PSA: the spell thief's change isn't as bad as it seems.

FOR JUSTICE·2/12/2019, 5:35:29 PM·6 votes·7,609 views

just in case those of you that dont know

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/1095159089166921728/photo/1

The new spell thief's edge change does NOT nerf supports as hard as it seems by requiring an ally to gain gold. to even gain that gold requires enemies to be nearby, and There are only 3 instances where the support isn't with an ally directly next to them:

  • The ADC is at base and you haven't left lane (whether they are walking back, AFK, dead, etc.)

  • You're warding

  • during the transition of a roam (in other words, walking through the jungle to get to a lane)

When the ADC is at base, whether it be that they're AFK or walking back, the lane is YOURS. as in, you get to CS to hold the lane if/when they arrive. even if you got all 3 proc's off, you only gain up to 66 gold. that's the same value as simply collecting ~3 minions or a single cannon minion that your ADC already wold have missed. therefore technically the only gold your actually missing is the gold from harassing them in addition to killing the CS with it. which is actually made right back up by simply waiting for the ADC to come back before spending the proc's. therefore this technically isn't actually making you lose any gold at all. it just takes a bit more time for you to collect said gold.

When your moving to ward, you don't have to be as glued to the ADC as it implies, as 1500 range is very generous. for comparisons sake, know a rank 1 Ryze ult has a cast range of 1750 (indicated by the outermost circle):

https://imgur.com/a/Ub9H5um

new spell thief's is just 250 units less then the range displayed above. therefore, you're free to ward or shoot a skill shot into a bush, and still gain a proc if you hit something (assuming anything is even there)

now, the only gold you actually lose is if you run into a 1v1 skirmish while transitioning to a roam, or when going for a deep ward solo. so therefore to compensate, you're given 1-2 extra gold for every ability you land in lane which is guaranteed. mind you, there isn't even a guarantee you would run into another champion to begin with, but you get 1-2 gold for the majority of the time you spend in lane. once you actually get to the roam location ofc there will be an ally there, so you still gain proc's. and you're smarter then most to know if the jungler is nearby its probably not the best time to deep ward, so even as it is currently you wouldn't have gained the gold from finding + shooting at him anyway.

in essence, the change actually doesn't affect supports in general very much, but actually successfully guts the 0 CS toplane strat. the only difference is you wait like 3-4 extra seconds to get the gold. is that really that much of a crippling change?

also for enchanter supports such as nami, lulu, janna, etc, your play style does not change as much as most would imply, as no matter what you would be right next to and protecting your ADC anyway.

21 Comments

Ravenhale2/12/2019, 5:57:39 PM7 votes

Can Targon's have that 1500 unit range? Would be nice. Just saying....

Edit: Targon's is 1050 range if anyone is curious.

Saezio2/12/2019, 6:05:38 PM3 votes

Does the penalty for CSing not apply when none is nearby? If the adc dies and the support gets to waveclear 10 creeps for example before the adc comes back, they shouldn't be penalized since they were not able to proc Spellthief in the first place

xDogMeatx2/12/2019, 8:05:27 PM3 votes

annnnd there goes another style of play gone.... just like the support singed guy or other persons with oddish builds (and my ancient coin sylas mid for the mana/coins/vision to a otherwise hard lane) looks like they are forcing us to a verrry specific playstyle.

Ηuawei2/12/2019, 6:35:28 PM2 votes

What if your adc is dying over and over?

It was bad before but now it will be gg 100%.

If your adc dies 3 times in lane you practically will gain no gold from spellthief.

What the hell

Cdore2/12/2019, 9:44:52 PM2 votes

My problem with the change is that it's a solution to a problem caused by another solution made caused by another problem....

It keeps adding on with no fix to the source of all these fixes. This is just going to cause another set of problems like it always does.

G0blinSlay3r2/13/2019, 3:55:39 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aZEVyqf4,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-12T17:35:29.373+0000)

just in case those of you that dont know

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/1095159089166921728/photo/1

The new spell thief's edge change does NOT nerf supports as hard as it seems by requiring an ally to gain gold. to even gain that gold requires enemies to be nearby, and There are only 3 instances where the support isn't with an ally directly next to them:

  • The ADC is at base and you haven't left lane (whether they are walking back, AFK, dead, etc.)

  • You're warding

  • during the transition of a roam (in other words, walking through the jungle to get to a lane)

When the ADC is at base, whether it be that they're AFK or walking back, the lane is YOURS. as in, you get to CS to hold the lane if/when they arrive. even if you got all 3 proc's off, you only gain up to 66 gold. that's the same value as simply collecting ~3 minions or a single cannon minion that your ADC already wold have missed. therefore technically the only gold your actually missing is the gold from harassing them in addition to killing the CS with it. which is actually made right back up by simply waiting for the ADC to come back before spending the proc's. therefore this technically isn't actually making you lose any gold at all. it just takes a bit more time for you to collect said gold.

When your moving to ward, you don't have to be as glued to the ADC as it implies, as 1500 range is very generous. for comparisons sake, know a rank 1 Ryze ult has a cast range of 1750 (indicated by the outermost circle):

https://imgur.com/a/Ub9H5um

new spell thief's is just 250 units less then the range displayed above. therefore, you're free to ward or shoot a skill shot into a bush, and still gain a proc if you hit something (assuming anything is even there)

now, the only gold you actually lose is if you run into a 1v1 skirmish while transitioning to a roam, or when going for a deep ward solo. so therefore to compensate, you're given 1-2 extra gold for every ability you land in lane which is guaranteed. mind you, there isn't even a guarantee you would run into another champion to begin with, but you get 1-2 gold for the majority of the time you spend in lane. once you actually get to the roam location ofc there will be an ally there, so you still gain proc's. and you're smarter then most to know if the jungler is nearby its probably not the best time to deep ward, so even as it is currently you wouldn't have gained the gold from finding + shooting at him anyway.

in essence, the change actually doesn't affect supports in general very much, but actually successfully guts the 0 CS toplane strat. the only difference is you wait like 3-4 extra seconds to get the gold. is that really that much of a crippling change?

also for enchanter supports such as nami, lulu, janna, etc, your play style does not change as much as most would imply, as no matter what you would be right next to and protecting your ADC anyway.

Yes but a good amount of ADC's are aware they can troll their support this way too.

BlueBilberry2/26/2020, 2:52:24 AM1 votes

Yes, this is an old post, but the idea is back once again for spellthief/sickle.

Simply:

  1. If you have a timid adc, then you are screwed as support.
  2. If you have an adc that feeds or repeatedly mispositions and dies, then you are screwed as support.
  3. If you are playing an enchanter in a losing lane where the adc is inept, then you are screwed as support.
  4. If you are playing a support which is not a tank, then you are screwed as support.

Pure and simple, it means that once again, Riot thinks of helping supports as an afterthought - after dealing with the other roles/lanes. This is once again an example of why we as support mains can't have nice things. Not only are we left with terrible utility items, have to make do with less gold than other lanes, and this season have to make do with less xp (meaning that a support which does his/her job will be 2-3 levels behind the other roles - especially this season where the xp sharing really punishes supports), but now the horrible support items they left us with this season are now being made even worse. Great! Bravo Riot! (sarcasm intended)

Is this your solution to getting more players playing jungle in lower tiers? Have them quit playing in the botlane, period? Are you saying that more of us support and adc mains should follow Tyler1 out of botlane and start playing jungle? Please Riot - stop treating the botlane as the entertainment and punching bag of other lanes...