@Meddler: Do you have a moment to talk about Lux?

darkdill·Jun 9, 2015·40 votes·17,957 views

Two things about Lux REALLY bother me.

Lux can't pre-detonate her E like Gragas can for his Q or Ziggs can for his W. This lets tons of kills slip away because your target barely slipped out of the AOE before you could even give a detonation command. You're generally left waiting 0.1-0.2 seconds after Lucent Singularity reaches its destination before you can detonate it.
Lux only gets the first application of her shield at the end of its cast animation, not at the beginning. That 0.1-0.15 second delay has killed me more times than I'd like.

However, whenever I bring these up, people seem to raise their pitchforks and torches at me, and say that those delays are intentional. That can't be right, right? I mean, Lux has enough counters already, why should she be held further back by tech-based clunkiness? That just sucks ass, IMO.

68 Comments

RiotMeddlerJun 9, 201555 votes

Pre-detonate on Lux E is something we've got on our backlog and will add at somepoint. It will add a bit of power, but should give a clear feel improvement and help out players with higher pings. Should be a pretty straight forward change, I'll see where it's up to, that's one we should have got in previously.

Shield application at end of cast's currently intended functionality, rather than a bug. Having said that I do agree that there's a noticeable feel cost there, given almost every other shield in the game is immediate. I'll pass that suggestion on to the balance team, see if they've got any concerns about bundling it with the pre-detonate change.

JakojoJun 9, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Pre-detonate on Lux E is something we've got on our backlog and will add at somepoint. It will add a bit of power, but should give a clear feel improvement and help out players with higher pings. Should be a pretty straight forward change, I'll see where it's up to, that's one we should have got in previously.

Shield application at end of cast's currently intended functionality, rather than a bug. Having said that I do agree that there's a noticeable feel cost there, given almost every other shield in the game is immediate. I'll pass that suggestion on to the balance team, see if they've got any concerns about bundling it with the pre-detonate change.

Do you have any plans on reducing her mana costs? Most notably on her E. With the mana regen changes Lux took a hit and can't reliably farm with her E.

PetiroiJun 9, 20154 votes

Lux isn't supposed to be able to clean a group of creeps with one spammable spell like Ziggs and Xerath can do once the spell is rank 5 IF they have enough AP (Large Rod for Luden's or Rabadon). Lux isn't build that way. Instead she can farm them with just 1 E + 1 boosted auto-attack (thanks to her passive) on each minion pretty early in the game without having to build tons of AP (Calice for Grail). But that's just my PoV, I wonder how Riot feels about that.

darkdillJun 9, 20155 votes

There's another issue with Lux's E being so costly: it lets a lot of other opponents simply out-siege her by outgunning her. Xerath walks all over Lux because he can fire his spells pretty much infinitely with his passive, Ziggs can easily outgun her with his Q's, Zed and Katarina can both push Lux and are both manaless, etc.

Even once you get Chalice, Lux's mana problems don't just go away. And even if she's using her E+passive combo against minions, that doesn't guarantee that you'll kill them until you get some actual AP.

RiotMeddlerJun 9, 201518 votes

We feel a high mana cost on Lux's E is necessary, given its range and size of explosion. That mana limit's actually going to be a bit more important too after the pre-detonate change, given that will increase Lux's ability to land the E under some circumstances.

HellioningJun 9, 20154 votes

Speaking of mana, what's your opinion (either Riot 'you' or your personal opinion) on the current state of mana? A lot of the recent changes have gotten people pretty upset, like the utility tree changes. Do you think that mana users and non-mana users are in a pretty decent spot in comparison to each other?

RetillinJun 9, 20155 votes

Is there a way that her E can be given a stronger outline? It is so hard to see in a LOT of areas/maps/fights. There are times I see her cast it, but can not see where it lands.

darkdillJun 9, 20152 votes

Well if it's a choice between mana costs or pre-detonation, I'll go with pre-detonate.

haywire androidJun 9, 20155 votes

Any chance of updating her particles to make them more clear? I've always seen the delay on her E as an trade off for giving the opponents a decent chance to notice the transparent particles.

Personally while playing against a Lux I feel like I'm fighting the graphics more than the actual opponent.

(Or perhaps add a "clearer skill shots mode" similar to colour blind mode.)

Buffy432Jun 9, 20154 votes

I agree with a high mana cost, but Lux has a really hard time right now with all the nerfs to mana you guys have been pushing through. I think high is necessary, but 100 seems much more fair. Alternatively, you could consider buffing mana in general, because Lux is definitely not the only "standard" mana mage suffering right now.

Sightless66Jun 10, 20151 votes

I get that it has to be high, but does it have to be this high? It's not really in-line with other spells that are similarly difficult to dodge, and the rest of her spells aren't exactly cheap to cast either. I think she could be given a little leniency here and still be heavily mana-gated.

Alchemist PrimeJun 11, 20151 votes

But Meddler could you ask the team how they feel about her lack of mobility as well? Such as being "rooted" when she casts her [W] Shield and [E] while other champions can use spells and move around (Morgana Black Shield) without pausing.

Pausing to Snare or to [E] AND Shield is literally enough time for someone chasing (Udyr, Hecarim) to stun or prock knock-back effect. Thx

LücJun 13, 20151 votes

I understand the mana costs as there is alot of power packed into her E. But can you speak to her mana pool/regen. Right now shes a mage with high mana costs, low mana pool, low mana regen and no active way (like proccing her passive) of restoring her mana.

I also agree on making the outline of her E more defined.

SnowspriteJun 15, 20151 votes

It's already undodgeable with even as low as 26 ping. It should actually telegraph with animation startup frames, or have slower travel time. It comes out and travels and detonates so quickly that it might as well be a long range directly targeted ability. Increasing ability to land the most undodgeable skillshot in the game seems like the opposite of the direction it should be going.

This is one of those moments where I'm reading something so surreal that I wonder if I'm awake lol

Dies to WolvesJun 9, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Pre-detonate on Lux E is something we've got on our backlog and will add at somepoint. It will add a bit of power, but should give a clear feel improvement and help out players with higher pings. Should be a pretty straight forward change, I'll see where it's up to, that's one we should have got in previously.

Shield application at end of cast's currently intended functionality, rather than a bug. Having said that I do agree that there's a noticeable feel cost there, given almost every other shield in the game is immediate. I'll pass that suggestion on to the balance team, see if they've got any concerns about bundling it with the pre-detonate change.

since you're into that whole "feel" and "every other in the game" thing now, can you guys make talon's W come back to him after he dies? Currently the blades just disappear if he dies while his W is middair (his Ult too; I think if he dies during ult it should instantly close, rather than have the blades just go out). When Ahri got really popular, you guys changed her Q to work like that - it used to work (that is, not work) like talon's; Gnar's Q works like that I think. Ekko's Q works like that, so on.

RavenHuskyJun 9, 20158 votes

Can you also look into reducing the mana cost on Lucent Singularity? Because 130 mana at rank five is a bit ridiculous considering that it's Lux's primary damage ability, as well as early mana regen getting nerfed on 21/0/9 mastery builds hurting a bit as well.

Lynbro SenpaiJun 9, 20155 votes

It's been brought up below I see, but I'll just mention two things that bother people the most about Lux at the moment. -E mana cost is too high -She cannot finish off caster minions with one E, whereas other poke/siege mages such as Xerath, Ziggs etc. can do so with one spell or an AoE combo.

These are two of the biggest complaints I see about Lux and I would REALLY appreciate it if either you or somebody on the balance team could give us an idea of what you feel about these two issues.

Pre-detonate Lux E is awesome though, can't wait till that hits live~

PetiroiJun 9, 20154 votes

Lux isn't supposed to be able to clean a group of creeps with one spammable spell like Ziggs and Xerath can do once the spell is rank 5 IF they have enough AP (Large Rod for Luden's or Rabadon). Lux isn't build that way. Instead she can farm them with just 1 E + 1 boosted auto-attack (thanks to her passive) on each minion pretty early in the game without having to build tons of AP (Calice for Grail). But that's just my PoV, I wonder how Riot feels about that.

darkdillJun 9, 20153 votes

Realistically, Lux will only be able to get off 4 attacks before Illumination fades off the remaining minions, and even then she's not guaranteed to kill the minions with her E and passive alone. That's why she has such a big problem farming unless she uses her laser, which is not advised.

FrozenNJun 9, 20154 votes

That's really cool, I love playing Lux, and with those little change it can improve the gameplay so much, thanks !

Vistha KaiJun 9, 20156 votes

Then what's left for Lux is making detonation AoE and slow AoE the same, because right now you can get damaged outside the circle without being slowed.

RiotMeddlerJun 9, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aTnF05GE,comment-id=00000006,timestamp=2015-06-09T13:52:38.112+0000)

Then what's left for Lux is making detonation AoE and slow AoE the same, because right now you can get damaged outside the circle without being slowed.

Ah gotcha. We'll give that a look too, little bit misleading misleading having slightly different values there.

Finales FunkelnJun 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Ah gotcha. We'll give that a look too, little bit misleading misleading having slightly different values there.

This is no longer true as of the change to her E's hitbox, it was changed so that the circle around the e is now ACTUAL size, and no longer hurts or slows anything past that size. It is very noticable to anyone who plays Lux, also I think pre-detonating would be very nice seeing as Grag has it and I can't e with 120 ping consistently.

Alchemist PrimeJun 11, 20151 votes

As a Lux main, i definitely noticed this. Felt like I missed alot more recently too... The pre-detonation addition should solve this >:D

Mr Broken WingsJun 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ah gotcha. We'll give that a look too, little bit misleading misleading having slightly different values there.

I really feel like her zone potential is already big. If you give her the ability to instantly detonate e then you cant dodge a lux e without a mobility spell, is that correct? Like a good lux already nearly hit all her e spells, I think that would completly overbuff her laningphase. ( I love playing lux but I kinda feel that this would make her extremly cancerous in lane.)

Vistha KaiJun 15, 20151 votes

It already doesn't make any difference for low-medium ping players. The difference between low ping and being able to prime E in-flight isn't noticeable for a human eye, anyway.

Daedalus871Jun 9, 20155 votes

Hi there Meddler. I want to urge caution at buffing Lux's E, as it's currently the most frustrating thing about Lux to play against. I dodge her snare most of the time, but between the range and speed of Lucent Singularity, it's difficult to dodge. That would be tolerable if it wasn't relatively high damaging, but it is. She would also be that much safer while harassing.

The visual might not be matching up with the indicator as I seem to take damage even though I am outside it. Also, it's not all that visible when she throws it.

Although she could use the shield change.

DownfallJun 9, 20155 votes

Hey Meddler, thanks for being more active here on forums :) I enjoy knowing that you do work on these things consider some of the changes that we want.

ShadowParkerJun 9, 20156 votes

Have you ever considered adding vision to targets hit with her passive?

Lady SeptimusJun 9, 20152 votes

oh my gosh yes! this is a great idea, the passive is called "illumination" so why shouldn't it give vision ;o would be so nice if you get a spell off and the person is low but they go into the fog and you dont know where to lasor :c

darkdillJun 9, 20153 votes

Nice. Glad to hear the pre-detonate is a definite. Any power increase as a result from it won't be TOO nasty, as Lux's E damage isn't actually that deadly on its own, given its mana cost and cooldown. Other Champions can easily out-damage it with their abilities. And even though Lux can proc Illumination afterwards, that requires her taking a big risk against some opponents.

As for the shield... the delay was intentional? Ouch, poor Lux. I've died as her so many times because that last Ignite tick or incoming shot came in while I was in the middle of Prismatic Barrier's cast wind-up, and dealt the killing blow before the shield came up. Gotta tell you, that just feels so bad when you die because of an "intended delay". I would change the self-shield to being immediate in a heartbeat.

And speaking of hearts...
http://imgur.com/t2ka7SM

RielyJun 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pre-detonate on Lux E is something we've got on our backlog and will add at somepoint. It will add a bit of power, but should give a clear feel improvement and help out players with higher pings. Should be a pretty straight forward change, I'll see where it's up to, that's one we should have got in previously.

Shield application at end of cast's currently intended functionality, rather than a bug. Having said that I do agree that there's a noticeable feel cost there, given almost every other shield in the game is immediate. I'll pass that suggestion on to the balance team, see if they've got any concerns about bundling it with the pre-detonate change.

Happiness, I may be able to play Lux again in the unknown future. ^__^

ThunderkegJun 9, 20151 votes

If that's what is keeping you from playing Lux then you weren't a big Lux fan in the first place...

RielyJun 10, 20151 votes

haha no well kinda...really zigs is what prevents me from lux

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 12, 20151 votes

Really hope you guys do, I have been playing lux during free week and love her poke/dmg potential. I was looking at picking up ziggs, but now can't decide because I really like lux ult in the jungle, so good at dealing w/ people coming to contest drag/baron walking through choke points. Maybe I should just wait for this patch to come out and maybe I'll have the IP to buy one by then instead of making the decision based on which one hits RP sale first ha.

The Master BaitJun 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pre-detonate on Lux E is something we've got on our backlog and will add at somepoint. It will add a bit of power, but should give a clear feel improvement and help out players with higher pings. Should be a pretty straight forward change, I'll see where it's up to, that's one we should have got in previously.

Shield application at end of cast's currently intended functionality, rather than a bug. Having said that I do agree that there's a noticeable feel cost there, given almost every other shield in the game is immediate. I'll pass that suggestion on to the balance team, see if they've got any concerns about bundling it with the pre-detonate change.

I just want to say thank you so much for working on these. After playing at least 1k Lux games over the past couple years I'm am so excited to see these changes hit PBE and I can't wait to get home to test them out. I feel that these changes aren't enough to bring her to FOTM but that she will still be a sleeper pick in mid with her strong wave clear and aoe damage and strong peel for extended team fights. You have made my day even though I'm a few days behind.

N3mO06Jun 9, 201510 votes

Ok, Lux's e will be undodgeble skill......so happy!

Alchemist PrimeJun 11, 20151 votes

I'm a Lux main - I'm too happy about this. Speaking I hit my [E] 90% of the time in lane already. YESSSSSS

MacDthreeJun 9, 20153 votes

I really wish there were any other game where some cry baby player who was having a hard time or made a few rough plays can go "OMG WHEN ARE YOU GONNA DO THIS. EVERYTHING ELSE IS OP I'M UNDERPOWERED SEND HELP" and they'd just up and change it.

That instant detonate is going to be followed by some horrid nerf.

GalaxyMenaceJun 9, 20153 votes

Seriously

Let's buff Lux like crazy so she can be nerfed. Seriously, why don't we just stay quiet on our champion and let Ekko mains take all the nerfs?

Eternity TheoryJun 11, 20153 votes

As a Lux main for two years now who has played her above other champions, I've also felt the pain of her W's cast-time leaving me out to dry. But more than just getting an adjustment on her shield timing, I'd really love to see her gain a bit more mobility there... namely, being able to move without stopping when she casts W.

This is a small change that could become a huge boon for Lux players. So many champions are able to shield, heal, etc. without stopping their movement, and thus can escape death without having to pause for their survival. Lux is already very slow movement-wise and is easy enough for many champions to chase down, it'd be nice if she didn't have to slow herself even more when grasping at life.

darkdillJun 11, 20152 votes

That'd be cool too, but I wonder what Meddler has to say about this idea. Too much safety? Intended cast time?

Alchemist PrimeJun 11, 20151 votes

Yeah... I can see that without having to pause for her cast times. She can escape more easily. I hate how most mid champions except her have escapes and shes low on mobility and honestly those cast times to me are literally like .25 roots :(