Everyone has been complaining about it being WAY too strong. So you nerfed the proc-damage lategame, how good.
But tell me, why the fuck did you increase the lethality? Is it completely impossible for the Balance team to NOT ''compensation buff'' something? Why can't you just straight up nerf it?
NekoniClaws92 votesThey're trying to make Ashe buy that thornmail aren't they?
Dingding1237 votesunderrated post
Velzard of Koz3 votesWell, they've been killing memes lately...
Novalas67 votesWe aimed to have Duskblade be a power neutral change rather than a nerf - In general, dying to upfront burst that's out of your control feels pretty bad and we've been looking to dial that back in recent patches. Getting killed by an Assassin who kills you using the Duskblade feels a lot worse than getting killed by an Assassin who hits you with all of his abilities. In this case, buffing the Lethality is a shift towards the latter; There should be more gameplay involved with the kill.
I'm not of the opinion that the item is/was overpowered, either. Youmuu's Ghostblade was trending towards being a close match in terms of 1st item pick on many AD assassins in higher MMRs.
AirKingNeo32 voteshow is an early game buff for a class who's only good early game a "power neutral change"?
My Waifu Vanilla50 votesBecause it isn't an early game buff? Outside of level 1 (which if Zed buys Duskblade level 1 a lot of weird shit had to happen) the proc straight up does less damage at all stages of the game. It isn't just 50 damage off of level 18. It's ~3 less damage per level growth so at level 9 (around when Zed buys it) it does about 24 less damage which is not outweighed by the 3 lethality which shreds a whopping like 1.5 armor at level 9.
Akali is SO HOT24 votesIt's not an early game buff wat
BestPudgeNA4 voteshow is an early game buff for a class who's only good early game a "power neutral change"?
The proc nerf starts effecting you at level 2. You don't get to complete Duskblade at level 1 so that number is irrelevant, by the time you actually finish Duskblade you're gonna be like level 7-9. Phreak's patch notes video has a table that contains how much damage you would need to do from 8-18 against Jhin with 0 armor to make up for the loss of the Duskblade proc. It was about 1150 premitigation at level 8 to put that in perspective Kha's against an isolated target at level 8 plus an auto attack and proc does about 1050. Keep in mind this is almost best case scenario, against higher armor targets the number is even higher for the break even point. Realistically speaking the only duskblade users that aren't actually nerfed by this change at all points in the game are the ones that get to auto attack a lot or have a massive AoE. So it's a nerf on EVER duskblade user at all points in the game except 
and ironically for the crying ADC mains 
Norglics3 voteshow is an early game buff for a class who's only good early game a "power neutral change"?
how is assassins only good early game? they get fed early cause they are super op but even if they are behind they will always be able to insta kill adc / not tank support
Envonyx11 votesYes! Let's down vote a rioter trying to communicate to us then ask why they never respond to posts!!!
Norglics28 votes[{quoted}](name=Sol Envoy ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QzLKosQc,comment-id=00220005,timestamp=2018-08-30T01:59:54.723+0000)
Yes! Let's down vote a rioter trying to communicate to us then ask why they never respond to posts!!!
but he is wrong , very very wrong , this is the problem , they are just way out of touch of this game
cocacolalips11 voteshe isn't? youmuu ghostblade is a better item overall, stats show it.
one of the main reasons is that duskblade gets countered super hard by armor, so it's often wasted in teamfights and against ninja tabi, zhonya hourglass, fighters, tanks etc.
his explanatation is 100% correct, it feels unfair to die to one auto attack that you can't avoid, much less so to die to abilities that you can avoid
Norglics17 voteshe isn't? youmuu ghostblade is a better item overall, stats show it.
one of the main reasons is that duskblade gets countered super hard by armor, so it's often wasted in teamfights and against ninja tabi, fighters, tanks etc.
his explanatation is 100% correct, it feels unfair to die to one auto attack than you can't avoid, much less so to die to abilities that you can avoid
then maybe nerf youmuu too?
LTK KoRo4 votesYeah, let's remove a class from a game, because player Norglics is unable to play against it.
Im unable to play against ADCs, but i don't want them to be removed from the game
Norglics13 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QzLKosQc,comment-id=002200050000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-30T09:45:06.732+0000)
Yeah, let's remove a class from a game, because player Norglics is unable to play against it.
Im unable to play against ADCs, but i don't want them to be removed from the game
looks like you have a serious problem not me , btw i only meet assassins after they got fed somewhere else than bot lane , and there is not much you can do then vs them btw assassins are op , they have alpha + mobility but no drawbacks
LTK KoRo3 votesAssassins drawbacks are lack of sustained damage and being a shitty teamfighter. Try to play Zed or Talon once, and kill someone in a 30-minute teamfight, im sure it'll go well. And if you seriously think that assassins late game is as strong as mages like Ori, or any ADCs, then you do have serious problem with understanding the game. There's a reason why outside of LB and Akali no assassins are played in pro play.
Norglics10 votes[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QzLKosQc,comment-id=00220005000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-30T10:05:24.022+0000)
Assassins drawbacks are lack of sustained damage and being a shitty teamfighter. Try to play Zed or Talon once, and kill someone in a 30-minute teamfight, im sure it'll go well. And if you seriously think that assassins late game is as strong as mages like Ori, or any ADCs, then you do have serious problem with understanding the game. There's a reason why outside of LB and Akali no assassins are played in pro play.
i dont play pro play , do you? i dont care what those pro players pick , i want to play a fun game , and for 99.99% of players assassins are op
My Waifu Vanilla5 votesAll stats disagree with you though.
rtbf2216514121 votescountered super hard by armor
Yeah, lethality isn't the new Armor pen. Okay.
So... What part of movement speed (Ghostblade) counters armor better again?
Cause I only see 55 damage and 17 lethality on ghostblade. VERSUS
55 damage. 21 lethality.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Youmuu%27s_Ghostblade
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Duskblade_of_Draktharr
cocacolalips1 votesI don't understand your comment
youmuu ghostblade unique active effect, the extra movement speed is always useful no matter what, duskblade of draktharr unique active effect, the extra damage is only useful against low armor enemies because it does physical damage and the more armor someone has, the lower the damage, it's usefulness is tied to the armor value of the person you are attacking, hence it's not always useful.
rtbf2216514121 votesI don't understand your comment
Of course you don't.
You see.
The more lethality, the more damage to tanks.
The less lethality, the less armor penetration (lethality) to tanks.
Duskblade of draktharr does more damage to tanks because of lethality buffs. Then add the passive which still does MORE than 55 damage anyway.
Movement speed doesn't add damage unless you are Hecarim. But that is when the active is up.
cocacolalips1 voteslethality is kind of useless against tanks because armor outscales lethality both in gold value and accessibility 1 to 1. 1 single chain vest worth 800 gold (or one full item worth ~3K gold) effectively nullifies 6K+ gold worth of lethality (since you can't stack lethality in isolation)
you want % armor penetration against tanks (or true damage), not flat armor penetration.
maybe I phrased it poorly, youmuu ghostblade gives you stats that get countered by armor (lethality) and an active effect that isn't countered by armor (the movement speed buff), thus youmuu ghostblade is always kind of useful no matter what. duskblade of draktharr on the other hand gives you stats that get countered by armor (lethality) and an active effect that also gets countered by armor (the active effect deals physical damage) making the item pretty much useless against enemies with a high armor value.
rtbf2216514122 voteslethality is kind of useless against tanks.
You can't have your cake while eating it too.
It was a nice discussion until you clearly went into denial.
Telling me this build won't shred because of it's gold value is ridiculous.
cocacolalips2 votesagain, flat armor penetration is inefficient against high armor targets, % armor penetration is good
if your goal is to kill tanks, you should change the build above to black cleaver, lord dominiks regards, and critical chance items, (infinity edge, statikk shiv) and maybe even a blade of the ruined king
rtbf2216514121 votesagain, flat armor penetration is inefficient against high armor targets, % armor penetration is good
if your goal is to kill tanks, you should change the build above to black cleaver, lord dominiks regards, and critical chance items, (infinity edge, statikk shiv) and maybe even a blade of the ruined king
From what I am reading:
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Acde6pI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-02-10T03:53:19.877+0000)
only true when you look at lethality in a vaccum.
lethality stacked with % penetration turns an armor stacking tank into a piece of paper.
also, lethality will always affect you the same. the % damage reduction in the armor tooltip is misleading. it compares how much effective health your last point of armor gave you compared to your effective health all your other armor gives you. of course that number is going to shrink the more armor you already have.
the way armor works is, that each single point increases your effective health pool by 1%.
this means when you have 1000 health, and 100 armor, you have effectively 2000 health against physical damage.
no matter your armor value, if the enemy has 20 flat armor pen, it will always reduce that bonus by 20%. means in the example there, it would reduce your pool by 200 effecive health.
if you have 300 armor and 1000 health, youd have 4000 effective health and 20 lethality would still reduce your effective health by 200.
Also, defensive stats when increased have diminishing returns. The first armor item was always better than the second and some of the stats are 'wasted'. The cost efficiency goes down because of the diminishing returns.
I'm reading this from Egillion (EUW).
cocacolalips3 votesman, that comment is such a mess, it's all over the place
I can't make it any clearer, if you are buying 10 mice for 20$ and I'm buying 10 mouse traps for 10$, you are wasting your money, it's the same with flat armor penetration and armor, 1 lethality = -1 armor and 1 armor = -1 lethality (simplified, it's even worse before level 18), you buy 10 armor penetration and i'm buying 10 armor for half the price, you are paying more to do less, duskblade is the worst AD item you can buy to deal damage to a tank, multiplicative damage sources such as % armor penetration, critical chance, true damage or max health damage are all a lot better damage sources than lethality that scales additively against armor at a loss.
Guzergus2 votesThe idea that the majority of the community can be 'in touch' with the game is just amusing. The community is on average unskilled and unwilling to play the game properly, choosing to complain about everything. This is definitely not what I would call being in touch. I'd prefer Novalas's opinion over the community any time.
Appreciate the attempt to communicate despite all the crazy board posters.
Fear the Kayn16 votesBecause right now assassins around balanced around that lethality. I’d personally like to see them just remove duskblade, BUT if they do that all (common) users of Duskblade would need compensation buffs. Your choice.
YuGiHo1 voteswhy, have she same stats dont they?
Deconstruction7 votesYoumuu's is useable and is situationally better than Duskblade, but only for roaming. Edge of night is a joke at this point, and its stats are different.
Thilmer15 votesThis ítem simply has to go.
-It wasn't neccesary at all from the start.
-It has had multiple versions… all of them balance nightmares.
-If you change it, you also have to change the 3-4 characters that are balanced around the goddam ítem.
Duskblade of Dakkar is basically Deathfire Grasp for AD champions, and should be removed from the game exactly for the same reasons that Deathfire Grasp was removed.
SweedishGunner13 votesDuskblade is such a stupid crutch item that all assassins rely on. The whole idea of an entire class depending on one item is stupid anyways, surely the point in different lethality items is that the best one for the situation is built first and this in turn allows natural item variety. Not just 'hur dur Duskblade first on every AD assassin.'
VG Crows12 votesI thought it should have been obvious to everyone at this point. Riot is biased AF towards AD assassins and doesn't want to completely gut them (they should). They simply get the "pat-pat to the head" treatment. Also Worlds. Also fuck balance team for that.
SpecterVonBaren22 votesJust like they were biased to ADC's before, and mages before that, and supports before that, and tanks before that... gee, it's almost like the boards are just making shit up to suit their bitching...
AmazoX8 votesAt least Lethality isn't flat Armor Penetration like Flat Magic Penetration.
Oleandervine39 votesIt's much more difficult to pull out flat Magic Penetration due to the cost of the items it's usually attached to, as well as the sheer lack of it in the game, and the fact that basic auto attacks can't utilize it. Flat Magic Pen is a lot more balanced and spread out than Lethality.
Ulquiorra01237 votesWhat would you rather have, a Kha'Zix who can 1 shot you with just a Q, or one that has to think with duskblade?
This item is needed to take power out of assassin kits early. Its a nice change because this is going to remove some of the damage between levels 3-12. Alongside the domination tree massacre and alot of burst oriented assassins are struggling. It is always amusing to me that the top champions in the game aren't assassins yet people are only complaining about assassins xD
Dolasaur4 votesWhat would you rather have, a Kha'Zix who can 1 shot you with just a Q, or one that has to think with duskblade?
This item is needed to take power out of assassin kits early. Its a nice change because this is going to remove some of the damage between levels 3-12. Alongside the domination tree massacre and alot of burst oriented assassins are struggling. It is always amusing to me that the top champions in the game aren't assassins yet people are only complaining about assassins xD
I think if the assassin has finished Duskblade at level 3, the assassin will probably still not be short on damage to kill you ;)
LTK KoRo3 votesBoards are complaining about assassins because most of boards main mages and they want to have free laning phase and late as strong as ADCs. It's silly how biased they are.
KmSneaky11 votesBecause characters like 
don't have relatively safe laning phases and decent late game while being able to combo and 100/0 you at level 3 with ignite huh, silly mage bias :(
LTK KoRo1 votesZed lategame is shit, and rest of these guys doesn't even use duskblade, or in Yasuo case, aren't assassins. Seriously, good luck in assassinating someone with Zed after 35 minutes. If your target is grouped, Zed will die nearly instantly after diving.
Mages always will be biased. Im sure most of you believe that Zed have stronger late game than Orianna
cmacd204 votesGive assassins the ADC Treatment: nerf base stats, resistances, and itemization, then give them "buffs" 4 patches later
Thefrostyviking32 votesPretty sure that most marksmen never got compensation buffs on the scale that assassins keep getting them, biggest one was stormrazor and that item benefits many of the marksmens worst counters as much as it does them.
wildfox993 votesbecause the assassins damage is fine,the problem is how easily and reliability they can proc it
so they nerfed the targeted damage but buffed the armor pen so you'll do the same damage only if you hit your abilities
edit : also it's 3 armor pen at lvl 18 vs 50 flat damage at lvl 18,it's definitely a nerf
LTK KoRo8 votesActually, reliability isn't a problem. After assassins rework came live, assassin winrates went to 45% values due to unreliability in their kits. That's why duskblade got added, to give assassins some reliability.
Problem is, assassins numbers got buffed after time, and now their unreliable damage creates a huge overkill. If Zed will hit you only with r e aa, im sure you'll survive in 95% of scenarios, no matter if you're squishy or no, just have full hp before his engage. But if Zed will hit you with triple shuriken, then well, he can kill tanks with it. I "managed" to die to Zed as a 200 armor Trundle, and that felt pretty bad
Krully3 votesA zed main i watch uses the ult as an escape tool since theres so much damage
EROTIC RAID BOSS3 voteszed mains have always done this
