How am I suppose to figure out when it's better to build Lethality vs Damage/Crit?

Risen29··1 votes·4,670 views

Aside from scouring the wiki and doing a lot of complicated math to figure out all the exact specific circumstances when a specific hero should build arpen vs damage, are there any basic guidelines you can follow to help you judge when one is better than the other on AD assassins or assassin-like fighters/ADCs/bruisers? If not, the devs should probably consider ways of making this easier for players to judge in-game.

Runes alone would allow you to penetrate the average base armor at level 1, which appears to be around 24 Partial runes and cunning mastery would allow you to accomplish the same thing at level 1.

You will, however, require max runes, masteries, and all three armor pen items in order to negate the average base armor value at level 18, which appears to be around 83. At that point, a % armor pen item will only help if they have bought at least one armor item or they have spells/abilities that you anticipate will be giving them armor when you face them.

Even assuming we are dealing with a relatively low armor ADC or support, who doesn't build any armor items and has no armor buffs, how are we suppose to know whether or not it's better to invest fully in armor pen vs damage and crit?

How do you know when they've built enough armor that a Dominik's Revenge will be a better overall damage than to buy a higher flat damage/crit item like infinity edge?

I think Talon is the main champion that I have this question concerning. Although I do also have concerns about figuring out this issue with some of my other favorite AD champions that I play more like assassins (Quinn, Vayne, Jax, and to a lesser extent Graves, VI, and possibly the new Warwick), but those champions start to get even more complicated because attack speed or defensive options are other variables that are important to factor in for optimal damage output. Talon is probably easier to figure out because he's so bursty that he isn't really designed to slug it out in auto attacking anyway. So it's really a question of lethality vs damage and crit.

Any help figuring this out would be appreciated.

3 Comments

SGT Dingle Berry1 votes

I struggle with it too, at least with ADCs. From what I've heard Jhin is broken again with lethality but he's a little different mechanics wise.

Risen291 votes

I've been playing around with it on Talon, and so far I find the result of Lethality to be very underwhelming. Now I understand why some guides are recommending Talon be built with things like Black Cleaver and Titanic Hydra - You need the extra health to be competitive because it's harder to close the distance and you need more time to deal your damage. But, on top of that, I think the other reason is because Lethality items just aren't good enough by themselves. You don't really need them in order to kill squishies, and flat lethaliity really isn't going to help you at all against moderately armored targets either because you are a burst assassin. So what's the point? Burst down squishies a little faster, with some extra movespeed and utility?

It's just not worth the investment in terms of time and cost.

You're better off taking tanky damage items, and then supplementing that with some dedicated damage items (which may or may not include a flat lethality item) because you'll still kill unarmored squishies reasonably fast without going heavy lethality, but the percent armor shred, percent health damage, and extra auto attack will give you a chance of being useful against anyone else on the enemy team - or help you more against those squishies who do decide to stack armor.

This also explains why he is doing better in top lane than mid lane now.

Risen291 votes

Doing some damage calculations on Talon, comparing a full AD build with a full lethality build, it does appear that at level 18 a full lethality build will mean the difference between killing or not killing a level 18 veigar without any additional armor. It's quite a big leap in damage, and is well worth it assuming that is your only kind of target. It also seems that at that point, after already having full armor pen, that trading out your IE for a Dominik's regards is unlikely to net you any additional damage unless they have stacked health without adding armor.

It took a while to calculate, and I know my calculations weren't perfect, so this really is an issue where they need some in-game guidance about what is useful when.

I want to try calculating what the difference looks like when veigar gets one armor item, two armor items, and then calculate against a full blown tank that has gone max defense.

If full lethality isn't superior to going full AD when a mage/ADC has only one armor item, then I would consider lethality a failure as a stat. Because in order to be useful you really have to be able to threaten more than just the unarmored targets. You've got to be able to assassinate lightly armored mages and ADCs, and still pose a threat to even moderately armored ones. The same also goes for fighters; if you can't take out a lightly armed fighter, and pose a threat to a moderately armored one, your role on a team is going to be extremely limited.

I also wonder at what point their armor gets to be so much, that you are better off just getting a dominiks revenge and putting the rest of your stats and slots into AD. Because at that point the flat lethality may not be cost effective for what you get out of it, when dealing with someone who has hundreds of armor and high health.

Things will get even more complicated if I have to also calculate whether or not it's worth going one lethality item and lethality runes vs going full AD everything. Does a little bit of lethality help augment your damage as a force multiplier, but have diminishing returns with stacking lethality?

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