How can I more clearly explain to bronze players that cs > kills?

Great Muta·Sep 28, 2016·20 votes·3,125 views

I've been told 3 times this week now that "cs doesn't matter".

Despite me usually having less kills than these people, I'm still multiple levels ahead.

The message isn't getting across. Having higher levels, more xp and more gold just for killing a few more minions is not getting into the heads of these teammates.

And you want to know the worst part? The guy who told me cs doesn't matter once this week is ranked ahead of me on one of my accounts. He's also doing Jungle Shyvana. Yes, a Jungle Shyvana is telling me that CS is not relevant to anything in the game.

75 Comments

venomous frostSep 28, 201630 votes

you don't, you beat them and climb out of bronze

junkgummybumSep 29, 20161 votes

Naw just have to have silver bullet teamcomposition: Blitz Blitzcrank , Leblong Leblanc , and ezrael Ezreal (Assuming skills are decent) and ban random crap like jhin Jhin , eve Evelynn , and khaz Khazix to grab next level elo

Maximum MordeSep 28, 201613 votes

https://66.media.tumblr.com/dda0181207ec421db5ac9be7af295b4d/tumblr_inline_nn2gc2Apw11tpn9ry_500.gif

EndlessSorcererSep 28, 20167 votes

"You know how you get 300 gold for a kill? Killing two minion waves or three jungle camps provides about the same amount of gold."

RalanrSep 28, 20162 votes

People would say that takes too long. From experience I can say that a short attention span is often the reason why I didn't take CS seriously.

EndlessSorcererSep 28, 20163 votes

Eh, I've always been rather patient myself. I was far more comfortable taking the easy, reliable gold until I knew I was strong enough to murder my opponent without risk to myself.

Though, the fact that I mained Nasus for a couple seasons probably helped me develop that mindset.

dominusxSep 28, 20165 votes

1st tower is love. I've died simply to get 1st tower i just hit the tower and the laner is hitting me kills me for free but idgaf that juicy 500+ gold is HUGE. If you go check my accounts my kill participation overall has never been above 60% why? cause i dont give a fuck about kills im the kind of guy that once we win the fight and the rest of the team is chasing down the rest of them imma simply split off and go take towers and objectives even on my main who is Kha aka a killwhore champ i have barely above 11 kills per game even when im fed, simply because i LOVE KILLING TOWERS doesnt matter how many kills you have if you dont open the map that gold is a waste.

NoblewindSep 28, 20163 votes

They won't listen, that's why they're in bronze

MimySep 28, 20162 votes

Tell them that roughly 16 CS = A kill worth of gold.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20161 votes

its closer to 30 but yes, die with the lie

MimySep 28, 20161 votes

I guess it depends on when the game is.. I think minions increase in gold as the game gets longer.

But yea towards late game it's like 16 minions..

Early game it's 25-30

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20161 votes

also depends on which minions you kill the most, not all of them are worth the same

MimySep 28, 20162 votes

Well I did say "Roughly" So.. I just pretty much estimated.. xD

BLACK REALM GODSep 28, 20161 votes

...you kill all the minions >.> Nasus

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20161 votes

the more accurate but rood way to put it is "it depends on which minions you miss the most" lol

Nasus wont be missing the melee minions very often, they stay where he needs to be and lose hp nice and slow

Azir might miss melee ones cuz tankier and he gets distracted a lot, but the ranged ones are easy to burst and less likely to get by with a sliver of hp since they wont be getting hit by other minions usually until the melee one's die.

BLACK REALM GODSep 29, 20161 votes

you kill ALL the minions. every day. all day. if you think one's going to get away you bring smite for that shit. ignite that little boy of blue and watch as your opponent cries in disappointment at your 300 cs in 20 minutes.

69469238DEL1Sep 28, 20162 votes

CS is for garbo noobs, just farm champions kappa

SlythionSep 28, 20162 votes

I just want to point out that you get xp from simply being near the death of a minion, not actually last hitting it yourself

Bots Whilst HighSep 28, 20162 votes

"but the LCS pros do it!" LCS pros activity have 200 farm at 20 minutes

Darkslayer85Sep 28, 20161 votes

350 farm by the end too

Sir FuzziSep 29, 20162 votes

Honestly, I gave up trying to explain anything. People still have no idea what Grievous Wounds is or is supposed to do, and no amount of explanation, of any kind, will encourage them to stop shitting up my game and buy it.

DunkinNoobsSep 29, 20162 votes

I'm still trying to figure out how to explain it to plat players, let alone bronze players.

Buff Jax pleaseSep 28, 20161 votes

They know that...they just don't apply it in game.

DukuesSep 28, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ukWf0PIL,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-09-28T15:20:54.677+0000)

They know that...they just don't apply it in game.

To be fair I honestly think A lot of players don't know that.

Buff Jax pleaseSep 28, 20163 votes

No, Bronze players know the game as well as Diamond players. They just don't apply their knowledge in game.

DukuesSep 28, 20164 votes

Ah yea shit your right how could i forget.......

Guess I should start asking bronze players for advice on how to climb.

Buff Jax pleaseSep 28, 20164 votes

Good thing there are enough here on these boards :)

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20162 votes

some do

the primary difference between the best of bronze and the average diamond is 8am-5pm (i.e. dedication and time use.)

GayFluffyUnicornSep 29, 20161 votes

If you are good you don't need to play for hours to get out. But bronzies will take any excuse to stay bad instead of improving and keep telling themselves all diamonds are just "nerds" and "no lifers"

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20162 votes

again, pro-players that have played at worlds do not agree with you.

If you are seriously suggesting that I've called someone a nerd or no-lifer you're worse off than any bronze fucker will ever be.

Dedication is not an excuse Time use is not an excuse

No, it doesn't take hours, it takes years of learning to be a proper gamer either through league or any form of play. You'll notice a lot of bronzies aren't actually busy people with lives but rather bored trolls and bad people in general. Some are just busy and don't really have time for league but those who escape will often be those who MADE the time to get good at something.

This applies to all games of any reasonable complexity from checkers to chess.

The difference between the best of bronze and the average diamond is 8am-5pm

The difference between the worst of bronze and the best of bronze is the thing of legend, a life story made for Hollywood. To become the best of bronze all you have to do is grow, to go from there to diamond you have to make time and be dedicated.

There is no excuse, this is common sense. The reason pro players get stuck in bronze is because they are pros at league not at bronze.

AbyssphereSep 28, 20163 votes

I don't think you can really generalise things like that as always true. I'm sure there are a lot of Bronze players with great knowledge, to the point where there's probably a fair amount of Bronze players with game knowledge better than some Diamonds, but there's a lot of reasons you can succeed or fail in climbing. Maybe you can't apply your knowledge, maybe you can apply your knowledge but have terrible mechanics and maybe you simply have no knowledge in the first place. There are evidently Bronze players who don't know stuff like CS being important, or the OP wouldn't have ran into them.

I'm in Silver and I have good friends in Gold and we all have different strengths and weaknesses. A friend of mine who just hit Gold for this season today has really poor game knowledge and generally doesn't think about game functionality a lot, but he's really great mechanically and largely how to win fights. My other friend has great knowledge and great mechanics so he's hoping to get to Plat soon. Personally I have quite a lot of knowledge but I don't have enough experience so I struggle to know how to approach matchups and my mechanics are lacking too.

There's no universal level of game knowledge, it's very possible to be at least somewhat ignorant of the game no matter what your level. Some Bronze players know a lot but don't know what to do with that knowledge, but not all.

TheorcheroSep 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you can really generalise things like that as always true. I'm sure there are a lot of Bronze players with great knowledge, to the point where there's probably a fair amount of Bronze players with game knowledge better than some Diamonds

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No.

Unless the D5's are boosted trash.

but there's a lot of reasons you can succeed or fail in climbing. Maybe you can't apply your knowledge, maybe you can apply your knowledge but have terrible mechanics and maybe you simply have no knowledge in the first place.

You need knowledge or mechanics, but 95% of players who reach Diamond are a mixture of both.

There are evidently Bronze players who don't know stuff like CS being important, or the OP wouldn't have ran into them.

There are also people who think the Earth is flat. Do like every reasonable person, ignore them and maybe send them a quick comment that they are fucking retarded and be on your merry way.

I'm in Silver and I have good friends in Gold and we all have different strengths and weaknesses. A friend of mine who just hit Gold for this season today has really poor game knowledge and generally doesn't think about game functionality a lot, but he's really great mechanically and largely how to win fights.

Maybe. Generally speaking Gold, or low Gold players have some idea of what to do, they're just super lazy with application. But it's also one of the more grinded ranked in league as well.

My other friend has great knowledge and great mechanics so he's hoping to get to Plat soon. Personally I have quite a lot of >knowledge but I don't have enough experience so I struggle to know how to approach matchups and my mechanics are >lacking too.

Practice and research dude. Matchups are one of the easiest things to get the hang of if you are an intelligent player. Figure out how their champion's trading pattern works.

For example, Graves top verses a melee with a gap closer.

Graves is ranged and has burst, vision denial, mobility, and resists. So he's a bit of a ranged bruiser. However, he has very short range and his auto attacks can be semi-mitigated by minions. In addition, his ammo system makes him vulnerable after he uses both of his shots.

Solution: In order to win this lane as a melee champion, you want someone that can jump in, deal some damage (preferably really good burst), then dip out to mitigate counter harass. Champions that favor extended trades with auto attacks will struggle because Graves will have enough time to get his auto attacks and dash up in order to out trade.

So Jax, Renekton, and Wukong can excel against Graves.

Jax can Empower-Leapstrike (WQ) into auto for 3rd damage proc (if lvl 6+) and then go for extended all in with E due to it's unique safety it provides, or use it as cover to prevent damage return. Ulti also useful to help prevent raw damage from bursting Jax.

Renekton has a shit load of damage and two dashes, making it fully possible to quickly jump in, nuke, and jump out to help mitigate the return trade. He also has natural sustain and innate tankiness to help prevent bursting.

Wukong can dash in with EQ and nuke Graves, though not as effectively as Jax or Renekton, but can safely disengage with W. Mana intensive, but can scale into late game harder than Renekton (Who falls off), but not as hard as Jax. Makes up for it with his passive giving him resists and having way better teamfight presence than either of them.

Someone that's bad against Graves is someone like Riven.

She's innately squishy and her gap closers that are also tied into her damage are also mitigated by Graves' dash, which also helps prevent her execute because it effectively mitigates her damage twice (Initial damage, reducing % missing, then the % missing reduction on the phys. execute) - He can simply dash away in order to get reload and deal very significant damage when she attempts to flee.

These are just bare examples of matchup specifics, and of course jungle intervention and individual outplays and misplays can go into account.

There's no universal level of game knowledge, it's very possible to be at least somewhat ignorant of the game no matter what your level. Some Bronze players know a lot but don't know what to do with that knowledge, but not all.

It's most common for bronze level players simply to be just bad. They think they know more than they do, so that and their attitude keeps them there. Bronze is so unfathomably bad that no one stays stuck there unless they are incapable of learning.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 29, 20161 votes

Exactly. I'm so sick of all these "muh i good like diamond that's why i stuck in gold/silver/bronze hurr durr". Bronze is just so unbelievable bad. Just spectate some bronze games or watch tricks subwars/plubwars bronze against silver for example. It hurts to watch how bad they actually are but sure there are many with "great" mechonix and better/same game knowledge like diamonds.

A Bad DianaSep 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ukWf0PIL,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2016-09-28T16:16:17.370+0000)

No, Bronze players know the game as well as Diamond players. They just don't apply their knowledge in game.

I think that's exaggerating a bit.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

Its probably not in some cases.

Some top game designers who are paid to watch and record a bunch of data on this game are actually only silver ranked or they were a few years back.

Doesn't take much to get stuck in bronze from they fall through the safety net somehow.. they probably don't play videogames too often anyways.

It takes more than game knowledge to advance. Diamond players are not all the smartest members of our community afterall. Each has something that got them there but it wasn't necessarily JUST their knowledge assuming they even have that much. For example you could just have a strategy that happens to work for a long time.

SiytherSep 28, 20161 votes

i find that when i try to just go for cs i usaaly end up losing then game cause others are ignoring it and going for kills. Seems retarded to me, i always try to have the most cs. Point is that, unless your 50 plus cs ahead, it feels like ur still behind cause it takes a few seconds to get a kill and at least a min to farm same gold from cs. PPl always say cs is more important but at low elo it just isnt true( at high elo it prob is true). Bronzie's have zero care for doing the things that you are supposed to do and thats why it catches a lot of ppl off guard .Its like reaaly wtf are they evn doing here right now they have no vision waves are pushed to their tower but low and behold one of them thirsy bastards are hiding in a bush at ur blue lol just to get a kill instead of taking the free farm and that how u win games in bronze i guess. Be dumb and try to kill everyone.

NotSpecialDudeSep 29, 20161 votes

It's a balancing act really. When ya lane you have three goals in mind.

get tons of gold as fast as possible.
slow your opponents gold farming to ensure a gold lead.
apply pressure in lane so your opponent can't leave without risking their tower.

Kills are valued so highly because they can achomplish all three in one action, but the risk to going for kills is falling behind in gold do to getting nothing while your opponent farmed successfully.

In low elo, cs seems inefficient only if your opponent is successful in getting kills. Best way to counter this is to play safe and prioritize survival and assume the worst in every situation. Assume they have vision, assume their jungler is around the corner ready to gank. Unless you know for certain that nothing could go wrong (vision, mini map, etc) Don't take the unnecessary risk. Eventually their thirst for kills will lead to starving for gold and you can turn the tables.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20161 votes

lets start by seeing your explanation

You are in the middle of a game, explain to me why cs matters.

Darkslayer85Sep 28, 20162 votes

You can gain as much as a full item over the enemy if you take the time to cs correctly instead of spewing plays from your asshole every 30 seconds.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 29, 20161 votes

conditionally true

There are some champs where you should focus on making the plays rather than farming. But that's still no reason to have so little value for farming, your explanation isn't flexible enough to deal with things like Annie Fizz fizz Blitzcrank Nunu Yasuo Katarina TwistedFate

NotSpecialDudeSep 29, 20161 votes

Heavy farming could also be a decent pressure tool. Things like freezing the lane are much easier to achomplish when the basic mechanics of csing is understood.

Plus, you might want to zone out the fella and cs ensures that you can do that and still get ahead.

nice tableSep 28, 20161 votes

killing people rewards you, sets the enemy behind and lets you free push. sure cs matters but if you could be killing people instead of farming the jungle for example you should probably do it.

CerealBoxOfDoomSep 28, 20163 votes

not always true.

Proxy singed was proof of this in fact.

each time you kill someone they are worth less gold and even then you have to consider how much gold you are losing and giving by focusing on killing.

If you spend the entire lane phase trying to kill me but lose 40 cs over the span of 20 minutes you better be fed or that is going to just be a net loss. Meanwhile it could benefit me if all I have to do is level to be useful

KouheySep 28, 20161 votes

Your daily dose of silver players bashing on bronze

GayFluffyUnicornSep 29, 20161 votes

Well silver players are obviously lightyears ahead of bronzies. Kappa. But the most cocky ones seem to be goldies. Somehow they think being "above average" makes them LoL gods when being trash compared to nuclear waste isn't that much of an achievement.

SylvantSep 29, 20161 votes

explaining in the game just doesnt work. They need to learn by experience and get to the point they have the capacity to understand. They are only able to see from their point of view, unable to notice their own mistakes, no matter how obvious they can be and very eager to point what you did wrong, or atleast what you didnt do according their bidding.

thacrazytacoSep 29, 20161 votes

I want to cs in bot but these fuckin monkeys keep trying to fight so I have to constantly kill them

SpoofghoulSep 29, 20161 votes

by afk farming

they all chase each other for 25 minutes then you butt in with 3 items advantage and slay everyone

LateCustomerSep 29, 20161 votes

You don't. You climb out of Bronze (or continue to climb if you already have) and let them stay in Bronze until they figure it out for themselves. You told them CS > Kills. Good guy point earned. You are no longer obligated to do any more if they refuse to listen.

If these people are your FRIENDS, well... again, climb out of Bronze (or keep climbing), and just remind them what you told them if they ask what the difference is.