Cool tip @Riot: One good reason why you're having issues with making ap support items...

chipndip1·Jul 22, 2016·1 votes·217 views

...is because you're putting too much emphasis on the stats and you're not making any useful item effects that ap supports could use.

Like, at the end of the day, there's no real reason why someone who scales off of ap would want a Locket or Crucible if you just look at the stats. It's the active shield and cleanse that's so good, and until you have items that are comparably valuable in their effects, you'll ALWAYS have Locket/Crucible outshine everything else in the long run, and that stagnates support item build diversity.

Like, what would you really get between a cleanse and 15% attack speed with a 30 magic damage on-hit before resistances?

8 Comments

ReshiKillimJul 22, 20161 votes

It depends on the support. A support with strong AoE heals can benefit more from an Ardent than they do Mikael's. Because a 15% AS boost and 30 damage on hit for your whole team is quite strong.

Sidenote: It gives Alistar some awesome pushing power as well, because his heal applies to minions.

Chamuel85Jul 22, 20161 votes

I think that Ardent was reworked to not let Alistar do that. I could be entirely wrong.

ReshiKillimJul 22, 20161 votes

Nope, Alistar still applies it to minions. And it might also apply to pets such as tibbers, Yorick's ghouls, Malz's voidlings, and Zz'rot voidlings. (I've gotta test these ones) Regardless of whether or not they do, ardent Alistar has some of the best pushing power among supports.

Chamuel85Jul 22, 20161 votes

UNIQUE: Heals and shields on allied champions (excluding yourself) grant them +15% attack speed and +30 on-hit magic damage for 6 seconds.

From leagueoflegends.wiki.com, that's why I thought Alistar's heal doesn't buff minions since it specifies allied champions. It could be wrong though.

ReshiKillimJul 22, 20161 votes

On Alistar's page, it shows in Triumphant Roar's notes that Riot made a special case exception for Alistar so he applies it to minions. I can also confirm that it works in game, but I have yet to test to see if it works with summoned minions and voidlings from Zz'rot.

Chamuel85Jul 23, 20161 votes

Cool! Thanks so much!

chipndip1Jul 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It depends on the support. A support with strong AoE heals can benefit more from an Ardent than they do Mikael's. Because a 15% AS boost and 30 damage on hit for your whole team is quite strong.

Sidenote: It gives Alistar some awesome pushing power as well, because his heal applies to minions.

Except it really isn't when you compare it to the other Forbidden Idol item, Crucible. Even more so when they make the items unable to stack.

The issue is basically "Why settle for decent?" in a nutshell. 15% AS boosts with a 30 damage on-hit isn't going to ever outshine a full-on cleanse, and there's rarely a time where you won't need a cleanse.

The Last BalladJul 22, 20161 votes

when they make the items unable to stack.

They are making it so you can't get 4 item 3504 or item 3222 and get 60% extra healing and shields. As they are not unique named passives(like icy) they can stack from different items, but extra copies of the same one don't. item 3165 (+20% cooldown unique passive) and item 3115 (20% cooldown passive) give 40% cdr. But two or would only give 20%.

So basicly you can get both Ardent and Crucible for 30%,(forbidden idol for 40% but that would be better served for a straight up ap item) without having to choose.

From the Wiki

Unique is a term used to describe an item effect. Stacking items—using more than one of the same item— will not result in multiple applications of the item effects that are labelled as unique.

Unique passive effects only apply once from identical items.

Unique active effects of identical items do not stack and share the same cooldown.

Unique aura effects apply once to yourself and once to allies, so two champions with the same unique aura item will each benefit twice from the aura, but other champions without the item will only be affected once.

From Surrender@20

Ardent Censer +15% heal and Shield power now a Unique Passive

Mikael's Crucible +15% heal and Shield power now a Unique Passive

And on the diffrence between named effects and unique effects from the wiki

Named item effects function similarly to unique effects, except that the effect is unique across any and all items which provide the named effect. Similar effects that do not share a name will stack, such as Quicksilver and Mikael's Crucible.