insults with stat links that literally prove nothing

DJ Katarina1 votes

It's not a childish insult because you seem to forget that a LOT of people are using that strategy to dominate a lane WITH HIS TURRETS. Again. L2P

ll League God ll1 votes

{quoted}

It's not a childish insult because you seem to forget that a LOT of people are using that strategy to dominate a lane WITH HIS TURRETS. Again. L2P

sadly i cant take you seriously anymore because you just mentioned heimer is a dominant laner, and listed a majority of champs who can smack heimer all day long

Sorry bud but if youre rushing zzrot with heimer, chances are youre doing nothing more than sitting behind a turret wall and passively farming, and any half decent player can outfarm a heimer all day long.

It would take you easily till 20 minutes to build zzrot / banner, and by that point anyone with half a mind would have either counter bought those items, or just laughed as they free farmed vs heimer

DJ Katarina1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ll League God ll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b3yXJlEq,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-23T20:09:51.630+0000)

sadly i cant take you seriously anymore because you just mentioned heimer is a dominant laner, and listed a majority of champs who can smack heimer all day long

Sorry bud but if youre rushing zzrot with heimer, chances are youre doing nothing more than sitting behind a turret wall and passively farming, and any half decent player can outfarm a heimer all day long.

It would take you easily till 20 minutes to build zzrot / banner, and by that point anyone with half a mind would have either counter bought those items, or just laughed as they free farmed vs heimer

That's good because I can't take you seriously because you're a Heimer main.

L2P. Maybe get some better runes. You're asking for buffs that would make heimer 100% pick or ban, there needs to be counterplay, which there is barely any of.

ll League God ll1 votes

{quoted}

That's good because I can't take you seriously because you're a Heimer main.

L2P. Maybe get some better runes. You're asking for buffs that would make heimer 100% pick or ban, there needs to be counterplay, which there is barely any of.

heimer main, thats funny.. nah, i main twitch..

adjustments arent buffs either, bruisers can already tank turrets with proper builds such is the case of champs like renekton, others ignore them entirely like singed, and range can easily out play heimer turrets especially pre lvl 12, when the cooldown between turrets is significantly more than the time it takes to wipe them out.

As a twitch main i have also spoken up about the need for pink wards after full builds or all item slots filled up which directly helps counter... you guessed it! my main twitch.

Im sorry that you feel like every player wants to make their mains, or what you assume are other players main more OP, i simply want balance, and a feeling of cohesion between champions where there is a more level playing field.

But you already knew that.

P.S. Incase you didnt know, my mains ult lets him hit even map towers outside their range, heimer towers are a joke to me

Miror B1 votes

See, I'd love to see him get an AP bonus based on his proximity to turrets (if he stood near 1 turret, he'd get +10% AP, stood near 2 and it'd be +15% and near 3 would be +25%). Then it'd give him a bit of a "high risk, high reward" style as standing in the center of the turrets would make him highly cc-succeptable.

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