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Patching Up Yorick.

DragonShea··2 votes·1,322 views

Hi all. this is a post that I am doing in response to" @Meddler, can we talk about the state of Yorick?" by GA Aviril and what I think would be a good way to fixing some issue yorick has. Yorick is not broken but he is in need of some tuning in his playstyle because he is too reliant on his ghouls and maiden to win fights. With his ult, you are fucked 1v1, without it Yorick better have his ghouls with him if he is gonna hurt someone. This binary playstyle means that Yorick has too little impact without them and he really needs a shift in his power budget if he is going to be more healthy.

Known issues:

  • Too reliant on ghouls and maiden

  • E' is poor for poking in spite of % HP damage

  • Maiden has too long CD and doesn't countdown after summon, but after death.

  • Some issues with sustain.

One way I believe that could happen is if his E can summon ghouls based on his ult ranks so he can consistently have ghouls up since his Q is fine abidite could need a missing % HP heal

Allowing Yorick's E to summon ghouls based on his ult's level would greatly empower increase it's relevancy outside his ults CD, making it more rewarding to land. since it's meant to summon and tag ghouls while also making more useful after the laning phase. since you don't need a minion wave just to get ghouls if that happens then maybe weaken the power of his ghouls bit so he doesn't get OP.

Tooltip example:

Mourning mist

Yorick hurls a globule of Black Mist that splashes across an off-centered area, dealing 15% of target's current health magic damage to all enemies hit, down to a minimum threshold.

Affected enemy champions and monsters are stunned for 0.25 seconds then slowed by 30% for 2 seconds, and marked for 4 seconds, during which Yorick gains 20% bonus movement speed when moving towards them and if Yorick hits an enemy champion. He will summon 1(+ 1 per rank in Eulogy of the Isles)Ghoul(s) around the marked target.

BTW Old Yorick always had his Ghouls with him so why shouldn't the new Yorick also?

Anyway hope you like this post. Peace

24 Comments

Meep Man1 votes

Too reliant on ghouls and maiden

This is not an issue. It's his kit and niche.

DragonShea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aMtB20FE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-27T15:19:28.975+0000)

This is not an issue. It's his kit and niche.

so-so Yorick is every binary. maybe too much for some. but for me. I am cool with that, although sometimes not having my ghouls on hand can be annoying-

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

so-so Yorick is every binary. maybe too much for some. but for me. I am cool with that, although sometimes not having my ghouls on hand can be annoying-

either way you look at it, the current yorick is much better then the old one

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

either way you look at it, the current yorick is much better then the old one

lol

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

lol

hey the old yorick was one of two ways, either you were a feeding and doing really bad because you didnt know how to really play him, or you couldnt be stopped even againest champions that were straight counters for him since turrets didnt target his ghouls.

really boring game play it was, this yorick now is much more fun

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

hey the old yorick was one of two ways, either you were a feeding and doing really bad because you didnt know how to really play him, or you couldnt be stopped even againest champions that were straight counters for him since turrets didnt target his ghouls.

really boring game play it was, this yorick now is much more fun

Didn't mean any disrespect.

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

Didn't mean any disrespect.

i know i was just pointing out the way yorick worked before the rework that was all

Bjornack1 votes

honestly the current version on yorick is fine, its more about thinking how to utilize his ghouls and maiden rather then just spamming them all the time.

as far as the cooldown on the maiden goes, it used to start when it was summoned but they felt that it was to fast that way since you could pop it in lane and forget it letting it split push and help your team so they made it so the cooldown starts after the maiden dies.

that being said, his kit may be a bit heavy on relying on ghouls, yes. but only until about a little into mid game then it really doesnt matter.

however if you look at it like this, he plays a bit like kalista, being strong when attack the same target as the maiden and his ghouls which is similar to kalista being strong when near her soul bound ally

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

honestly the current version on yorick is fine, its more about thinking how to utilize his ghouls and maiden rather then just spamming them all the time.

as far as the cooldown on the maiden goes, it used to start when it was summoned but they felt that it was to fast that way since you could pop it in lane and forget it letting it split push and help your team so they made it so the cooldown starts after the maiden dies.

that being said, his kit may be a bit heavy on relying on ghouls, yes. but only until about a little into mid game then it really doesnt matter.

however if you look at it like this, he plays a bit like kalista, being strong when attack the same target as the maiden and his ghouls which is similar to kalista being strong when near her soul bound ally

Good comparison. I wasn't bitching about change X,Y,Z about Yorick. just adding suggestions on how to make him a bit more health since people bitched about him.

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

Good comparison. I wasn't bitching about change X,Y,Z about Yorick. just adding suggestions on how to make him a bit more health since people bitched about him.

you see, alot of people will complain about something being overpowerd when they do not know how to deal with it themselves and they end up saying he needs a change, nerf or rework, honestly right now yorick is ok.

the suggestions are not that bad however, adding a stun on his e would make him borken with how fast he would secure kills, but then again that also goes along with playing with his minions.

and he doesnt need to have a buff to the damage on black mist, since his ghouls are buffed when they attack the marked champion.

nice suggestion all the same though

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

you see, alot of people will complain about something being overpowerd when they do not know how to deal with it themselves and they end up saying he needs a change, nerf or rework, honestly right now yorick is ok.

the suggestions are not that bad however, adding a stun on his e would make him borken with how fast he would secure kills, but then again that also goes along with playing with his minions.

and he doesnt need to have a buff to the damage on black mist, since his ghouls are buffed when they attack the marked champion.

nice suggestion all the same though

Well as an example. I didn't bitch about Illaoi being OP as fuck on the boards because I couldn't beat her, I just learned that her attacks are slow and telegraphed and her E is the only thing that makes her a threat. after that I learned that punishing her after she missed her E or Q is key to winning against her.

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

Well as an example. I didn't bitch about Illaoi being OP as fuck on the boards because I couldn't beat her, I just learned that her attacks are slow and telegraphed and her E is the only thing that makes her a threat. after that I learned that punishing her after she missed her E or Q is key to winning against her.

well yes illoai is still a pain but its alot better now then it was when she was release i mean that debuff from her e if you managed to get caught by it being a 1min duration before that was a bit too over the top for a release of a new champion dont you think. and that was something that had to be changed.

sure alot of people complained about her being too OP, but it was a needed complaint since it was drawing attention to an ability that was OP even by Riot's standards.

and im not saying you are bitching about anything, i actually agree that yorick could use a tweak but nothing too drastic because he feels pretty good at the moment

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

well yes illoai is still a pain but its alot better now then it was when she was release i mean that debuff from her e if you managed to get caught by it being a 1min duration before that was a bit too over the top for a release of a new champion dont you think. and that was something that had to be changed.

sure alot of people complained about her being too OP, but it was a needed complaint since it was drawing attention to an ability that was OP even by Riot's standards.

and im not saying you are bitching about anything, i actually agree that yorick could use a tweak but nothing too drastic because he feels pretty good at the moment

Well I meant I didn't go on a 12 year old rant here about losing to Illaoi that some juggernauts kill rape your ass if you try and go up in their faces, Illaoi is the queen of that, so loses out of being a threat outside having a zone of power or if you kill off her tentacles.

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

Well I meant I didn't go on a 12 year old rant here about losing to Illaoi that some juggernauts kill rape your ass if you try and go up in their faces, Illaoi is the queen of that, so loses out of being a threat outside having a zone of power or if you kill off her tentacles.

well yes i agree, although i will say they should shorten her tenticle range just a tad but thats my thought on the subject.

either way like i said you did have a point

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

well yes i agree, although i will say they should shorten her tenticle range just a tad but thats my thought on the subject.

either way like i said you did have a point

yep and so do you.

Oleandervine1 votes

Part of his kit would have to be gutted if he could freely summon ghouls with E.

Additionally, _there is an extremely valid reason that the Maiden's CD starts with her death _- This is so that you won't be infinitely sending her down the lane. If her CD started on cast, it could easily be back up again at the time of her death, meaning you could apply ceaseless lane pressure down a lane you're not physically in and force opponents to constantly fight back against your split pushing presence. This kind of power is not available to any champion, because if a champion is trying to force a response to a split push, they are basically causing 4v5 team fights without their presence.

Yorick is intended to rely mostly on his ghouls for damage - that's his forte. He's the battle necromancer, and as part of his gameplay and identity, his solo powers should suffer if he's not accompanied by his minions. If you buffed him to be strong without minions or in a way that freely gives him minions, he would fly off the charts.

Yorick is fine as he is. He takes finesse to use properly, and if you're having trouble, train with him more. I've obliterated several people with him, and you can use the Maiden offensively as well, considering that you get %HP damage against enemies who she's also targeting. You can't go balls deep with him and just start kicking teeth in - you've got to organize and prepare to win with Yorick.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Part of his kit would have to be gutted if he could freely summon ghouls with E.

Additionally, _there is an extremely valid reason that the Maiden's CD starts with her death _- This is so that you won't be infinitely sending her down the lane. If her CD started on cast, it could easily be back up again at the time of her death, meaning you could apply ceaseless lane pressure down a lane you're not physically in and force opponents to constantly fight back against your split pushing presence. This kind of power is not available to any champion, because if a champion is trying to force a response to a split push, they are basically causing 4v5 team fights without their presence.

Yorick is intended to rely mostly on his ghouls for damage - that's his forte. He's the battle necromancer, and as part of his gameplay and identity, his solo powers should suffer if he's not accompanied by his minions. If you buffed him to be strong without minions or in a way that freely gives him minions, he would fly off the charts.

Yorick is fine as he is. He takes finesse to use properly, and if you're having trouble, train with him more. I've obliterated several people with him, and you can use the Maiden offensively as well, considering that you get %HP damage against enemies who she's also targeting. You can't go balls deep with him and just start kicking teeth in - you've got to organize and prepare to win with Yorick.

And yet people are talking to me like I don't have a clue and I just making a suggestion based on my play as him, dickheadness aside. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

I am fully aware of that. and the reason for the CD. Maiden of the Mist is very powerful and can easily score yorick a triple kill and prepare is key like you said. I know that as yorick I'd rather wait and get some ghouls for a teamfight or save my ult for it so I can have some crazy damage with it. if you are not a dash champion or it's on CD and W-E-Q combo is death sentence.

I have played Yorick enough to know about his ins and outs and that Fiora and Jax are lethal counters to him.

Pupel1 votes

I don't mind Yorick being dependant on ghouls because it gives him clear windows of powers. However I feel it is too hard to summon ghouls when you need them. I would like to see some of the ult CD go on CD when the maiden is alive so that keeping her alive is rewarded.

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

I don't mind Yorick being dependant on ghouls because it gives him clear windows of powers. However I feel it is too hard to summon ghouls when you need them. I would like to see some of the ult CD go on CD when the maiden is alive so that keeping her alive is rewarded.

well i think i said this in my reply before about the maiden, but i remember playing the day he went live when the maiden went on cd when she was summoned, basically when she was killed i was going to get her back in under 30seconds, its was too fast given how much damage yorick was doing with her summoned, so rito decided to make her go on cd when she died to smooth things out some since, and i reference my other reply for this, yorick is buffed in the same way so to speak as kalista is with her black speared ally near by for her

Pupel1 votes

{quoted}

well i think i said this in my reply before about the maiden, but i remember playing the day he went live when the maiden went on cd when she was summoned, basically when she was killed i was going to get her back in under 30seconds, its was too fast given how much damage yorick was doing with her summoned, so rito decided to make her go on cd when she died to smooth things out some since, and i reference my other reply for this, yorick is buffed in the same way so to speak as kalista is with her black speared ally near by for her

I know what you are saying and I am not saying it should go on CD as soon as she is summoned but rather have a PORTION on the CD count down

Bjornack1 votes

{quoted}

I know what you are saying and I am not saying it should go on CD as soon as she is summoned but rather have a PORTION on the CD count down

if you did that then you might as well just give her a shorter CD all together.

now if you were going to say that if the maiden kills a turret or champion, then her cd would refund 10% i could see that, but just being on a shorter cd or having a portion refunded when summoned would be like when yorick was first released

Veraska1 votes

Yorick is pretty well designed right now in my opinion, his ghouls having the downtime they do allows them to be stronger. His ghouls being a big part of his damage makes him more fair then the other juggernauts (try fighting a garen or darius as a squish melee champion) and the ghouls reinforce his split push gameplay (weaker in teamfights is an intended weakness)

Yorick winrate last I checked was above 50% so he probably doesn't need any straight power buffs but some of his issues could be solved with a mechanics tweak like making his ghouls smart enough to attack what you're attacking

His sustain and extended downtime on ghouls could be adjusted with a cooldown buff on Q

NastyMcOutplay1 votes

i like this

Ðelofasht1 votes

As I have stated in several other threads, I am a Yorick main and feel that his biggest issue is the distribution of power right now. Currently so much of his power is tied up in his Ultimate, meaning without it he is much weaker. In order to redistribute the power around some, it might be good to remove the mistwalkers that come with the Maiden, since she can generate them in a short time when summoned in a lane or near a jungle camp. This reduction of power allows him to get a cooldown that is more fair for such a powerful super AI unit, but in turn it is still a reduction in overall power so he would need to get access to more mistwalker production from somewhere. I suggest Dark Procession generating 1/1/2/2/3 graves when it decays or is destroyed, this gives him access to graves on demand in many situations where he would have needed to save his Ultimate to have them, while also telegraphing the production to the enemy. It strictly bolsters a skill that is often ignored by enemy champions because they can dash through it (or late game several players can hit it once and it's instantly gone).

In short, Yorick's entire kit is supposed to revolve around the mistwalkers and Maiden, but Dark Procession doesn't really hit that and his Ultimate holds too much power thus the cooldown needs to be too long.

In regards to your comments as to being too reliant on the walkers and Maiden, I disagree it is his signature, what makes him Yorick and not just some other juggernaut. He should be reliant on them, but there too, they should get more powerful as he does, currently they scale with his level (no choices here, just level up), and with his AD and Health. I think they could double dip on his AD to make the walkers attack faster based on his total AD, thus they still get stronger with level and base AD, but building AD makes them attack faster AND do more damage. This would make their damage more reliable as currently they only get that attack speed with level, and that could be completely removed if they instead scale with his AD purely. This coupled with the proposed Dark Procession graves generation would solve the entire issue with having walkers when needed and also them doing damage appropriately, since they are more likely to get an auto or two in with faster attacking from AD while also benefitting from better scaling into late game and providing different build options as well.

Also, I want to disagree with Mourning Mist being too low damage, maxing it first as opposed to Last Rites first is a huge boost in overall pressure in lane. Last Rites is going to do a lot of damage regardless of whether you max it, all you get from maxing it first is slightly faster graves generation provided you have minions to hit in the first place, and a mere 100 extra damage (as opposed to Mourning Mist which gains 140 damage from base to max and having more frequent casts of it available due to greater reduction in seconds of cooldown). The number of kills I have gotten on enemies who thought they were safely away when I hit them with another Mourning Mist under their tower is massive, they just do not expect that 200 damage ranged hit from Yorick, assuming it's only 15% of their current health or 70 damage maximum. . . not when you max it first!

Lastly, his sustain does feel weak in lane. I have been opting to buy an early Vamp Scepter (starting long sword 3x health pots to support this route), and that has been working out extremely well for me, eventually turning it into a Death's Dance provides a huge amount of AD to make all the walkers hit harder and make his Maiden hit harder as well.

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