Congratulations Riotgames, you just lost a Season 1 veteran

TrikzterzArma·Aug 23, 2018·123 votes·22,082 views

This stupid meta is the worst thing I've ever experienced. You agree that the damage is too high, and then puts buffs to already stupid champs on the PBE two patches in a row.

A couple of days ago I told myself to not support you by buying RP until you fixed all the problems. I really longed for Cosmic Lulu and High Noon Lucian and Thresh, but I just cant support you right now. I decided to continue playing the game though.

But now it's three days ago I played a game last time, and I dont feel ANY need whatsoever to even put myself in a queue. I know how it will end. I will get oneshot by everything, I will get frustrated and irritated, and after the game is over I won't join a new queue.

Fix the damn game Riot. You're a big game company, not a three people in a cellar. Fix the shit you've caused.

158 Comments

rawiazam1Aug 23, 201823 votes

they want to draw it to preseason which is likely 3 months from now for some reason

ModWulf HelhammerAug 23, 201814 votes

Because nearly everyone complained that the game was changing too much.

So they are focusing on stabilizing what here now rather than adding any new large changes that shake up the game even more.

Spank the FoxAug 23, 201840 votes

The game was changing too much with no clear direction tbh.

The ADC class rebalance was a failure in the sense ADCs are now just shoehorned into using Stormrazor or being complete shit, rather than Riot wanting to delay the time they come online (they never do unless you abuse the shit out of Stormrazor)

The fighter item rework was going to be messy.

Riot should address focussing on altering the macro state of the game - how people interact with objectives, first.

CrazFight Aug 25, 20181 votes

The changes they did implement, weren't changes I was asking for. Damage wasn't fixed, macro of the game wasn't fixed. It just all headed into the wrong direction.

Although, time of games was improved, so that was nice

DaBoooshAug 26, 20181 votes

Why should Riot listen to you specifically? You're not especially important. I'm not sure why you would think Riot would give you everything you asked for

The King DiamondAug 23, 20184 votes

{quoted}

they want to draw it to preseason which is likely 3 months from now for some reason

"It's just preseason guyz, it will be good"

slippykittenAug 23, 201822 votes

"You're a big game company, not a three people in a cellar. Fix the shit you've caused."

That is the problem. When they were "3 people" they had a passion for the game and a concern for the players. Now, they exist only to milk this game for the shareholders for as long as they can and move on.

HalcyonDwellerAug 23, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Now, they exist only to milk this game for the shareholders for as long as they can and move on.

Hey now, that's completely unfounded. Please do research and bring evidence before you start spouting conspiracy theories.

Edit: holy crap you guys, it IS a conspiracy theory. Real classy piling on the downvotes like that. Guess I have to edit the comment to prove my point, even though I already did prove it further down. It's like people don't read a conversation anymore they just respond to whatever catches their fancy.

This was debunked years ago. See here:

{quoted}

"On December 16, 2015, Riot Games sold its remaining equity to Tencent Holdings."

That remaining equity was like 7% of their shares. Tencent already owned the other 93%, and thus would have had "shareholder control" of the company already long before that point. We didn't see evidence of Tencent forcing Riot's hand before December 16, 2015 and we didn't see it afterwards either. Riot has made a lot of questionable choices about the game, but those choices are their own, not Tencent's.

And another user's reply to that, further clarifying the information:

{quoted}

Even before the 93% Tencent had the majority for a while. And even before they had the majority they already owned a decent amount of shares. Had to look up the exact dates on Wikipedia, but here's the relevant timeline:

So in reality Tencent could have forced Riot's hand way earlier, not even a full two years after the release of LoL.

Edit, in case one doesn't trust Wikipedia as a source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-02-04/tencent-said-to-be-near-deal-to-buy-riot-games-for-more-than-350-million

slippykittenAug 23, 201816 votes

They were started by a passionate and small new gaming company - Fact The game grew, the dev's were communicative and constantly trying to please the players - Fact The game was bought out by Tencent - Fact Since then, the focus has gone to e sports, new ways to generate income (loot boxes), and making the game more approachable to new players - observable fact

All but the conclusion is 100% founded and factual. The only variance in the conclusion is whether it is predetermined and intentional that the game is milked until it's demise, or if it will be an unintentional outcome of the above mentioned goals.

RaiyzaAug 23, 20185 votes

Uhhhhh.........................

HalcyonDwellerAug 23, 20187 votes

The benefit of typing on a forum is that you don't need filler words to fill the space while you think.

If you disagree with what I've said, then provide reasons, otherwise you're just wasting both our time.

RaiyzaAug 23, 20189 votes

Oh, how tempting.

You do know how a corporation works, right?

I'll try to make it short.

A corporation is run by the leadership as well as the board of directors. Every decision made within a corporation is decided by voting from the Board as well as the leaders and the shareholders. If a decision is not in the best interest of the shareholders, the corporation will vote against it. This is likely the case with Tencent and Riot.

They are currently making decisions that create the most profit. Which area of the company do you think makes the most money?

Ding! Ding! Diiiinnnggg!!!

The answer is esports. Cut to the chase: They are making decisions based on what makes the LCS better, and that is high damage, flashy plays, overloaded kits. If it makes money, shareholders approve.

AmazoXAug 23, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Oh, how tempting.

You do know how a corporation works, right?

I'll try to make it short.

A corporation is run by the leadership as well as the board of directors. Every decision made within a corporation is decided by voting from the Board as well as the leaders and the shareholders. If a decision is not in the best interest of the shareholders, the corporation will vote against it. This is likely the case with Tencent and Riot.

They are currently making decisions that create the most profit. Which area of the company do you think makes the most money?

Ding! Ding! Diiiinnnggg!!!

The answer is esports. Cut to the chase: They are making decisions based on what makes the LCS better, and that is high damage, flashy plays, overloaded kits. If it makes money, shareholders approve.

This sucks but its the TRUTH.

HalcyonDwellerAug 23, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Oh, how tempting.

You do know how a corporation works, right?

I'll try to make it short.

A corporation is run by the leadership as well as the board of directors. Every decision made within a corporation is decided by voting from the Board as well as the leaders and the shareholders. If a decision is not in the best interest of the shareholders, the corporation will vote against it. This is likely the case with Tencent and Riot.

They are currently making decisions that create the most profit. Which area of the company do you think makes the most money?

Ding! Ding! Diiiinnnggg!!!

The answer is esports. Cut to the chase: They are making decisions based on what makes the LCS better, and that is high damage, flashy plays, overloaded kits. If it makes money, shareholders approve.

Condescension isn't a good look for you. Try again without the bullshit, then I'll bother reading the whole thing.

RaiyzaAug 24, 20185 votes

I apologize. I didnt mean to come off that way.

Still, read it. Dont just brush it off.

HalcyonDwellerAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A corporation is run by the leadership as well as the board of directors. Every decision made within a corporation is decided by voting from the Board as well as the leaders and the shareholders. If a decision is not in the best interest of the shareholders, the corporation will vote against it. This is likely the case with Tencent and Riot.

I don't dispute that that's how a lot of corporations work, but we don't know that it's how Riot works. And we don't have proof that it is.

I genuinely believe that most of the time, balance or mechanic decisions Riot has made are in an effort to better the game. They may have fucked up, and/or it might have brought in more money, but that wouldn't mean they did it just to bring in more money.

You can't just cherry pick the one motive that's the easiest to get angry over. Profit is just one of many possible reasons for them to make changes.

They are currently making decisions that create the most profit. Which area of the company do you think makes the most money? The answer is esports. Cut to the chase: They are making decisions based on what makes the LCS better, and that is high damage, flashy plays, overloaded kits. If it makes money, shareholders approve.

This is possible, but not entirely true. They seem to balance for pro play for a couple of patches at the end of the season (in preparation for worlds), the rest of the year they seem to balance around Plat / Diamond primarily.

I have a few problems with this narrative.

It assumes the motives of developers and game designers, without actually knowing how those individuals feel or think about the issues they're being strawmanned over.
It makes accusations that are ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. If Riot is actually making changes just to make money, then they aren't going to care if people complain about it. And if they aren't? Then you've just pissed off the only people who might have listened to you, all because you accused them of doing something shady that they didn't do.
Accusing Riot of corruption is convenient, and it make them into a great punching bag, but it doesn't actually accomplish anything of value and it just makes the boards a more hostile place where Riot is less likely to look for feedback.

RaiyzaAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You can't just cherry pick the one motive that's the easiest to get angry over. Profit is just one of many possible reasons for them to make changes.

That is the reason. The more viewership of esports, the more money they get from advertisers. The more money they get, the happier the shareholders are. It's a direct correlation.

I will give credit where it is due. Riot does explore every possible angle to better the game, including player suggestions, but ultimately, they are a corporation, owned by a much bigger corporation.

HalcyonDwellerAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is the reason. The more viewership of esports, the more money they get from advertisers. The more money they get, the happier the shareholders are. It's a direct correlation.

You can't just cherry pick. There are a multitude of reasons for changes to be made. Until you eliminate those other reasons as impossible, it is wrong and misleading to claim that it is one reason in particular.

I will give credit where it is due. Riot does explore every possible angle to better the game, including player suggestions, but ultimately, they are a corporation, owned by a much bigger corporation.

You ignored a large part of what I said.

{quoted}

I have a few problems with this narrative.

It assumes the motives of developers and game designers, without actually knowing how those individuals feel or think about the issues they're being strawmanned over.

It makes accusations that are ineffective at best and counterproductive at worst. If Riot is actually making changes just to make money, then they aren't going to care if people complain about it. And if they aren't? Then you've just pissed off the only people who might have listened to you, all because you accused them of doing something shady that they didn't do.

Accusing Riot of corruption is convenient, and it make them into a great punching bag, but it doesn't actually accomplish anything of value and it just makes the boards a more hostile place where Riot is less likely to look for feedback.

RaiyzaAug 24, 20182 votes

No, I didn't ignore you. Your second point agrees with me. And how would it be counterproductive? So many players are suggesting to tone down the damage and stop giving champions a million tools in their kits. It just makes champions less unique. That's not counterproductive, we are actively suggesting ways to better the game.

I have gone through other reasons.

Because Riot believes the damage should be this high? Maybe. Even so, that just means they are ignoring the players.
Players demanded it? Hell no.
Because GC and Meddler were trying to make LoL compete with another game?

What other reasons could there be? Other than eports?

HalcyonDwellerAug 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, I didn't ignore you. Your second point agrees with me. And how would it be counterproductive? So many players are suggesting to tone down the damage and stop giving champions a million tools in their kits. It just makes champions less unique. That's not counterproductive, we are actively suggesting ways to better the game.

You misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying it is counterproductive to attack Rioters and call them greedy and accuse them of milking the game for money. Such claims have nothing to do with game balance and do nothing to further any sort of discussion about improving the game. Such accusations are simply convenient ways to take frustration out on Rioters and use them as verbal punching bags.

I have gone through other reasons.

Because Riot believes the damage should be this high? Maybe. Even so, that just means they are ignoring the players.

Players demanded it? Hell no.

Because GC and Meddler were trying to make LoL compete with another game?

What other reasons could there be? Other than eports?

Are you legitimately trying to understand other reasons or are you just going through the motions of 'trying' to understand, so that you can dismiss my dissidence as soon as it's convenient to do so?

Here are some examples:

Games being made shorter could be a result of the worldwide playerbase wanting shorter games.
Damage changes were mixed up with the rune update and it's more a matter of how they took resistances away from everybody by eliminating the old runes which people often took to get an extra 10 or so resistances. This is a case of them making a mistake, not intentionally making the game snowbally so that they could milk it harder.
Players did demand it. They complained about the tank meta way back when, and then around the time that all these changes were made the playerbase was complaining about enchanters making it so the damage we dealt to marksmen mean nothing. Players demanded for their damage to be more effective, in a sense.

RaiyzaSep 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You misunderstood what I was saying. I'm saying it is counterproductive to attack Rioters and call them greedy and accuse them of milking the game for money. Such claims have nothing to do with game balance and do nothing to further any sort of discussion about improving the game. Such accusations are simply convenient ways to take frustration out on Rioters and use them as verbal punching bags.

Are you legitimately trying to understand other reasons or are you just going through the motions of 'trying' to understand, so that you can dismiss my dissidence as soon as it's convenient to do so?

Here are some examples:

Games being made shorter could be a result of the worldwide playerbase wanting shorter games.

Damage changes were mixed up with the rune update and it's more a matter of how they took resistances away from everybody by eliminating the old runes which people often took to get an extra 10 or so resistances. This is a case of them making a mistake, not intentionally making the game snowbally so that they could milk it harder.

Players did demand it. They complained about the tank meta way back when, and then around the time that all these changes were made the playerbase was complaining about enchanters making it so the damage we dealt to marksmen mean nothing. Players demanded for their damage to be more effective, in a sense.

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Things got a little crazy for me lately. I actually forgot about this for a while.

Anyway.

I'm not just accusing Riot with no reasoning. Now I'm not going to go through all the math and shit. I dont have the time for all of that. However, it is without a doubt that the recent seasons have been a spiral increase of damage and a decrease in defensive capabilities. Thats all.

Also, there is a huge difference in "milking" and picking what the most profitable choice. The difference between the two depends on the long term goals vs the short term goals.

LCS viewership is dropping. That is a fact. Why? Because its becoming less strategy and more "who can burst faster?" If Riot's intentions are to make the LCS more exciting, then they are doing a terrible job at it.

Players demanded the tank meta to go away, yes. But this high damage meta has been lingering for too long. Much longer than say the cinderhulk meta. Runes reforged made it worse.

We will see what happens next preseason. But if damage remains this high, then itll be absolutely clear that Riot wants shorter games.

HalcyonDwellerSep 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Things got a little crazy for me lately. I actually forgot about this for a while.

No sweat, we both have lives.

I'm not just accusing Riot with no reasoning. Now I'm not going to go through all the math and shit. I dont have the time for all of that. However, it is without a doubt that the recent seasons have been a spiral increase of damage and a decrease in defensive capabilities. Thats all.

"I'm saying it is counterproductive to attack Rioters and call them greedy and accuse them of milking the game for money."

It doesn't matter if there is reasoning to your accusations, the problem is that they drive Rioters away from player feedback by making them think that we all think they're just greedy bastards. This is counterproductive.

Also, there is a huge difference in "milking" and picking what the most profitable choice. The difference between the two depends on the long term goals vs the short term goals.

Point is, the accusations are that of greed. The accusations are that they are thinking with their wallets instead of with their player-oriented beliefs. "milking" encompases that tone nicely, you might not call it "milking" but your accusations carry the same tone and weight that accusations of "milking" would carry.

LCS viewership is dropping. That is a fact. Why? Because its becoming less strategy and more "who can burst faster?" If Riot's intentions are to make the LCS more exciting, then they are doing a terrible job at it.

LCS is suffering, and damage meta is uninteresting. I can agree completely with this.

Players demanded the tank meta to go away, yes. But this high damage meta has been lingering for too long. Much longer than say the cinderhulk meta. Runes reforged made it worse.

My point there was that the players demanded tankiness to be brought in line. Riot delivered, albeit poorly and overshooting the goal by mistakenly making a variety of changes that all compounded to give us the damage problems we have now, but they weren't just doing it for profit. They did it because the players demanded it.

We will see what happens next preseason. But if damage remains this high, then itll be absolutely clear that Riot wants shorter games.

It's possible to want shorter games for reasons besides profits. It's possible for damage to be high for reasons other than wanting games to be shorter.

LakegaAug 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Oh, how tempting.

You do know how a corporation works, right?

I'll try to make it short.

A corporation is run by the leadership as well as the board of directors. Every decision made within a corporation is decided by voting from the Board as well as the leaders and the shareholders. If a decision is not in the best interest of the shareholders, the corporation will vote against it. This is likely the case with Tencent and Riot.

They are currently making decisions that create the most profit. Which area of the company do you think makes the most money?

Ding! Ding! Diiiinnnggg!!!

The answer is esports. Cut to the chase: They are making decisions based on what makes the LCS better, and that is high damage, flashy plays, overloaded kits. If it makes money, shareholders approve.

Which goes to show why the whole corporations, and stuff doesn't work. Gaming isn't the only example of how it doesn't work... EA, Bioware, Riot, etc. all making those board of directors decisions by a bunch of half witted dumb fucks who have no idea what gaming is, or what its about. Too loaded up on their own ego's and self importance to realize that they are killing the game making them money. Of course they don't care though right? THey'lll buy into another company and destory that one too, running it into the ground like they did with EA, Bioware, and countless other game companies that no longer exist who were amazing developers.

The whole corporate scene is nothing more than a parasitic sickness that should be eradicated the world over. It does nothing but destroy, while lining the pockets of the few with stolen money.

InfinitexMortalAug 23, 20181 votes

Its not a conspiracy. The original creators sold the game a few years ago to some Chinese company. Ever since then the game has been spiraling down and focusing more and more on making money instead of making an enjoyable game.

HalcyonDwellerAug 23, 20182 votes

That is precisely the conspiracy. This was debunked months ago. See here:

{quoted}

"On December 16, 2015, Riot Games sold its remaining equity to Tencent Holdings."

That remaining equity was like 7% of their shares. Tencent already owned the other 93%, and thus would have had "shareholder control" of the company already long before that point. We didn't see evidence of Tencent forcing Riot's hand before December 16, 2015 and we didn't see it afterwards either. Riot has made a lot of questionable choices about the game, but those choices are their own, not Tencent's.

And another user's reply to that, further clarifying the information:

{quoted}

Even before the 93% Tencent had the majority for a while. And even before they had the majority they already owned a decent amount of shares. Had to look up the exact dates on Wikipedia, but here's the relevant timeline:

So in reality Tencent could have forced Riot's hand way earlier, not even a full two years after the release of LoL.

Edit, in case one doesn't trust Wikipedia as a source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-02-04/tencent-said-to-be-near-deal-to-buy-riot-games-for-more-than-350-million

RaiyzaAug 24, 20181 votes

I don't beleive that one bit.

Even if it wasnt tencent's control, Riot is still making changes to better the LCS, which is not smart.

HalcyonDwellerAug 24, 20182 votes

Believe it or don't. The truth of the matter is that Tencent had majority share ownership since 2011. If they directed Riot's choices we would have seen proof of it way before the game got scrambled.

Every year they make changes for LCS, for a few patches leading up to it. The rest of the year they balance around mostly diamond and other nearby ranks.

Vlada CutAug 23, 201818 votes

Congratulations! You made enough room for new generation to replace you!

TrikzterzArmaAug 23, 201860 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJJ2Mw39,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-23T15:12:39.774+0000)

Congratulations! You made enough room for new generation to replace you!

Yeah. They're getting so many new players that they have to make commercials about the game

DaBoooshAug 23, 201814 votes

Is that a fact or your interpretation?

Moons of JupiterAug 23, 201837 votes

{quoted}

Is that a fact or your interpretation?

They're getting so many new players that the pro play view rates are spiraling downward. Wow so many new players.

DaBoooshAug 23, 20188 votes

I'm not sure if fewer people watching professional play means that there are actually less players... It might be though All games reach a peak and then slowly fade out. I don't know why league of legends is special

TheSingularityAug 23, 201819 votes

Most games reach a peak because they stop evolving or piss off their playerbase.

Starcraft 2 was both of those. League is the second one.

Their changes don't evolve the game, it's change for the sake of change.

Beach GuyAug 24, 20183 votes

I normally don't post in NA forums because I like to use my main account on everything but LAN server can't post here, so here I am. I totally agree with you. Riot changes for th sake of change and that sucks, a lot. The worst part is that they stubbornly refuse to revert their mistakes, thinking that constant change keeps the game alive, but it doesn't. Like Doublelift said, Dota 2 and Super Smash Bros Melee have been the same since release and they have a stable community and have proplay. Riot also refuses to bring back what the majority likes, like the circlejerk I hear about Season 4 being the best season and there was no damage and mobility creep like today, but still they keep doing whatever the fuck they want. Riot really should reach a point where they try to make every champion viable and try to make them all aim for a 49%-51% WR. But releasing 1000 champions per season just complicates balance more. What is riot aiming for? What is their objective? Are they no longer the "most player-centered company" like they used to say? They are just wandering aimlessly rule-bending the game every season.

It would be so nice if they took the Old School Runescape approach on updates using polls. And not a 50%+1 approach because let's be honest that would suck. But a 75% of "Yes" votes for the update to pass (eg 1,000,000 players voted on the poll, if 750,000+ agreed the update passes). I browse the r/2007scape almost daily, I may not post because I don't play but I read the posts. Not a single rant-post. But instead they put people that will never get to play as many games as the playerbase to do whatever they want with the game.

RecessHeroAug 24, 20182 votes

Here's a good ol' fashioned logical fallacy.

Quiet DudeAug 23, 20187 votes

We cant miss you if you dont actually leave

PICKLE RICK REEEAug 23, 20189 votes

and unbanning perm-banned players 😂

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 23, 20187 votes

So many players they are unbanning perma banned players lmao

LaserDeathBladeAug 24, 20187 votes

This is the worst season of league I've ever played through

I play more Blitz than Ranked because it honestly feels more balanced. At least dying instantly makes sense there.

VerxintAug 24, 20182 votes

Blitz unironically has more comeback potential than rift..

smallercack17Aug 23, 20186 votes

if Yorick gets a nerf, I will afk

Fast EnoughAug 23, 20185 votes

Lol They only care about you if you flame and then you get punished Btw anyone remember when they gave free skins to players and when they gave riot Kayle for free? That was the dream

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 23, 201815 votes

you get a free skin for honor 5, you get free chests that at some point do give you free skins. It's not like riot turns 10 every year ma guy.

Fast EnoughAug 23, 20186 votes

Dude took me 7months to get to honor lvl 2 from 0 and after I got it one day later I get banned.... So i think it is impossible to get to honor lvl 5 Also in the past they gave free skins bcs of their anniversary and now we are lucky if we get an icon

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 23, 201817 votes

I'm fairly sure honor 5 is perfectly possible if you don't get banned and sent to 0 every time.

Bob the ToastrAug 24, 20182 votes

Agreed, I've been honor 5 for over a month. All it takes is not being toxic lol

BILLAYAug 24, 20185 votes

you held out for this fucking long you deserve a medal dude [sg-ahri-2]

NocaNohaAug 23, 20181 votes

Play nexus blitz, it's short.. you can go with whatever.. and try to have fun because it will anyways end up shorter than ARAM than can end up being unfair in most of the cases.. or SR.. where you die in one-shot xd

TrikzterzArmaAug 23, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Play nexus blitz, it's short.. you can go with whatever.. and try to have fun because it will anyways end up shorter than ARAM than can end up being unfair in most of the cases.. or SR.. where you die in one-shot xd

Nexus Blitz is way too unfair. Very fair when its Battle Royal and the circle is around the enemys turret

NocaNohaAug 23, 20184 votes