Isn't the point of shields to reduce burst damage?

TrikzterzArma·Oct 24, 2018·93 votes·19,132 views

So why add a rune that gives you more damage when getting shielded? Why? I really don't understand why the game needs this rune

71 Comments

Warlord RhinarkOct 24, 201847 votes

I'm still waiting for the ~~Go Fast~~ Sorcery tree to get updated.

I miss Deathfire Touch.

TrikzterzArmaOct 24, 201830 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLjXgnwV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-24T09:29:41.333+0000)

I'm still waiting for the ~~Go Fast~~ Sorcery tree to get updated.

I miss Deathfire Touch.

I miss the old masteries

GigglesOOct 24, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I miss the old masteries

I miss S1 masteries

TheSingularityOct 24, 20181 votes

DANG IT YOU ACTIVATED MY NOSTALGIA FEELS! HOW ON EARTH CAN I BE EXPECTED TO FUNCTION NOW?!!!!!!!!

GlaricionOct 24, 20183 votes

I remember when I thought the -2 damage from creeps and minions mastery was pointless and stupid.

Oh how we grow.

AmenPersonOct 24, 201813 votes

It was probably made with the idea of tanks being the only champions that will use this, specifically Nautilus, Sion, Malphite, etc. I'm guessing to help with their lane trades. But Riot likes to think too linear, and that whatever they make for one class will only be used for that class.

WolfeurOct 24, 20188 votes

"If shields are made to prevent burst on you, why do you deal more constant damage with them?"

https://i.imgur.com/0CCBHhF.jpg

MetallikaiserOct 24, 20188 votes

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. This isnt meant nor is it ideal on champs that have purely defensive shields or use it as such like say Janna or Riven/Rumble playing passively. Its meant for those who use their shields to aggressively trade like Nautilus/Sion/Jarvan.

Gentleman GemsOct 24, 20186 votes

It's also for my Top lane Taric

FSREROct 24, 20181 votes

Wondering why shen is not here when he is the biggest example alongside with urgot. Damn toplane starts to look really bad.

MetallikaiserOct 24, 20181 votes

Thats just a my bad, he absolutely would be a prime example. I dont think Urgot would get great use out of it though since purge makes on hit damage be dropped to a third.

Weiner the PoohOct 24, 20181 votes

Those characters don't need the bonus damage tho. The rune is flawed. Sion/Naut/Jarvan they dont need even more damage. They're engage/peel characters not assassins or carries. Characters that lockdown and peel have no business also bursting people, especially through gimmicky outside sources.

Iota ThetaOct 24, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name= Irrompible,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLjXgnwV,comment-id=000d0002,timestamp=2018-10-24T20:38:58.141+0000)

Those characters don't need the bonus damage tho. The rune is flawed. Sion/Naut/Jarvan they dont need even more damage. They're engage/peel characters not assassins or carries. Characters that lockdown and peel have no business also bursting people, especially through gimmicky outside sources.

I highly doubt those champs will start bursting people with this rune with the damage it’s currently supposed to deal.

Killer of Night9Oct 24, 20186 votes

waiting NB3 for 1k shield ap blitz passive oneshot or bunnyfufu for omg shield sion teamcomp oneshot the enemy carry

Noor SakataOct 24, 20185 votes

It's a rune for Tanks against tanks , not like the damage is that huge , I think

AmenPersonOct 24, 20186 votes

Damage isn't that big on champs that aren't tanks, since it has bonus Health scalings, and shield amount scalings. Which means it'll be a nice extra bit of poke for tanks, since most shields on tanks scale off of max or bonus health.

TrikzterzArmaOct 24, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Damage isn't that big on champs that aren't tanks, since it has bonus Health scalings, and shield amount scalings. Which means it'll be a nice extra bit of poke for tanks, since most shields on tanks scale off of max or bonus health.

Tanks doesn't need more damage. They need more defence

AmenPersonOct 24, 20185 votes

They don't though. Tanks are most common in Top lane, which is also home to fighters, and their rune, Conqueror. Gaining bonus defense and resistance in laning phase doesn't mean anything when the person they're laning against can ignore 20% of their defense.

Tanks are in a weird spot because of that, and currently the only tank that consistently does well in Top lane no matter what it seems, is Sion.

TrikzterzArmaOct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They don't though. Tanks are most common in Top lane, which is also home to fighters, and their rune, Conqueror. Gaining bonus defense and resistance in laning phase doesn't mean anything when the person they're laning against can ignore 20% of their defense.

Tanks are in a weird spot because of that, and currently the only tank that consistently does well in Top lane no matter what it seems, is Sion.

Tanks aren't supposed to be used at the toplane though, as they have too low damage. They should be played as supports or junglers, because of their good cc

Iota ThetaOct 24, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Tanks aren't supposed to be used at the toplane though, as they have too low damage. They should be played as supports or junglers, because of their good cc

Low damage makes for poor junglers because of clear speed. So what it sounds like you’re saying is...tanks should only be support. The base damage they have is mostly used for cs anyway.

AwoofOct 24, 20181 votes

You know, funny enough the rune that was removed for this technically would help against true damage. So does Sion's latest buff to his HP gain.

If Conqueror is the problem, then give them defences by HP and shields. Then again this might become an arms race that will never work out, and I am inclined to agree that maybe Conqueror has problems.

AmenPersonOct 24, 20181 votes

Actually it wouldn't help against true damage. Bone Plating damage reduction is applied after resistances, while Conqueror is calculated before. And even then, you'd be reducing the non-true damage portion of Conqueror.

But in the end, yes, Conqueror is a problem, but literally only for tanks, because of the % true damage portion. Other classes don't really need to worry about the true damage, like mages or adcs, since they don't build resistances. They would die from a Jax in the same amount of time, Conq or no Conq.

AwoofOct 24, 20181 votes

I'm not sure what you mean with bone plating being applied after resistances, it reduces damage by a flat amount based on your level.

AmenPersonOct 24, 20181 votes

When you look at the 'Notes' on wikia page for Bone Plating, it says, and quote "The damage reduction applies after resistances." So that's what I mean there.

AwoofOct 25, 20181 votes

Yeah but why does that matter in terms of helping against true damage? You take 100 physical damage minus armor and reduce it by 20 or you take 80 physical damage minus armor plus 20 true damage, and still reduce it by 20. It's the same as shields and health which certainly help against true damage.

AmenPersonOct 25, 20181 votes

I am very confused now. You first started saying that this would technically help against true damage, and now you're saying it has no effect on it. At least to me, which I may be interpreting what you're saying incorrectly, it seems like you're saying that. Nothing in the game can help in lowering the damage of true damage, because it is simply that, damage that will always be true.

The only way to technically reduce it is if it scaled off of a stat, and you lowered said stat, reducing the true damage indirectly.

AwoofOct 25, 20181 votes

No, I am saying that flat damage reduction, like shields, help surviving true damage as opposed to resistances that do nothing.

FatedSaviourOct 25, 20181 votes

i can confirm, once this hits live oce, i will be one shotting all of the fucking adcs in the game as full tank sion

Iota ThetaOct 24, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLjXgnwV,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-24T12:52:01.212+0000)

It's a rune for Tanks against tanks , not like the damage is that huge , I think

I calc’d it at one point using Ornn with extreme builds. Level 1 with Doran’s shield and the health stat shard was a hit for 13 damage. Level 18 with 6 Warmog’s, as an extreme was about 182 damage.

Minimac2000Oct 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aLjXgnwV,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-24T12:52:01.212+0000)

It's a rune for Tanks against tanks , not like the damage is that huge , I think

Actually if it keeps the current numbers, it's ~100 dmg on a 4s cd (also cd by innate shield cd so really more like 15s cd) but 100 dmg is sizable and really strong for tanks who rely on base damages to trade at all

Iota ThetaOct 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Actually if it keeps the current numbers, it's ~100 dmg on a 4s cd (also cd by innate shield cd so really more like 15s cd) but 100 dmg is sizable and really strong for tanks who rely on base damages to trade at all

It really depends on when they hit the 100, cause it’s about 13 damage at level 1, and early levels would take a good bit of health. Almost Be better off rushing DMP for an earlier 100 damage spike. A lot of AD champs in top lane will surpass that in their first items.

Noor SakataOct 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Actually if it keeps the current numbers, it's ~100 dmg on a 4s cd (also cd by innate shield cd so really more like 15s cd) but 100 dmg is sizable and really strong for tanks who rely on base damages to trade at all

I mean , if the Tank is alive for 15 seconds then wow , an 8 seconds fight isn't bad either for a tank , usually even as a tank I get deleted by 3 seconds thanks to some keystone

Beatrice fallsOct 24, 20183 votes

Honestly I don't know, it's not even a key stone right ? Added to aftershock it will just make tank deal unecessary burst damage "because"

GrReaper96Oct 24, 20181 votes

The damage isnt even high, definitely not a burst

King LegoOct 24, 20183 votes

"rito damage i too high"

riot then proceeds to make a rune that grants damage when shielded that scales on bonus hp and shield. At this point, Warmong's Armor is going to be an indirect damage buff or something.

Who's allowing all this? Even as a concept it's just stupid...

Doge2020Oct 24, 20181 votes

I agree, I wish they instead slightly reworked Bone Plating so that it is used more on tanks. Maybe lower the damage reduction hard, but also make it scale with max HP up to a cap. That way a full tank or high hp champ can’t reach 100% damage reduction with it. And maybe lower the CD of it so tanks can deal with ranged/poke matchups more.

Maybe also switch the placing of Bone plating with the Overgrowth rune, so that way people have to choose either Demolish or Overgrowth. This would be a really good alternative to the Overgrowth nerf to counter the inting Sion strat.

King LegoOct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree, I wish they instead slightly reworked Bone Plating so that it is used more on tanks. Maybe lower the damage reduction hard, but also make it scale with max HP up to a cap. That way a full tank or high hp champ can’t reach 100% damage reduction with it. And maybe lower the CD of it so tanks can deal with ranged/poke matchups more.

Maybe also switch the placing of Bone plating with the Overgrowth rune, so that way people have to choose either Demolish or Overgrowth. This would be a really good alternative to the Overgrowth nerf to counter the inting Sion strat.

I agree. I wonder if there is even one person in riot's design team who says "no!" to stuff like shield bash. Like who in their right mind would approve this? Who's in charge of what goes in and goes out?!?

GigglesOOct 24, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I really don't understand why the game needs this rune

Because they are still trying to remove defense from the game...

WAZZZUP500Oct 24, 20183 votes

Hol up. Respect for fellow mord main but how does encouraging the use of shields in combat remove defense? A common theme with the comments on this post are that they tunnel vision the damage. Also this rune sounds op on mord.

Beacon AcademyOct 24, 20181 votes

They took away a rune that mitigates damage and replaced it with one that deals damage for certain kits.

Defense was removed. Damage was added.

DrCyanideOct 24, 20182 votes

how does encouraging the use of shields in combat remove defense?

If you're using your shields out of combat, go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

This rune does nothing to increase defenses, it only adds to a champions damage output. We've seen what Riot does when champions step out of line by being too tanky and dealing too much damage - they nerf them first then nerf the problem later.

Seriously, this rune is going to get Nautilus and TahmKench nerfed into the ground, and probably some other champs too.

GigglesOOct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Hol up. Respect for fellow mord main but how does encouraging the use of shields in combat remove defense? A common theme with the comments on this post are that they tunnel vision the damage. Also this rune sounds op on mord.

Because they are trading out a damage reduction rune and replacing it with a bonus damage rune. They are trying to build defense users damage up...

The rune would be great on morde but they don't let him have it. It currently and likely will continue to not function on him.

WAZZZUP500Oct 25, 20181 votes

I'm mainly talking about the champs people play. This rune will encourage more people to play those tankier shield champs like naut, shen, and tahm, and since it doesn't make those champs do as much dmg as jax or yi, there is an average decrease in damage from the game as a whole.

(basically, more tank champs are played, so there is less average damage in the game, the average is the average dmg of all games played)

apollöOct 25, 20182 votes

Riot is trash

Pandemic PunchOct 24, 20181 votes

So many changes to make enchanter supports more and more irrelevant. This takes power away from adc's and much more strength to solo lane carries.

Rip enchanters. You will be missed

AseraanOct 25, 20181 votes

Nope.

FertsaOct 25, 20181 votes

Shield bash does a hilariously low amount if you math it out, 1.5% max hp is real low for a single instance of damage, which is all alot of champions will get from it, 8.5% of the shield value may seem like more but most shields already have low scaling.

i can only see it being used as cheese in the situations where the damage number gets over 100, since that will rarely happen. The higher edge of concern are champions who can consistently get a shield and then basic attack an enemy before the shield is broken, eg, mordekaiser, taric, viktor, ryze,udyr,riven, and maybe rumble. but how many of these do you expect to take the resolve tree to begin with.

Special note that to trigger shield bash with a shield of the same source the shield needs to be broken or worn off first.

AnateraOct 25, 20181 votes

Because the balance team is made up of clueless idiots.

ThubanOct 25, 20181 votes

"Isn't the point of shields to reduce burst damage?"

I really don't understand what your problem here is. This is a damage buff when you have a shield on. It has nothing to do with receiving burst damage. You might have a relevant case if it were shields vs shields.

The only thing this rune will do is make tanks do more damage than they need, and make an excuse to nerf Janna again.