@Riot I'd like a straight answer on why Bronze players do not get a border

Great Muta··6 votes·1,486 views

Riot preaches fairness, treating people equally and rewarding people who play their game. But yet, come end of season time, Riot does not give a single fuck about half their player base in Bronze.

I get that Bronze is bad, but every other league in the game gets a border. Newsflash, Silver isn't really that good either. I watched my own MMR in placements go from S2> B2 in last two placement games due to intentional feeders. Meanwhile, I'm beating Gold players in Bronze and not getting extra MMR.

Not to mention that with DQ, the amount of people who are in leagues they don't deserve to be in has skyrocketed along with a host of other bullshit with Silver's playing Plat's and LCS players getting matched with Diamonds and solo players taking on 3 to 5 man groups.

By not giving out borders, it basically re-enforces the bullying that lower elo players face on a daily basis whether it be from pro's, the casters, the community and the game itself.

It comes as very surprising from a company that has tried to attack toxicity hard, but is engaging in it themselves.

And for the record, I reached Silver this season on my main.

40 Comments

Z Statistic3 votes

See Lyte? This is what you created. You couldn't have people just growing thicker skin and shittalking with people who used naughty words. It wasn't good enough to let people handle their own situations. You had to keep making the system more and more punitive for more and more ridiculous reasons. We couldn't have unranked people or wood tier; we had to bring down bronze so that it was the starting value. We had to make more rewards for every tier. We had to make unique rewards for everyone in all the division-tier combinations!

Now we have people like the OP saying they want another participation trophy beyond icons because they believe League is an Elo Marxist dichotomy of low elo vs high elo and they are trying to guilt-trip Riot into giving it to them.

Great Muta2 votes

The whole game is a participation medal. No one's rank means anything to people who don't play League and no one else but each individual person truly cares what rank anyone else reached. And the second you stop playing League, it won't even matter to you. I don't care what my CSGO rank is right now because the game was ruined to me and it's not important anymore.

Z Statistic1 votes

Michael Phelps' gold medals don't mean anything to me or anyone who doesn't care about the Olympics. Ergo by your logic, Olympic gold medals are just participation medals.

Great Muta1 votes

Michael Phelps got money and fame for his gold medal. You won't even get that unless you are a pro in League.

Z Statistic1 votes

No, he got money and fame for gitting gud and kicking ass. The gold medal itself only has value to him. Unless you melt it down, but then that implies that if Riot were to mail all the ranked rewards in the form of some monetary value, the status of the trophy would then change purely because it has a monetary value.

But then if everyone at the Olympics got a plastic medal just for showing up, it wouldn't be a participation trophy because each medal is worth $0.05. It would also imply that if the gold, silver, and bronze medals were made of plastic that the reward would be inherently worse.

Aptest1 votes

technically, everyone at the Olympics is getting a pretty nice plastic medal for showing up.

Great Muta1 votes

Pretty much everyone in the Olympics has an endorsement deal and got a college scholarship at minimum.

Challenger players for being the top 0.001% in the game? Border.

Great Muta1 votes

He got a free ride to college. He's gotten free trips to the Olympics. He's gotten endorsements. He's gotten medals. He can get any girl he wants and he's fucking rich. Oh and he had a TV show and everyone in the world knows him.

LOL Challenger level player? He's a border bud.

macdshifty1 votes

Have to point out the non sequitur, how people who don't play league view other's ranks is irrelevant to if the game gives you enough participation awards. I don't understand what you have an issue with. -You originally state that you feel bronze is left out by not getting a participation award. -Someone replies with the opinion bronze doesn't deserve it. -You then make a statement that runs counter to your original statement "The whole game is a participation medal."

Also your main argument is flawed in that you assert Riot believes all players should be rewarded equally for playing the game, whereas Riot's actual values are to reward players based off of merit, as well as commitment, and gives rewards in both facets. Since boarders are rewarded based on merit, "Riot does not give a single fuck about half their player base in Bronze." is not a logical conclusion. Silver not being much better than bronze is an opinion, and more importantly, irrelevant.

Great Muta2 votes

Have to point out the non sequitur, how people who don't play league view other's ranks is irrelevant to if the game gives you enough participation awards.

No one cares what your rank is besides you. You don't want a bronze border anyway, so it shouldn't matter.

Also your main argument is flawed in that you assert Riot believes all players should be rewarded equally for playing the game, whereas Riot's actual values are to reward players based off of merit, as well as commitment, and gives rewards in both facets

Getting boosted is a merit for sure. Ranked was a joke this season and Victorious Shaco should have been the reward for reaching gold since it was a clown fiesta.

Silver not being much better than bronze is an opinion, and more importantly, irrelevant.

It's a fact as I play Silvers in Bronze all the time.

It's fine if you don't agree. But I really have better things to do than flame with you, so unless you have something different to say, you can move along.

macdshifty1 votes

Presenting an argument and providing evidence why your argument is invalid is not flaming. It's fine if you don't agree or don't understand but I personally would have left it at giving your responses to my points instead of wrongfully accusing me of personally attacking you. As for your responses, they again do not hold water.

-"No one cares what your rank is besides you. You don't want a bronze border anyway, so it shouldn't matter." Again, this does not pertain to 'why riot doesn't give out bronze boarders'. You claimed that by not giving out boarders Riot is reinforcing bullying low elo players, I point out that conclusion does not follow its premise because boarders are a merit based reward. Whether or not anyone cares what rank you are has nothing to do with this point.

-"Getting boosted is a merit for sure. Ranked was a joke this season" While I would agree this statement is true it does not invalidate either Riot's philosophy on merit based rewards or my argument that you asserted Riot believes something, that it does not. The argument Riot screwed up ranked this year is different from Riot should make its merit based rewards participation rewards.

-"It's a fact as I play Silvers in Bronze all the time." Either you do not know, or do not care, what a fact is.

Great Muta1 votes

Give it up dude. You aren't Jean Luc Picard and I don't know what Star Trek episode you got some of your words from but you sound ridiculous.

macdshifty1 votes

It's sub-optimal how little you care for logically formed arguments. I fear the delta between what I'm asking you to comprehend and you are capable of comprehending is insurmountable. Love me some Picard, he's one of the good guy characters (I've never actually seen an episode of ST but one can assume). Please inform me which word was just too troublesome for you so I may reverse my approach on explaining such things. Have a continued blissful existence.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I think you're linking two very different things together. The behavorial system had nothing to do with the ranked ladder.

If people honestly have a problem with keeping their speech clean then that's their problem.

And stop blaming things on Lyte, jeez. Its because of people doing crap like what you are describing that Lyte made those changes in the first place, so the rest of us don't have to deal with it.

Z Statistic1 votes

If people want to talk with people civilly, then they should be respectful. We agree. I don't particularly care to talk to someone who i calling every slur in the book to be 8/8 edgy m8.

But you've shifted your focus entirely. You've taken for granted that people are completely intolerant of obscene speech. I don't think reasonable people WANT to be called every slur in the book, but I would rather people be told "here's the mute button; go use it" instead of Lyte saying that the Tribunal needed fundamental changes because mutes were a 'bandaid fix'; 'the damage has already been done'.

What damage? What is the fucking bodycount of someone saying 'ggez'? You're right; we don't have to deal with the behavior in our own games. But someone does, and it's Riot, and putting the onerous on Riot has had negative consequences on people's behavior, such as wielding reports like a weapon and demand Riot fix their problems, no matter how small, such as more participation trophies.

Shifting the onerous around doesn't make it disappear. I'd rather each individual be responsible for dealing with their own games instead of crying to Riot because now you get a feeling of moral superiority for seeing that someone you reported was punished.

One of these days, I'm going to get a group of me and 4 friends, stream an entire game from queue to exiting lobby, and we are going to say nothing but slurs in the TEAM chat. No one in the group reports. No one on the enemy team sees it. If any one of us gets a warning or a ban, League has crossed over into Orwellian dystopia territory.

Rivuo2 votes

Because no matter how bad you are, no matter what you do, even if you go 0-40 in each placement game and have a total kda of 0-300 in only 10 placements with a total of 30 CS for ALL 10 games.

You will get placed in Bronze.

So why reward for what everyone can do

The same reason why news casters dont put ''Homeless man'' when they interview one

Great Muta1 votes

So why reward for what everyone can do

I think it's hard to reward players on skill in a season where skill has meant as little as ever. I can personally tell you that I've never seen a wider gap in skills between players than this season.

Rivuo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Great Muta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=alkdRKaE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-10-04T19:21:47.848+0000)

I think it's hard to reward players on skill in a season where skill has meant as little as ever.

Pretty sure season 7 will be the same way.

Dynamic queue has fucked up everything. Riot wont even ACKNOWLEDGE that they lied about bringing it back. They just say ''we dont consider ita lie''

Great Muta1 votes

Pretty sure season 7 will be the same way.

Likely. The damage has been done and the bar has been set.

Alenthayn1 votes

what, ya want to show everyone how bronze you were this season?

Great Muta1 votes

My main is Silver. So I'll be showing off a Silver banner provided the punishment I took for fighting back against a premade wasn't after August 6th.

It's better than showing off nothing, to where people might think you are new to the game. Pretty much every elo minus Challenger is a participation award anyway, since it means nothing.

Alenthayn1 votes

then why would you want a bronze banner?

you already get an icon, and theres nothing to be proud of in Bronze, so I dont see why you would get as much rewards as a Silver player

Great Muta1 votes

then why would you want a bronze banner?

I'm speaking out for the people who aren't getting one and may have never gotten one. I actually made a similar post last year.

you already get an icon, and theres nothing to be proud of in Bronze, so I dont see why you would get as much rewards as a Silver player

I disagree. Any kind of promotion in the game is something to be proud of.

In reality, none of ranks mean jack shit outside of League, especially in a season where people got boosted.

Time Magik1 votes

Everyone gets borders, they just aren't distinguished for bronze and unranked.

Oh Look Kaede1 votes

Your not worthy

Great Muta1 votes

I already got my silver border so eat farts bud.

NotSpecialDude1 votes

Honestly, it is silly and counter productive to give out bronze borders to players who end the season in bronze.

You said it yourself, bronze is the butt of league community and the best way to make it worse is to strap an unremovable border for an entire year that will dictate how others treat them.

The border is supposed to be a badge of pride, proof that you climbed to higher rankings and remained there throughout the year.

A bronze border would be the opposite. A badge of shame indicating that even with a year of games against the statistically worst players, you couldn't even climb to silver. A badge that lasts for the entire season that serves as a reminder of your failure. Do you really want that?

Great Muta1 votes

I think you be ashamed if you need to treat people differently because of their rank and if you can't realize that nothing in this game translates to real life.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Actually I think the lack of a border helps to alleviate a bit (not a lot, but some) of the toxicity against Bronze players. They don't have a border from last season, so some players may just think that the person didn't participate in ranked last season, giving them the benefit of the doubt instead.

Great Muta1 votes

It doesn't matter. Toxic gon tox. They will just find something else.

Abyssphere1 votes

Having a Bronze border would be embarrassing for a lot of people. The end.

Great Muta1 votes

No it wouldn't. A lot of them would be happy to have one.

Abyssphere1 votes

Just because you want to tell the world that you were incapable of improving your rank to even the slightest degree this year doesn't mean that others would. Most people don't take pride in their failures.

LateCustomer1 votes

A bronze border isn't the worst idea in the world. It would, at the very least, distinguish people who played ranked from those who didn't, or those who are new.

Great Muta1 votes

Yes, it would.

Shuten Ðoji1 votes

I don't think anyone would actually want a bronze border.

LadyRenly1 votes

Borders are not a "reward", it's an indication of skill. Why are unranked and bronze considered the same thing?

Wonderlands1 votes

A silver border looks like shit. A bronze border is made out of actual shit. who df wants that

iTzYaBoyJohnCena1 votes

No, you're asking too much you bronzies already get an icon no more than that. A border is too much. Plus a bronze border would probably look so bad like I can't even imagine it.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Straight answer: because rewarding you for being bad means it lowers the value of fighting for silver.

Its like rewarding a kid for having the shitiest drawing in class.

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