Boards›Gameplay

How Valuable Are Senna's Wraiths?

Elite4Runner·12/16/2019, 5:08:10 PM·37 votes·16,148 views

**TLDR: 72.75 gold per wraith **

p.s. Lol people are correcting and expanding on my math now. That's perfectly fine, but my point was that she gets more than just 3 gold from wraiths. ... a lot more.

I posted this in someone else's question about why Senna got bonus gold per wraith. The answer to their question is that extra gold goes into purchasing marksman items, which are expensive. ... but this got me thinking about the gold value she gets from her passive, and this is what I came up with

Each wraith gives +1 AD, which is equal to 35 gold when compared to the cost of 1 Long Sword (+10 AD for 350g)

For every 20 wraiths, you get an additional 15% critical strike chance. Compared to 25% critical strike chance with a value of 800 gold, 20 stacks of Senna's passive gives an added value of 600 gold.

600 / 20 = 30g

Also, for every 20 wraiths, you gain +25 attack range.

Attack range is a difficult stat to give a gold value as there isn't a way to directly purchase it other than with Rapidfire Cannon, which doesn't give a range value on the lolwiki page. However, not accounting for the passive RFC is only 67% cost effective. So if the passive is considered to be the remainder of the gold value, it can be assumed that 35% of Senna's attack range is equal to 32.79% of RFC's total cost.

0.35 (600) = 210 range 0.3279 ( 2600g) = 852.4 gold

It takes 9 x 20 wraiths for Senna to exceed the range provided by RFC 180 = 225 range

So theoretically the gold value of RFC's passive can be divided by the number of wraiths needed to exceed the range to give the gold value of each wraith 854.2 / 9 = 94.9g per 20 wraiths 852.4 / 180 = 4.75g per wraith

So at a minimum, every wraith gives Senna 38 gold value (+3 flat gold +35 gold value of AD)

At 20 wraiths she gains an additional 600 (+15% critical strike chance) and 94.9 (+25 attack range) gold value on top of the 90 flat gold and 700 (+20 attack damage) gold value. That's 1454.9 gold per 20 wraiths.

If we were to just give her this value per stack and not work on the 20 wraith milestones, that's roughly 72.75 gold per wraith

87 Comments

nm101012/16/2019, 5:28:40 PM49 votes

And yet people still walk away from the two souls from dragon like it is nothing.

Death by Glamour12/16/2019, 5:30:31 PM24 votes

It was stramge that the released senna with such potential income (gold and raw stats) from wraiths while at the same time cutting off other supports gold income with the mew items.

Illabethe12/16/2019, 7:09:28 PM22 votes

And then you need to calculate:

-The net loss in AD per level -The net loss in Crit DAMAGE from a crit -The net loss in attack speed scaling -The net loss in her HP growth

And then there's all the abstract net losses .....like....

-40% AD scaling damage ability. -long cooldowns on her entire kit to balance out what her kit does.

Bottom line: If you're trying to break down gold math, take into account the negatives as well as the positives.

You botched the math on crit value, specifically because of how it works on her. In reality you should be weighing value based upon what crit actually does: damage.

On Senna:

800g = 25% of 200% damage

Senna: 600g = 15% of 130% damage

In other words, if 3200g = 100% crit of 200%

at 15%, Senna's crits are worth: #((3200*.15)2 -(3200*.15).7)/2 = 312 Gold.

#In other words, the crit portion only contributes 15.6 Gold.

(Your 600g for 15% Crit math was horribly wrong. 15% crit = 480G)

She is missing between 50-68 base AD, so you also need to debit that from your calculations for the AD value. (500-680 Gold, or enough AD to nullify 2.5-3.4 whole tiers of stacks)

Her attack speed is only 65% as effective as other adcs, so this is another consideration for valuation, but it's one that requires you to assume a specific build.

Senna max HP and min HP is 1795 to 529 HP.

That's approximately only 85.3% of the average adc's HP.

If Ruby Crystal is worth 400g, that's another loss of about 866 Gold, or 50g per level. (Assuming you gain about 1 level per 2 minutes of play, that's about 25g a minute).

So what the REAL math boils down to (assuming your AD and range math is right):

#15.6+35*.5 (Approximation because stacks per game vary) + 4.75 = 37.85 Gold per stack

Looks like you were inflating your numbers quite a bit ^^

Oh. and that doesn't include her attack speed stunting, which effectively makes the impact of all these extra stats ....... 65% effective, or really closer to 24.9 G per Mist stack

^Real math is far tamer.

Sire Hippington12/16/2019, 6:36:58 PM10 votes

You greatly undervalued the attack range. RFC only gives the range on energized attacks, Senna gets it permanantly for every single AA.

IVSakenz12/16/2019, 6:49:33 PM4 votes

You can not assign that kind of value to them because of Sennas scaling... she does not get full value for certain stats that is made up for by the wraith system.

PopcornBunni12/16/2019, 7:41:45 PM4 votes

Now calculate the gold value of a normal character getting AD and AS from levels.

Actually I'll just post it here since it's a simple calculation. I'll use Sivir since she's pretty much the embodiment of a simple right clicking ADC.

3 AD per level: 105g, and 1.6% bonus Attack Speed per level: 40g

Totaling 145g per level

By comparison Senna gets less gold in AS per level. Yes Senna does technically get 4% bonus AS per level as well, but her base AS is 0.2 attacks per second with an additional +0.425 to match the 0.625 of the rest of the cast, but this second amount sn't affected by bonus attack speed. So any bonus AS she gets only affects the 0.2 attack speed, or 32% effective as on most of the cast: 4% is only applied to the 0.2 for an additional 0.08 attacks per second each level, or a 1.28% increase: 32g

Since Senna doesn't get bonus AD per level, the value of the souls she collects each level needs to be 113g to keep up.

From your 30g crit value, it should also be noted that her crits hit for less than other characters: 70% less to be exact. So the 30g from the crit chance she gets is really the effect of 9g of crit chance on anyone else.

This makes the value of each soul 51.75. While this is lower than your estimate, it's still extemely high given the amount she needs to compensate from her missing stats per level.

Put another way, Senna only needs to collect 2.184 souls every level to be on par with "normal" characters. Any more frequent than that and she outstats them by increasingly ridiculous amounts. It's no wonder she had a nearly 60% WR on launch and is still sitting cozily broken.

GigglesO12/17/2019, 3:50:34 AM3 votes

Should also figure out how much she loses in attack speed and ad from shitty scaling on it.

Wild Geese12/16/2019, 10:33:07 PM1 votes

They're worth too much. ADC Senna is punished way too hard for farming properly thanks to the recent nerf. You end up with about half the stacks a support Senna does, probably less if you farm perfectly (which I can't).

So I get about 75% of the stacks people get as Support Senna since I'm a pretty bad CS'er... It feels bad to last hit, it feels bad not to. What a frustrating champ to play as ADC.