"assassins need a longer burst window hence 2 second timers"

rtbf76109271·Feb 1, 2017·23 votes·1,407 views

"except khazix, he can just press q"

36 Comments

OrangesilkFeb 2, 201714 votes

"2 Second windows" Meanwhile Syndra Lux Ahri

Because deleting squishies at melee range is toxic, but comboing from 100-0 from a distance is balanced.

Love the boards.

FireDrizzleFeb 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

**"2 Second windows" Meanwhile **

Because deleting squishies at melee range is toxic, but comboing from 100-0 from a distance is balanced.

Love the boards.

Vayne Tristana MissFortune

yay nibbersFeb 2, 20172 votes

Annie Anivia

CanastusFeb 2, 20173 votes

Ahri is one of the worst offenders in the game when it comes to low risk and high reward play patterns. She's been sitting at a 53-54% winrate since over a year now and yet Riot outright refuses to acknowledge the issue. If you look up her matchups, there are only 3-4 champs in the ENTIRE game who manage to get her to drop below 50%, everyone else struggles to just go even with her. She's objectively broken.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 2, 20174 votes

You can't only look at Winrate.

CanastusFeb 2, 20171 votes

She's also the 3rd most picked midlaner in the game. She got BOTH a high win- and pickrate, that makes her objectively overpowered.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 2, 20172 votes

Alright, since I'd rather play a game then explain something explained a thousand times over, I challenge you to make a "Ahri has a XX% winrate" post in the Gameplay section. You'll get at least 5 people who have explained it over and over, why Winrate and Playerbase doesn't mean a thing without also looking at the Champion itself.

CanastusFeb 3, 20171 votes

Sorry but I'm not interested in collecting hatred and propaganda from rabid Ahri fanboys who consider their champion to be the holy godmother of this game. They are in far too great numbers, there's no way to lead a constructive discussion in such an environment.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 3, 20171 votes

When you consider other people's opinions, especially those who have shown to be reasonable on many other "Ahri Winrate" posts, to be insignificant, you've lost the argument. You can not generalize an entire fan base to fit your argument.

CanastusFeb 3, 20171 votes

The moment they start defending a champion who's objectively overpowered due to having NO real weaknesses, it's time to call them out on their bullshit. But any attempt at doing so in an open manner (which would require a thread dedicated to the issue) only leads to countless downvotes by Ahri fanboys who'd much rather jack off to their oversexualized champion all day instead of caring about actual balance.

The fact remains that she has tons of players who would much rather keep their main in the current broken state which she's in.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 3, 20171 votes

Okay, then let's use the actual community as a Medium for this. We see constant posts about Lee Sin, Leblanc, Riven, Yasou, all sorts of cancer being thrown around. If she is so "totes OP broken 4 realz" how come we don't have any sort of feedback coming back from the Circlejerk of Boards? If she is truly that broken, how come we don't have a huge mass complaint posts about Ahri?

Now, let's move away from Board Logic (the worst, i know). Ahri has a safe kit, that is for sure, but look at every she lacks. She lacks range, she lacks Burst Early Game, requiring to poke people down before even having a chance to engage, and if she tries to 100-0 someone at full health, you can dodge her charm and her Q, which are main sources of damage. "But her dashes make it so easy", and they also put her right into your range as well if she's aiming point blank.

The ONLY thing Ahri has in abundance is Safety, and this is what influences her Winrate. Fact Ahri is hard to kill in lane unless locked down with an abundance of CC, or her Ult is down. This is where her safety comes into play, she can get out of danger rather quickly. Because of this "hard to kill"ness, she often doesn't feed in lane. This means she is less likely to feed her lane opponent.

Now this may not sound like a big deal, but it is one of the single most influential on her Winrate, because not having a fed enemy mid laner, increases her team's chance of winning. Ahri does not win a game unless she is fed, she wins with her team. She is specifically balanced around having this safety, BECAUSE of her mobility.

If Ahri did not have her safety, we'd be back in Season 4, where Assassin Ahri existed, and all she had to do was land a Single charm to nuke the fuck out of someone. Do you want an Ahri that is mobile and bursty as hell, or an Ahri who is mobile, with less damage BECAUSE of her mobility, because of her safety.

Ahri is specifically balanced around her mobility's safety. She can't burst like Syndra with such reliability, or Siege like Xerath or Ziggs. She doesn't have AOE CC, nor Huge AOE potential like Brand or extremely specialized Niche. She is safe, but she does not win alone, she wins with her team.

TL;DR: Her Niche is being safe, as she doesn't have any strengths outside of that, that other champs do better.

LauchmelderFeb 3, 20172 votes

If a champion has high winrate AND a high pickrate they're overpowered. There's no doubt about that.

Otherwise we can consider Thresh underpowered, right?

ModAcademy KaynFeb 3, 20171 votes

I don't want to flood the comments with the same thing, so if you're interested in my argument, check my post below, and we can continue from there, here.

LauchmelderFeb 3, 20172 votes

That point you made isn't really proving your argument.

The problem with Ahri is the same problem we have with Janna. Both are a joke when it comes down to skill requirements, both have a decent pickrate and a too high winrate.

And to be fair, poking the enemy in lane isn't actually hard to pull off. Just land your charm.

MrHaZeYoFeb 3, 20171 votes

Ahri's main two spells Orb/Charm are both skill shots, Fox Fire does reduced damage per fox fire that hits you and Spirit rush's damage isn't that high anymore and if she has to use all 3 to kill you she can't get away.

She does have a somewhat safe lane but if she tries to all in before backing or 6 she goes oom fast. You gank her and she needs to charm and orb to get away theres like 3/5 her mana.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 3, 20171 votes

And landing Charm is much harder than you think. If an Ahri is outside her minion wave, and you are too, she's most likely going to cast Charm, so you know when to dodge. Solution, stay inside your minion wave for a majority of time against Ahri, or purposefully appear to leave your minions to try and bait it out.

Hell, one of the main things to do against Ahri is to stay in a minion wave when fighting.

And to your comment about Pick/winrate again, did you read nothing about that down below? Her Niche is safety, and as such she doesn't feed her opponent, which leads to her team winning, because they don't have to deal with a fed laner (yes, this is not every case but it is a common one). I've picked Ahri many a time simply because I didn't want to feed, and I don't, but I also don't win lane.

LauchmelderFeb 3, 20172 votes

Two things:

Safety isn't a niche, it's a playstyle. Even a pre-nerf Syndra could play safe, it doesn't mean she was balanced.

Stay in your own minions to avoid her Charm -> eat every single one of her Qs thanks to our insane creepblock right now. Stay out of your minion wave and rely on dodging her Charm -> she has way more pressure over you.

I personally have no problem playing against her, because once she Qs I just use my own Q on her (while playing Cassiopeia) and get the Stormraiders movespeed bonus to easily dodge it.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 3, 20171 votes

Syndra doesn't have a speed boost, nor three dashes, and early game a wasted E is much more punishing on her than Ahri's. If Safety isn't her niche, then what is? Because Ahri doesn't have the Range, Damage, AOE CC, niches. If you say mobility, then it still applies, because Ahri's safety comes from her dashes.

And I may have misworded. You can easily stand behind your minions and accomplish the same effect, not necessarily inside your minions.

TequilaZombieFeb 2, 20172 votes

Look at the other stats. She's not a niche champion who counters a specific sort of oponent (like Galio against immobile AP champions) nor she is a champion with an overly dedicated playerbase such as pre-6.22 Shaco, Fiddle, and Donger (who all had a playerbase with over 180 games on average) to justify such a big winrate.

People don't mention the other stats that matter because virtually everyone already knows that Ahri doesn't have anything special besides a really high winrate.

ChaddyFantomeFeb 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aiRJATKz,comment-id=000400020000,timestamp=2017-02-02T15:06:03.239+0000)

You can't only look at Winrate.

While I agree with you, OP it utterly correct.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 2, 20171 votes

Not really. She's safe sure, but she doesn't do anything special. Her kill pattern is long, requires before hand poke early game, which can be dodged, and the only thing she does super well IS be safe. And of course, a champion who is safe is going to have a high "winrate" against lot's of other champions. Being able not to feed your opponent means that they're not going to have a fed carry mid to help the enemy.

She doesn't have a high winrate due to BEATING people, she has a high winrate because she can make sure she doesn't feed people, which heightens her own team's chance of winning, HENCE why she has a high winrate in general.

Meep ManFeb 2, 20171 votes

Technically all but Syndra have a 2 second window. Lux has to wait for her E to travel and use R. Ahri probably won't kill you instantly due to how her Q and R work. Only Syndra has the potential to be like "Bye nerd."

ChaddyFantomeFeb 2, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aiRJATKz,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2017-02-02T22:15:21.737+0000)

Technically all but Syndra have a 2 second window. Lux has to wait for her E to travel and use R. Ahri probably won't kill you instantly due to how her Q and R work. Only Syndra has the potential to be like "Bye nerd."

The difference tho is unlike Assassins, they burst you under CC so there is nothing you can do during that time except pray your support can save you or that your QSS is up. If the Mage fails to burst you, o well. If an assassin fails to do so, they are dead.

Wind WhistlerFeb 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

"2 Second windows" Meanwhile

Because deleting squishies at melee range is toxic, but comboing from 100-0 from a distance is balanced.

Love the boards.

Fuck Lux. She's the worst. Syndra is also really bad, and Ahri is just generally ridden with problems, but LUX MAN. WHY DO THEY KEEP BUFFING HER

ChaddyFantomeFeb 1, 20174 votes

And rengar, he can click on you.

RavenMagusFeb 2, 20173 votes

Hey, come on man, it's harder than that.

He has to ult first. From basically anywhere on the map.

Covert Ops GnarFeb 2, 20173 votes

No dood dont use facts, they are boards members their brain capacities cant handle that they might go into seizures

ModAcademy KaynFeb 2, 20173 votes

Except Kha'zix, who needs to have his Target isolated from Allies to do any meaningful assassination. You'd know this, if ya know, you actually analyzed all the levers used to balance champs with.

rtbf76109271Feb 2, 20173 votes

oh no he can typically only get bonus damage against 3 out of 5 players. While against the other 2, you have 3 members of your team focusing 1 player instead of 2 so it doesn't matter.

How will khazix ever manage to be a top LCS pick with these kind of ridiculous limitations!!!

I demand riot buffs him until he is in the top 10 for solo queue for ALL of the following: -win rate -play rate -ban rate -gold earned -role position -kill count

He could never have all 6 of those and also be a top pro pick with this "isolated" garbage

ModAcademy KaynFeb 2, 20171 votes

Wow, you are obnoxus to speak with. But regardless, Minions and towers count against being not being Isolated, so no, it does not only effect bot lane.

PupelFeb 1, 20172 votes

In theory how its suppose to work is he needs to press q twice but once he is 13/0 the rules no longer apply.

The Scout GirlFeb 2, 20179 votes

a 13/0 teemo can one shot u with his W

RocketRelmFeb 2, 20172 votes

Was about to question how, but name checks out, so I'll leave it.

yung niga singedFeb 2, 20172 votes

"Assassins shouldn't be able to kill you, so that's why we made assassins have a 2 second window for you to react" Tell that to LeBlanc, idk what it is about that champ, but she can spam, I dodge most of it, but once one chain hits, it's like 1/2 my hp disappears and she regens the mana fast enough to just do it again 5 seconds later. Yeah, 2 second window. More like 2 longer seconds of me staring at my health bar disappear faster than Tyler1's career.

SpoofghoulFeb 2, 20171 votes

meanwhile item 3031

Who is TaliyahFeb 3, 20171 votes

Meanwhile a crit shaco gets behind you klling you within 0.8 seconds even tho you have 130 armor, can't even use zhonyas so fast you die. And people cry about crit shaco being so weak.