PSA: the spell thief's change isn't as bad as it seems.

FOR JUSTICE··6 votes·7,609 views

just in case those of you that dont know

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/1095159089166921728/photo/1

The new spell thief's edge change does NOT nerf supports as hard as it seems by requiring an ally to gain gold. to even gain that gold requires enemies to be nearby, and There are only 3 instances where the support isn't with an ally directly next to them:

  • The ADC is at base and you haven't left lane (whether they are walking back, AFK, dead, etc.)

  • You're warding

  • during the transition of a roam (in other words, walking through the jungle to get to a lane)

When the ADC is at base, whether it be that they're AFK or walking back, the lane is YOURS. as in, you get to CS to hold the lane if/when they arrive. even if you got all 3 proc's off, you only gain up to 66 gold. that's the same value as simply collecting ~3 minions or a single cannon minion that your ADC already wold have missed. therefore technically the only gold your actually missing is the gold from harassing them in addition to killing the CS with it. which is actually made right back up by simply waiting for the ADC to come back before spending the proc's. therefore this technically isn't actually making you lose any gold at all. it just takes a bit more time for you to collect said gold.

When your moving to ward, you don't have to be as glued to the ADC as it implies, as 1500 range is very generous. for comparisons sake, know a rank 1 Ryze ult has a cast range of 1750 (indicated by the outermost circle):

https://imgur.com/a/Ub9H5um

new spell thief's is just 250 units less then the range displayed above. therefore, you're free to ward or shoot a skill shot into a bush, and still gain a proc if you hit something (assuming anything is even there)

now, the only gold you actually lose is if you run into a 1v1 skirmish while transitioning to a roam, or when going for a deep ward solo. so therefore to compensate, you're given 1-2 extra gold for every ability you land in lane which is guaranteed. mind you, there isn't even a guarantee you would run into another champion to begin with, but you get 1-2 gold for the majority of the time you spend in lane. once you actually get to the roam location ofc there will be an ally there, so you still gain proc's. and you're smarter then most to know if the jungler is nearby its probably not the best time to deep ward, so even as it is currently you wouldn't have gained the gold from finding + shooting at him anyway.

in essence, the change actually doesn't affect supports in general very much, but actually successfully guts the 0 CS toplane strat. the only difference is you wait like 3-4 extra seconds to get the gold. is that really that much of a crippling change?

also for enchanter supports such as nami, lulu, janna, etc, your play style does not change as much as most would imply, as no matter what you would be right next to and protecting your ADC anyway.

21 Comments

Ravenhale7 votes

Can Targon's have that 1500 unit range? Would be nice. Just saying....

Edit: Targon's is 1050 range if anyone is curious.

Saezio2 votes

Or at least it's upgrades :/ Feels so bad to chase people to donate gold to them

xDogMeatx3 votes

another reason why adcs have support slaves now.

hrooza dota 2 votes

yes pls

i dont like running after someone just to proc those [sg-ahri-1]

Saezio3 votes

Does the penalty for CSing not apply when none is nearby? If the adc dies and the support gets to waveclear 10 creeps for example before the adc comes back, they shouldn't be penalized since they were not able to proc Spellthief in the first place

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

{quoted}

Does the penalty for CSing not apply when none is nearby? If the adc dies and the support gets to waveclear 10 creeps for example before the adc comes back, they shouldn't be penalized since they were not able to proc Spellthief in the first place

the penalty still applies but remember all the penalty does is stop tribute generation, all that means is that it stops you gaining new stacks for a few seconds, not from expending them ones you already have once your adc gets back.

Saezio5 votes

Why should it stop procing but not the penalty? It makes no sense. Let's say I am playing support xerath or velkoz or brand or something. I would gladly sit in lane wait for my adc to come back after he died the 3rd time and just proc spellthief on the enemies. But, with the changes, you are penalized for CSing when you could have done nothing else. Maybe put a cap on how long you need to wait to start generating tributes (you also don't get the passive 2/10)

The whole reason you get that penalty is to discourage sololaners from building it. What I am proposing only benefits supports and not sololaners.

If you get 20 cs for example it takes one million years to start generating again.

FOR JUSTICE2 votes

{quoted}

Why should it stop procing but not the penalty? It makes no sense. Let's say I am playing support xerath or velkoz or brand or something. I would gladly sit in lane wait for my adc to come back after he died the 3rd time and just proc spellthief on the enemies. But, with the changes, you are penalized for CSing when you could have done nothing else. Maybe put a cap on how long you need to wait to start generating tributes (you also don't get the passive 2/10)

The whole reason you get that penalty is to discourage sololaners from building it. What I am proposing only benefits supports and not sololaners.

If you get 20 cs for example it takes one million years to start generating again.

thats just it, i addressed this in the post too, once you collect 3 or more minions you've already out valued what the tribute stacks would have given, so even if it does you're not really sacrificing any gold at all. of this change though i do agree i cant exactly explain why they decided it wont proc but will consume charges anyway + time penalty.

also 20 cs is about 3 waves. if youre ADC misses 3 waves of exp and gold they may as well be AFK, which by definition makes you a sololaner XD

Saezio2 votes

So you've never had an adc that either died and got poked the minute they get back to lane and have to B again or just straight up die 2 times in a row? If they do that at level around 7 the support is left alone for a good 2 mins in the bot lane

xDogMeatx3 votes

annnnd there goes another style of play gone.... just like the support singed guy or other persons with oddish builds (and my ancient coin sylas mid for the mana/coins/vision to a otherwise hard lane) looks like they are forcing us to a verrry specific playstyle.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

{quoted}

annnnd there goes another style of play gone.... just like the support singed guy or other persons with oddish builds (and my ancient coin sylas mid for the mana/coins/vision to a otherwise hard lane) looks like they are forcing us to a verrry specific playstyle.

explain

xDogMeatx2 votes

i play sylas mid with coin because he has a vayne/kass like role (if you die your doomed to be behind forever) so i use coin to stop this from happening due to 99% of the roster can outdamage you early. plus sightstone isnt available anymore.

Ηuawei2 votes

What if your adc is dying over and over?

It was bad before but now it will be gg 100%.

If your adc dies 3 times in lane you practically will gain no gold from spellthief.

What the hell

FOR JUSTICE3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pls Gift me RP,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZEVyqf4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-12T18:35:28.613+0000)

What if your adc is dying over and over?

It was bad before but now it will be gg 100%.

If your adc dies 3 times in lane you practically will gain no gold from spellthief.

What the hell

once you collect 3 or more minions you've already out valued what the tribute stacks would have given. so yeah you would gain no gold from support item but still end up with more gold then you would have gotten overall.

IronWorksDragon1 votes

Still means you'll take 4 years to get the quest

Cdore2 votes

My problem with the change is that it's a solution to a problem caused by another solution made caused by another problem....

It keeps adding on with no fix to the source of all these fixes. This is just going to cause another set of problems like it always does.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

{quoted}

My problem with the change is that it's a solution to a problem caused by another solution made caused by another problem....

It keeps adding on with no fix to the source of all these fixes. This is just going to cause another set of problems like it always does.

tbh i dont even know why they even added a farming bounty. no one asked for that, and that caused this problem. like it wasnt even a solution that caused this, just something that was needlessly added.

G0blinSlay3r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZEVyqf4,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-12T17:35:29.373+0000)

just in case those of you that dont know

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/1095159089166921728/photo/1

The new spell thief's edge change does NOT nerf supports as hard as it seems by requiring an ally to gain gold. to even gain that gold requires enemies to be nearby, and There are only 3 instances where the support isn't with an ally directly next to them:

  • The ADC is at base and you haven't left lane (whether they are walking back, AFK, dead, etc.)

  • You're warding

  • during the transition of a roam (in other words, walking through the jungle to get to a lane)

When the ADC is at base, whether it be that they're AFK or walking back, the lane is YOURS. as in, you get to CS to hold the lane if/when they arrive. even if you got all 3 proc's off, you only gain up to 66 gold. that's the same value as simply collecting ~3 minions or a single cannon minion that your ADC already wold have missed. therefore technically the only gold your actually missing is the gold from harassing them in addition to killing the CS with it. which is actually made right back up by simply waiting for the ADC to come back before spending the proc's. therefore this technically isn't actually making you lose any gold at all. it just takes a bit more time for you to collect said gold.

When your moving to ward, you don't have to be as glued to the ADC as it implies, as 1500 range is very generous. for comparisons sake, know a rank 1 Ryze ult has a cast range of 1750 (indicated by the outermost circle):

https://imgur.com/a/Ub9H5um

new spell thief's is just 250 units less then the range displayed above. therefore, you're free to ward or shoot a skill shot into a bush, and still gain a proc if you hit something (assuming anything is even there)

now, the only gold you actually lose is if you run into a 1v1 skirmish while transitioning to a roam, or when going for a deep ward solo. so therefore to compensate, you're given 1-2 extra gold for every ability you land in lane which is guaranteed. mind you, there isn't even a guarantee you would run into another champion to begin with, but you get 1-2 gold for the majority of the time you spend in lane. once you actually get to the roam location ofc there will be an ally there, so you still gain proc's. and you're smarter then most to know if the jungler is nearby its probably not the best time to deep ward, so even as it is currently you wouldn't have gained the gold from finding + shooting at him anyway.

in essence, the change actually doesn't affect supports in general very much, but actually successfully guts the 0 CS toplane strat. the only difference is you wait like 3-4 extra seconds to get the gold. is that really that much of a crippling change?

also for enchanter supports such as nami, lulu, janna, etc, your play style does not change as much as most would imply, as no matter what you would be right next to and protecting your ADC anyway.

Yes but a good amount of ADC's are aware they can troll their support this way too.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

{quoted}

Yes but a good amount of ADC's are aware they can troll their support this way too.

like i showed in the SS 1500 units is pretty huge, so they would therefore also be gimping themselves to stay outside of it. and as long as the ally is in range, you can proc it anywhere else, and for coins minions killing each other will still drop it.

also PLEASE dont quote my entire long winded text, it hurts my eyes XD

G0blinSlay3r2 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZEVyqf4,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-02-13T16:04:38.899+0000)

like i showed in the S.

some people don't want to be in range.

BlueBilberry1 votes

Yes, this is an old post, but the idea is back once again for spellthief/sickle.

Simply:

  1. If you have a timid adc, then you are screwed as support.
  2. If you have an adc that feeds or repeatedly mispositions and dies, then you are screwed as support.
  3. If you are playing an enchanter in a losing lane where the adc is inept, then you are screwed as support.
  4. If you are playing a support which is not a tank, then you are screwed as support.

Pure and simple, it means that once again, Riot thinks of helping supports as an afterthought - after dealing with the other roles/lanes. This is once again an example of why we as support mains can't have nice things. Not only are we left with terrible utility items, have to make do with less gold than other lanes, and this season have to make do with less xp (meaning that a support which does his/her job will be 2-3 levels behind the other roles - especially this season where the xp sharing really punishes supports), but now the horrible support items they left us with this season are now being made even worse. Great! Bravo Riot! (sarcasm intended)

Is this your solution to getting more players playing jungle in lower tiers? Have them quit playing in the botlane, period? Are you saying that more of us support and adc mains should follow Tyler1 out of botlane and start playing jungle? Please Riot - stop treating the botlane as the entertainment and punching bag of other lanes...

More from Gameplay

More by FOR JUSTICE