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PSA: The meaning of a "Tank"

Bladerunner7777··10 votes·701 views

I've seen a few threads talking about how tanks seem "too squishy" , I thought I would share my own thoughts to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Being a Tank doesn't mean a champion that lasts X amount of seconds in a teamfight. There are different kinds of tanks similar to how there are different kinds of mages and fighters.

What most people like to think is that all tanks are "true tanks". A true tank is a champion that offers little damage, sustained cc in teamfights, and can withstand a ton of damage.

It's a problem when these champions can 1v1 carries (Example: Sunfire/Iceborn/Grasp Nautilus from a few patches back)

It's a problem when these champions get "shredded" in lategame teamfights by anything other than the ADC or hypercarries

Examples of true tanks would be:

  • Alistar
  • Braum
  • Leona
  • Shen
  • Sion
  • Maokai

What are not "true tanks"?

That leaves 2 other sub-classes of "tanks" left. Juggernauts and All-inners.

I'm sure most of you are familiar with Juggernauts: Durable immobile fighters that offer little to no cc but instead bring tons of damage and are hard to kill.

That leaves the "All-inners"

These champions usually blow all of their CC and spells in one rotation, their tankiness allows them to get off their CC without dying instantly. Unlike true tanks, these champions don't normally have abilities that help them stay in the middle of teamfights for extended periods of time.

It is okay for these champions to be able to burst carries

These champions often get shredded faster than "true tanks" because they sacrifice defensive abilities for damage

It is NOT okay for these champions to be unkillable, aka Cinderhulk meta

Examples of all-inning tanks would be:

  • Sejuani
  • Amumu
  • Malphite
  • Gnar
  • Zac

This is just my thoughts on the recent complaints of "squishy tanks". Some tanks are meant to absorb tons of damage and fight for extended periods and some are meant to get in, do their job, and get out (and then there are Juggernauts but I don't have much experience with them).

18 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

Wardens and Vanguards.

Bladerunner77772 votes

I don't think those are accurate enough descriptions when discussing "squishyness"

Leona is considered a Vanguard because she engages, Malphite is also considered a Vanguard because he engages.

But Leona is meant to deal little damage and instead lock down multiple opponents in extended fights with a short cd Q and E. Her Q, W, and E combined gives her a lot of sustained CC, tankiness to last in teamfights, and mobility to be all over the place. Champs like Leona (Naut, Maokai, etc) want to be in the middle of the fight disrupting as many enemies as possible, that's why they have tools to not get melted as quickly.

Meanwhile Malphite tries to get his ult off on as many people as possible. He has no sustained hard CC or defensive abilties but he makes up for it with damage.

TheSingularity1 votes

Mal only deals significant dmg with a roa or abyssal. That and leo is given high base dmg to compensate for an expected gold deficit as a support, which is why she's surprisingly strong top lane.

Tbh all tanks need a dmg reduction across the board and a jungle monster nerf to keep em viable. Won't deny that amumu and sej have been dealing too much dmg for too long

LordGeovanni2 votes

high what have you seen leona damage compared to solo laner damage

TheSingularity1 votes

Is that a question, an accusation of me being high or the request of a comparison?

Very Hard Engage2 votes

ima stop you right here.

a real tank, someone who was designed to be on the front lines and was meant to take damage in place of someone more valuable on your team, who is not a tank. these people have damage mitigation in kit, namely shields, absorptions, and percent reductions. any champion with those elements in their kit, has the capacity to be a front line and mitigate damage for their team, if they choose too.

malphite is a tank, his passive negates damage.

garen is a tank, he has percent damage reduction.

zac is a tank, he gets lots of health back throughout a fight, its the same logic behind mundo.

not a tank list, but build "tanky" because its the most effective build for them, not because they were meant to absorb damage for a teamAmumu AurelionSol Chogath Darius Gragas Gnar Hecarim Illaoi Nasus Nunu Volibear

"well gragas gets health back too" guess what, people pick gragas for his ult and stun, only, hate to break it to you but those abilities are overloaded and carry the champion.

Warmanreaper1 votes

Darius Garen C:

Tobias Brackner1 votes

I disagree with the concept of all-inners but yeah spread the knowledge.

TheSingularity1 votes

I wouldn't call zac un killable especially with all this tank shred present. Imo the tanks you described as all ining tanks can be both. I build all of them full tank but that's just me (gotta love 6K hp sej with no boots) Gnar didn't even use cinderhulk.

I think the issue stems from the fighter class and their ability to do a better job than tanks easier. That is: tank better with less items/no tank items (dead mans and xin is done), deal more dmg with less items. The diver subclass with champs like irelia, hec and jax able to build a single dmg item, out tank true tanks, out dps adcs and out burst mages. Diana does this with dmg/hp hybrid items. Why does a diana or irelia, last longer and deal more dmg than a full build 6K hp sejuani?

Most juggernauts are balanced and obey their immobility weakness, but darius and garen also do what divers do. They build cleaver into full tank, shred tanks, pop squishies, out tank most true tanks and their immobility is compensated for by 3 ms items in their common builds as well as cc/ms spells repectively.

Bladerunner77771 votes

Why does a diana or irelia, last longer and deal more dmg than a full build 6K hp sejuani?

that's a straight up lie, for Irelia at least. Diana on the other hand can reliably one-shot the squishies that deal the most damage to her and she normally has Zhonyas so it gives the illusion of "lasting long" in teamfights.

After the recent triforce buffs Hecarim finally found his place as an "all-inning" tank because now he can finally build Triforce > full tank. Before people were building Warriors instead of Cinderhulk and he was more like a diving fighter.

I didn't include Hec in the list because he is still kind of bordering the "all-in tank" and "diving fighter" line because he sacrifices good CC for more damage than usual (fear isn't as reliable as a knock up but it's still an AoE CC that's useful in teamfights). Also his "defensive ability" (W) is purely based on damage so he isn't really a true tank either. He's like a mix of everything and that's why I like him.

TheSingularity1 votes

So irelia with triforce, randuins, mercs, spirirt visage, dead mans and randuins/banshees. Won't out live and out damage a sejunai? Shes only got 1 less item that gives her hp.

As for hec, his w and spirit visage provide a very potent heal.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

actual tanks

Leona Braum TahmKench Amumu Alistar

primary tanks

Nautilus Sejuani Shen Volibear Maokai Rammus Zac

secondary tank that actually fills the tank role well anyways

Galio Thresh Taric

shitty tanks that aren't really tanks (and probably perform really well despite not being an actual tank)

DrMundo Chogath JarvanIV Singed Skarner Aatrox Garen Poppy Malphite Renekton MonkeyKing Shyvana Illaoi Hecarim Gnar Darius Nasus Vladimir Udyr Trundle

God of War Leona1 votes

tell that to riot they nerf all her tanks stats and her base damage in the last 2 years, to treat her like a support

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

who, Leona??

(looks at name...)

Okay maybe Leona

Leona is a tank, her kit is built to be a tank and nerfing her tank stats isn't going to stop this. She is now getting some fighter stuff but this is because tanks in mobas are a bit difficult to implement fairly.

Hibeki1 votes

I think you should actually look at what is a tank

A large, pressing threat that deflects small arms fire but a good panzer shot can put it out of commission. It needs attention immediately or it's slow rate of fire will destroy grouped infantry and buildings

This means that a "tank" champion should be an immediate threat that needs to reliably and surely get to where they want to go, once there, they have a second or two to do something, then they are out of commission.

Probably THE best example of this was pre nerf Olaf, He would be incredibly durable, and Ult Ghost means he was going to get where he wanted to go, then get evaporated.

The problem is a light breeze will knock over tanks in this meta, and shoving a pebble in front of them completely stops them

Erockandroll1 votes

They are talking about a Tank, more from the MMO definition, They are not talking about a main battle tank. (The only champ that was based of a main battle tank was Urgot, who's not even a tank class.)

And if you have champions as Balanced, You can't compare tank to an infantrymen. (That's apples to Oranges) If we compared all Champions to infantrymen, The tank class, would simply be the one wearing the most Armor. (and possibly carrying the heaviest ordnance)

One last nidpick, If a Tank deflects just about all small arms, but is taken out by the Anti tank rifle. Everyone and their mother will target the one carring the anti tank rifle. In league, that would promote the protect the carry comp. (And do you want the late game hypercarries dominating the meta again?)

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

They are talking about a Tank, more from the MMO definition, They are not talking about a main battle tank. (The only champ that was based of a main battle tank was Urgot, who's not even a tank class.)

And if you have champions as Balanced, You can't compare tank to an infantrymen. (That's apples to Oranges) If we compared all Champions to infantrymen, The tank class, would simply be the one wearing the most Armor. (and possibly carrying the heaviest ordnance)

One last nidpick, If a Tank deflects just about all small arms, but is taken out by the Anti tank rifle. Everyone and their mother will target the one carring the anti tank rifle. In league, that would promote the protect the carry comp. (And do you want the late game hypercarries dominating the meta again?)

Thats literally why they named it a 'tank'. The name 'tank' came from what we used AS TANKS. Otherwise they would not be called that. Like at all. It makes no sense in any other definition to not be named after that tank.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Juggernauts are fighters not tanks and Sejuani Amumu Malphite Gnar and Zac dont want extended fights and dont have tools to stay alive after their initial spell rotation you smoke better kush than my high school teachers and i want to know where you hideing it.

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