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yasuo has a difficulty curve more comparable to master yi than any other "hard" champion

resumed··33 votes·4,021 views

important: this thread uses global statistics from every elo. this isnt some plat+ na only garbage. also, worldwide, yasuo is still built full crit in the midlane for most of his games and still has a positive winrate (51%). so no, this isn't "just" the bruiser build inflating his winrate.

since yasuo blew up everyon's talking about how such a "difficult" champion having such a high winrate is crazy. but the statistics have never supported yasuo being a high difficulty champion. ever.

first we compare him to master yi. Yasuo http://image.prntscr.com/image/3f0978930c8d41a38bee652fe55efa37.png MasterYi http://image.prntscr.com/image/5faa8c8ecec44d76aea26ca56a79ab9b.png

master yi actually has a lower winrate for first time players. whoa!

now lets compare it to other champions considered difficult by the community Bard http://image.prntscr.com/image/2341b2ad4fe042bd8689790637fe7674.png Azir http://image.prntscr.com/image/b2fee5e034a340068e5922ecd6e57050.png Thresh http://image.prntscr.com/image/fd3d74e084dd47aea4862d75ccbc7011.png Vayne http://image.prntscr.com/image/16d768ea1968487fbab1cbdf42961eff.png LeeSin http://image.prntscr.com/image/9623656884364611b7beb4ba54ef2b5a.png Nidalee http://image.prntscr.com/image/96b41deb040e4227afe10b35fd871d9b.png

do you get the idea yet? despite yasuo being the most played champion in the world, his winrate when people first start out with him is 46%, whereas other high difficulty champions are usually around 42%.

yasuo has a very average skill requirement to play, but he has a very high skill ceiling, allowing people who master him to simply walk all over everyone. people just think he's difficult to play because he's flashy and frustrating to play against. that's really it.

i personally think yasuo's difficulty curve severely limits counterplay and the better the yasuo player the more frustrated his opponents are

#stopyasmainsfromthinkingwhattheyredoingishard2k16

source for graphs: http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/

66 Comments

TyroneWatermelon11 votes

its 2016 and people still think Yasuo is hard to play?

JavelinJoe11 votes

#stopyasmainsfromthinkingwhattheyredoingishard2k16 lol true this

Eedat9 votes

One objection I have for this is those graphs aren't to the same scale

For example:

Yasuo's graph covers a 10% spread

MasterYi's graph covers a 12.5% spread

Nidalee 's graph covers a 20% spread

Etc.

resumed7 votes

the scale of the graph doesn't change the numbers displayed by the graph

thanks

Eedat2 votes

Correct, but it affects the curve of the graph

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

the scale of the graph doesn't change the numbers displayed by the graph

thanks

It does change your ability to compare the graphs visually, though.

resumed1 votes

shockingly the numbers are whats important and what you should be comparing

visuals are often intentionally skewed to mislead

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

The average person can understand visuals much more easily than the actual numbers. Readability is a huge part of providing any graph, otherwise you might as well just list data points. Ease of visualization is the primary purpose of using a graph as opposed to something else, and readability is a big part of that.

resumed1 votes

graphs are one of the visuals that are most often skewed to mislead

when looking at ANY graph it's important to know exactly what you're looking at through labels numbers etc

this is not limited to this thread and i have no control over people paying attention when they look at a graph

all i can do is jeer them when they say something so completely and utterly wrong because they didn't actually bother to think while reading

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

I understand and agree that they are often misused, but that doesn't mean you should misuse them too. It's very possible to mislead with graphs, but you're being accidentally misleading with the ones you've posted. People should read them carefully, but they don't, and if you want to get your point across it's best to help them, even if you would normally sneer down upon such lesser beings for not giving it more than a brief glance in their busy lives. People abusing graphs elsewhere is no excuse for having poor readability here.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

shockingly the numbers are whats important and what you should be comparing

If the visuals should be ignored and we should focus on the numbers, just give a spreadsheet with the numbers.

visuals are often intentionally skewed to mislead

Yes, including this post (the misleading part; I dunno if it's intentional). Please don't do that.

Enloct1 votes

But...the graph expands to meet the spread of the data. Which happens to be the topic being discussed.

BloodyTompon9 votes

That's very crude data. There's a reason people split hairs and demographics. It gives a much better idea of what is going on. Ignoring the sites collection of the this data (which I'm skeptical is reliable, although it looks much more likely than champion.gg), you're taking the conclusion a bit further than the data warrants due to how general and crude it is.

First time players having a higher win rate than others in general does not mean Yas has an easy learning curve (nor Yi for that matter). It's actually quite difficult to determine the learning curve precisely because of your inclusion of lower MMR. The stats are heavily slanted towards that group. Unfortunately win rate, pick rates and ban rates are also functions of MMR, sometimes markedly so e.g., Garen, which is why you're taking the conclusions too far. You might think that it's 'bullshit' that the balance is often expressed in plat+, but there are good reasons for that.

resumed1 votes

it's highly underrated peice of information that yasuo is the single most played champion in the world

if yasuo was as hard as he is made out to be, his winrate over games played curve would be similar to other highly played difficult champions. but it's not.

i've mentioned this in a previous post in this thread, but three champions in the presented graphs were included for this specific reason Thresh Vayne and LeeSin are all extremely popular champions. and by extremely popular, i mean they often take up spots to be the top 5 most played champions.

compare theirs to his, you can see that his is, as i said in the op, different.

and if you don't know where i got the information; read the thread before you post

2yordles1cupcake7 votes

We know Yas is the new Riven.

Adriqnohee8 votes

Riven is much harder.

Ralanr3 votes

Both have the problem of not needing to be good to stomp.

cinomenapplebae1 votes

TRIGGGERD

https://i.gyazo.com/938172dd7dca4f223aabd1f3aa8c19ac.png

Ralanr1 votes

I'm not saying you can't be awesome with Riven.

crippler381 votes

{quoted}

TRIGGGERD

https://i.gyazo.com/938172dd7dca4f223aabd1f3aa8c19ac.png

*picks Fiddlesticks *

enjoy your minimum 4 seconds of no abilities.

LegacyDAP1 votes

I pretty much have to agree with this one.

LadyRenly6 votes

what is so hard about spamming your manaless, virtually no cd abilities? If you don't play like a potato, it's not hard to never do bad. Yasuo was designed to give you so many crutches. You just need to not overextend and buy a pink ward, and wait for your shield to come back before going in for another trade. Is pressing Q and E really considered high skillcap? I am not trying to rag on the champion, but the way people talk about him you would think playing Yasuo is like trying to solve a calculus equation or something.

Akali is SO HOT6 votes

That graph is inflated because Yasuo is currently broken freelo

resumed7 votes

this site uses data from now to 2014

AHeroNamedHawke6 votes

{quoted}

this site uses data from now to 2014

And the data presented is for patch 6.17

You know, the patch where he was severely overbuffed and utilizing a bruiser build that removes all skill required to play him?

resumed7 votes

if you had read literally the 2nd sentence of the post, you wouldn't be making that reply

yasuo is still played mid lane full crit in the majority of his games since the patch

usually i say "read the thread before you reply" but you didn't even get to the second sentence before you scoured the comments desperately trying to prove someone wrong

lol

AHeroNamedHawke6 votes

{quoted}

if you had read literally the 2nd sentence of the post, you wouldn't be making that reply

yasuo is still played mid lane full crit in the majority of his games since the patch

usually i say "read the thread before you reply" but you didn't even get to the second sentence before you scoured the comments desperately trying to prove someone wrong

lol

His top lane build has an 11% pick rate with a 55% win rate.

His mid lane has an 8% pick rate with a 53% win rate.

The only Elo that remotely supports your claim is bronze/silver, two levels that don't matter at all. Why? Because A) This game isn't balanced around low Elo and B) a 51% win rate is almost nothing.

The higher you go in Elo, the more and more he's played top over mid, and the higher his win rate gets. Because the bruiser build is broken. The bug was enough of a buff to make him strong in mid lane as well, but no one has cared about Ahri holding the same win rate with a much higher pick rate for the last year.

You're literally only bringing this up now because the data barely supports your poor understanding of statistics for 1 patch.

resumed5 votes

tldr & derailing

not reading or replying anymore

statelesskiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b2TTrrZl,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-05T05:11:59.491+0000)

His top lane build has an 11% pick rate with a 55% win rate.

His mid lane has an 8% pick rate with a 53% win rate.

is that globally or just one specific region?

AHeroNamedHawke2 votes

{quoted}

is that globally or just one specific region?

Champion.gg uses game data from Platinum to Challenger from NA, EUW, EUNE and Korea for the current patch

Teslyn2 votes

Currently Yasuo has a bug in him that is giving him more damage output than is actually intended. his win rate is inflated because of it. dont know when riot will fix this BS 400-700 additional damage BS.

mack91121 votes

They have already said when

Matezoide1 votes

Master Yi

Mastery

HOLY SHIT

Only Play Darius1 votes

You know Master Yi is harder to play than people are willing to give credit for, especially now that Devourer, Rageblade, Titanic, and most of the stuff that broke him earlier this season has either been nerfed or removed.

IPromiseTomorrow1 votes

I think you mean harder to master than play. Playing him at his biggest potential does take skill.

crippler381 votes

when master yi actually dodges stuff with his alpha and blocks autos with his w to cancel his own auto animation is soooo annoying.

LaserDeathBlade1 votes

Lol @ Lee SIn capping out at 50% winrate

Meanwhile everybody and their mom still picks him

resumed1 votes

thats what we should expect from all extremely popular high difficulty champions. a lot of people really do forget how important the fact that yasuo is the most played champion in the world. given how difficult people say he is, a winrate anywhere near 50% should tell you that he's completely broken

but he's not that hard to play, as statistically proven by anyone who bothered to check

Stars Shaper1 votes

In this meta this is probably true, expecially since Tank Yasuo has recieved nerfs only recently.

Just for the sake of statistics and analysis I'd like to see different seasons graphs for the same champions.

FortisDominus1 votes

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/rengar/all

"all you do is press R and everyone dies" <------- league community BrokeBack

notmebuthim1 votes

His basic mechanics are simple. You Q stuff to deal damage ans stack up for tornado, you W shit you dont want to hit you, you E shit you want to kill or move to, and you press R when the gamw saya you can. Other then that its all thinking about what you gunna do.

President Swa1n1 votes

Isn't the shape of the graph more important than the starting win rate? And this night just be me and I don't want to be that guy who defies statistics, but I really don't see how Yasuo is easier than master yi

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Well that's what always happens when CertainlyT designs a champ. They always have to have as many tools to win as possible and only lose because of their player messing up (Or someone on their team feeding so much that they just get out statted by the enemy).

FrodoBagginses1 votes

Yasuo has the lowest "mastered" winrate of these champs

resumed3 votes

please actually look at the numbers before you start spewing garbage Yasuo - 55.9% MasterYi - 56% Bard -54% Azir - 54% Thresh - 52.5% Vayne - 52.9% LeeSin - 50.1% Nidalee - 56%

there u go and actually. i'd consider thresh vayne and lee's winrates to be HUGELY deflated because the top 5 most played champions in the world (in order) are currently including Yasuo Thresh Vayne LeeSin. i wonder if yasuo's is delfated too, given that he's played more than all of them?

yasuo makes the top 3 with yi and nidalee. how is that the "lowest"?

Apistol Shrimp1 votes

im such a racing driver, that i hit the apex on those curves

tXQbsPrjN51 votes

but mah micro

rtbf761092711 votes

"mathematical" proof that the boards can shitpost daily about how he always ults me way too often but the yasuo on my team shouldnt pick him we dont have a knockup and he needs to be banned every game but i also play against him every game and should be disabled

God Went MIA1 votes

I just started playing yasuo a lot this season and he's already the easiest champ for me to win with. If you lose lane, you farm and you can 1v5 late game If you win lane, you can 1v5 20 minutes in. Either way you can 1v5, and dodge most abilities with your E or W. You get a free shield with your ult, which is also CC that is not affected by tenacity.

Ya maybe it takes a little longer to master his mechanics than Tryndamere, but when his kits so incredibly overloaded, aswell as his damage, you can afford to make mistakes frequently and still carry the game. He's always been an overpowered champion that can scale too easily into late, or snowball incredibly fast. He just does too much.

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