Should counterbuilding come at a cost?

Disulfiram··2 votes·517 views

To explain what I mean, I'll take item 3165 as an example (I'm not saying that item 3165 is unbalanced, I'm just using it to explain my point).

Grievous wounds is intended to be a counter to healing. But if the item giving it is so good that everybody would buy it regardless anyway, then what's the point in having this mechanic at all? The enemy having some healing becomes irrelevant, as you'd have bought item 3165 anyway... this is not counterbuilding, there is no decision to be made here.

This is handled much better for ADCs: the GW item they get comes at the cost of the other Last Whisper upgrade, which is a net loss in damage if the healing enemy also stacks health (which is usually the case). This means that ADCs can trade damage for the ability to reduce healing, thus there is a decision involved here.

What do you think about this?

Imho this is a problem that should be addressed. Taking again item 3165 as an example, a possible fix could be:

  1. Add an item with slightly better stats than item 3165 but without GW
  2. Make the GW on item 3165 trigger more easily
  3. Nerf the other stats on item 3165

This should add a decision: I'm a mage, do I want to reduce healing or would I benefit best from some more raw damage this game?

5 Comments

MrHaZeYo1 votes

item 3165 's GW is stupid though, they have to be below a set mark for HP, usually if they are you'd have the damage to 100-0 them whereas item 3033 's GW is on every AA.

Disulfiram1 votes

Exactly! The enemy having healing is almost irrelevant in the decision on whether or not to build item 3165 .

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I'm saying, for your original argument, item 3165 was a bad choice.

There is no counter building revolved in deciding to build it or not and there is no counter build to counter it. It is simply a core item.

item 3033 item 3036 are counter build items. If the enemy has 1 or 2 or more opponents stacking armor, you build this, if they don't then you don't.

If your opponents are building only the 3 Leth items, you buy Armor. If your opponents have more then 1 AA based champ you build Tabis If your opponents have a lot of CC you build Mercs.

Those would be a few counter building items.

On the flip side, there are builds that counter not countering them.

Ahri, has 30 MR base, if she builds no MR and has no MR runes then building a item 3136 with item 3020 will enable you to do true damage.

Disulfiram1 votes

... which is exactly the point of the thread. Grievous wounds as a mechanics exists to counter healing; if the only AP item giving it is a core item that almost anyone builds anyway, then it's a meaningless mechanic.

On ADs instead it is handled better, as there it does involve a meaningful choice.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

I'm all for a different Morello that just changes the GW for something else, but how disgusting would that be?

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