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@Riot: I hope you aren't trying to use Heal/Shield passives to just bypass ap ratios

chipndip1··7 votes·882 views

Like, you guys do realize that there's hardly any options on that front, right? At least, there's hardly any on a support budget that fits the support mindset.

Why is this a problem? Well, it skews the power balance in the game in a way that's hard to shake. Putting it simply, some supports pack things that are extremely powerful out of the gate, usually hard cc. What's supposed to offset this is that the supportive buffs that are tied to ap ratios from other supports are supposed to be stronger later because you should have items to boost their potency. Janna's shield should get bigger and provide more ad as a game goes on. Lulu should provide more attack speed and slow strength. So on and so forth with this line of thinking, right? Well, we have no ap items to build on these champions that's of any real value besides Ardent Censor, seeing how Watchers > FQC, Zeke's is generally bad again since it's so windowed it can be wasted clearing a minion wave, Banner doesn't have ap anymore, and Athene's...no one builds the damage or has the right play pattern to use this thing right, save Sona. So now, with this said, the strongest supports to master are the ones that are strongest off of base values. In other words, the ones that don't need to scale utility more than they need to simply land it. Who are these champs?

Nami: Utility of her Q and R are knock-ups and suspensions, respectively. Nothing that needs to scale.

Bard : Q, R, and E don't need scaling to be useful.

Braum : Blocking spells with Unbreakable is static utility. Same for his ult's knock up. Same for his passive as well as landing Q to make landing his passive easier.

Alistar : Standard cow combo doesn't need scaling to be a cow combo.

Karma : Karma's movement speed buff off her R+E, surprisingly, doesn't need ap to scale. Combined with her range and that's basically her main selling point after laning.

Basically, all the supports spammed at World's until Zyra showed up with her insane lane bullying, which is a different topic so please don't bring that up.

The problem we're seeing is that when you put all the chips on heal/shield power, you're putting all of these other mage supports in a position of spamming one button to be useful. That isn't really a smart way to go about this. Now, it's indeed good to have that niche on some items, but to use it as the final solution rather than a part of it is a problem. There needs to be either more or better options that give some degree of ap so that we can scale the rest of our kits, not just the E or W button. As of right now, the best supports are the ones that are strongest right out the gate because the supports that are meant to be stronger later aren't all that much stronger later. And no, building a freaking Deathcap or a Luden's Echo isn't going to change the issue. They're supports, not mid laners.

Like, despite Riot making more and more heal/shield options, the strongest supports don't really care about healing/shielding outside of Nami. It's not just that one button that's the issue. It's everything else. Give us items so we can use all our other buttons rather than just being makeshift Jannas.

26 Comments

Done252 votes

Please Riot? Give AP supports REAL AP items. I don't want to see 2k items that offer 40 AP. Give me a juicy 3k with 100 AP and a really strong effect. It doesn't matter how cheap an item is if it's junk. Especially for 40 min+ games where you're sitting around with a maxed out build and no real power to show for it.

BIackfox1 votes

{quoted}

Please Riot? Give AP supports REAL AP items. I don't want to see 2k items that offer 40 AP. Give me a juicy 3k with 100 AP and a really strong effect. It doesn't matter how cheap an item is if it's junk. Especially for 40 min+ games where you're sitting around with a maxed out build and no real power to show for it.

No, I don't want soraka nerfed again.

Done251 votes

Soraka got nerfed because Riot pretty much removed Grevious Wounds. Wounds are now back and stronger than ever on ADCs AND Soraka got her face kicked in with nerfs. TBH they probably need to buff her. I always roflstomp any enemy teams unlucky enough to have her as their support...

chipndip12 votes

Uh...no, this is not what I'm saying in this thread in the slightest.

The problem is that all the ap options are already expensive as hell (to boot they have no supportive properties, save possibly Rylai's). The point is to have support budget items that give some ap. I mean, 60 x 4 = 240 ap. That's a good amount of ap for a support. Any support with ap x 100 benefits would get them a few times, even. We just need more options in that 40 - 60 range than we have now with useful effects.

Done252 votes

But imagine an Ardent Censor that gave 100 AP, +15~20% to healing/Shields, and a STRONGER +attack speed/on hit from heals/shields passive. What else are you going to spend your money on anyways?

Mobility/Ionian boots - 0.9k Ruby Sight Stone - 1.6k Frost Queen - 2.2k Ardent - 2.3k Mikaels - 2.1k (lol jk, Mikaels sucks now with no heal.) Redemption - 2.1k TOTAL = 11.2k

In comparison Berserkers Greaves - 1.1k Infinity Edge - 3.6k Phantom Dancer - 2.55k Runaan's Hurricane - 2.6k Essence Reaver - 3.6k Blood Thirster - 3.7k TOTAL = 17.15

An AD's full build is worth 50% more.

chipndip11 votes

  1. Crucible gives 20% heal/shield power. You get it on someone that already has a heal/shield.

  2. Supports are the last to full build even with the cheaper items because they rarely cs. Last thing we need is more expensive items. I'm calling for there to be more support items with ap on them at all, not significantly stronger ones. Otherwise they're going to be hella expensive and never bought because of that. Censor is already a good item, anyway.

Done251 votes

  1. Crucible is garbage now. +35 magic resistance, +20% healing, +10% CDR, and a much weaker active/passive. It's extremely gold inefficient.

  2. It doesn't matter how many items you have, it matters how GOOD they are. Imagine if, instead of buffing Censor, they gave it an upgrade path like they did with Hexdrinker -> Maw. Imagine if you could combine Censor with a NLR to put it at 100 AP, +20% healing bonus, and +30 on hit. I'd rather have one item that's twice as good instead of two weaker items that are only half as nice. Supports are pretty inventory tight as it is between Sight Stone and control wards.

I don't know how you play, but I always find myself hitting full build at 40 min on my supports, even if I'm using Face of the Mountain. (Which no one lets you use past 20 min lol.)

chipndip12 votes

  1. I guarantee you that you shouldn't be full build as a support before anyone else on your team unless you did an outstanding job that game.

  2. We don't need freaking 100 ap on support items. You're not an actual mid laner. You're a support. Part of the gold value of support items is their effects, and Censor's effects combined with its stats makes it a very useful item already, especially since its value synergizes with that of marksmen, which supports tend to tether themselves to. We don't need 100 ap more than we need useful effects tied to some ap at all.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

  1. We don't need freaking 100 ap on support items. You're not an actual mid laner. You're a support. Part of the gold value of support items is their effects, and Censor's effects combined with its stats makes it a very useful item already, especially since its value synergizes with that of marksmen, which supports tend to tether themselves to. We don't need 100 ap more than we need useful effects tied to some ap at all.

"The point is that a lot of utility on these supports is tied to ap." You yourself just said this. Let's take Janna for example. +Healing/Shields does: Nothing for her Q, nothing for her W, does not boost AD for her E.

It only affects the healing and shielding portion of her E and R. Don't you think that makes for a lopsided kit? What's wrong with supports scaling into late game? So what if a mid laner buys a Censor, it's not like they're suffering from a lack of AP heavy items.

Hell, if you want to worry about utility on mid laners just look at Rylai's. Why worry about Censor when that monstrosity exists?

Also, if you make supports more about the items they buy than the champions that they are, you erode the reason to pick them. What does it matter who you choose if they all play the exact same at the end because all their power is tied to item actives/passives.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

"The point is that a lot of utility on these supports is tied to ap." You yourself just said this. Let's take Janna for example. +Healing/Shields does: Nothing for her Q, nothing for her W, does not boost AD for her E.

You're missing the point though. You don't just need a shit ton of ap. You need some ap and supportive effects. You're basically doing the same as everyone else that tells me to just build mid laner items when you suggest a 3k gold item for supports. This. Is. Wrong. We need more options that offer ap for different scenarios, not extremely expensive ones that take too long to build. This was the issue with the old Banner of Command.

It only affects the healing and shielding portion of her E and R. Don't you think that makes for a lopsided kit? What's wrong with supports scaling into late game? So what if a mid laner buys a Censor, it's not like they're suffering from a lack of AP heavy items.

The point is that it's a support item. You don't want items with 100 ap, mana regen, AND supportive effects or else you get a ton of random dudes like Orianna and Lux mid building it. Instead, you just introduce more support budget items so that supports have more options. You can still get by scaling your stuff up with a good 200-ish ap. It's not like tank supports have 180 in both defenses and 1.5k bonus health, either.

Hell, if you want to worry about utility on mid laners just look at Rylai's. Why worry about Censor when that monstrosity exists?

Honestly I'd heavy-handed nerf that and make it a support item if it was me. Then make a new NLR item.

Also, if you make supports more about the items they buy than the champions that they are, you erode the reason to pick them. What does it matter who you choose if they all play the exact same at the end because all their power is tied to item actives/passives.

Once again, that's half the point of the thread, but you're overdoing it. Tank support items don't have THAT many tank stats, and likewise, ap support items shouldn't have THAT much ap. It still makes perfect sense. You're still a support at the end of the day. I'm asking for options, not a mountain of ap.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

You're missing the point though. You don't just need a shit ton of ap. You need some ap and supportive effects. You're basically doing the same as everyone else that tells me to just build mid laner items when you suggest a 3k gold item for supports. This. Is. Wrong. We need more options that offer ap for different scenarios, not extremely expensive ones that take too long to build. This was the issue with the old Banner of Command.

The problem with Banner of command is that it sucked. In fact, it STILL sucks. It will never ever be better than Portal because the active is garbage. The effect is weak and you need a minion to use it on. Just about the only time it's handy is when using on a Baron boosted cannon minion. Find a better example.

The point is that it's a support item. You don't want items with 100 ap, mana regen, AND supportive effects or else you get a ton of random dudes like Orianna and Lux mid building it. Instead, you just introduce more support budget items so that supports have more options. You can still get by scaling your stuff up with a good 200-ish ap. It's not like tank supports have 180 in both defenses and 1.5k bonus health, either.

Uhhhh, Orianna and Lux are both support mages. Lots of CC with powerful shields. Find better examples.

Honestly I'd heavy-handed nerf that and make it a support item if it was me. Then make a new NLR item.

You can't make it a support item because most supports will already have CC on the majority of their spells. Ex. Lulu, Karma, Zillian.

Once again, that's half the point of the thread, but you're overdoing it. Tank support items don't have THAT many tank stats, and likewise, ap support items shouldn't have THAT much ap. It still makes perfect sense. You're still a support at the end of the day. I'm asking for options, not a mountain of ap.

Oh trust me, I rarely ever but tank support items. They usually have trash stats that amount to nothing. Example: Redemption. A Giant's Belt will provide almost as much HP at half the cost.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

The problem with Banner of command is that it sucked. In fact, it STILL sucks. It will never ever be better than Portal because the active is garbage. The effect is weak and you need a minion to use it on. Just about the only time it's handy is when using on a Baron boosted cannon minion. Find a better example.

Banner is perfectly fine. You put it on a cannon and that can pretty much take a turret alone if you leave it for a minute. It also gives a good deal of extra time and damage when sieging. Don't just toss around the phrase "find a better example" for no reason.

Uhhhh, Orianna and Lux are both support mages. Lots of CC with powerful shields. Find better examples.

Point is that they build mid laner items. Why would you give burst mages that go mid the ap of a mid laner item and the supportive effects of support items?

Side note: Lux and Ori aren't support mages. They're freaking burst mages.

You can't make it a support item because most supports will already have CC on the majority of their spells. Ex. Lulu, Karma, Zillian.

Fine enough.

Oh trust me, I rarely ever but tank support items. They usually have trash stats that amount to nothing. Example: Redemption. A Giant's Belt will provide almost as much HP at half the cost.

They're meant for tank sups...who aren't supposed to be as tanky as real tanks.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Banner is perfectly fine. You put it on a cannon and that can pretty much take a turret alone if you leave it for a minute. It also gives a good deal of extra time and damage when sieging. Don't just toss around the phrase "find a better example" for no reason.

A minion wave can take take a tower if left alone for a whole minute. Portal can take a tower if left alone for a whole minute and doesn't need a cannon minion to do it.

Point is that they build mid laner items. Why would you give burst mages that go mid the ap of a mid laner item and the supportive effects of support items?

Side note: Lux and Ori aren't support mages. They're freaking burst mages.

Lux, Morgana, Orianna, and Karma all have kits with both plentiful CC and shields. Don't you DARE try to tell me they have burst on par with the likes of Brand and Syndra. They're not burst mages, they're supports with damage. This is a thing that exists. They can't deal 1080+120% AP like Syndra can by just hitting R with three spheres out.

They're meant for tank sups...who aren't supposed to be as tanky as real tanks.

Now you're trying to tell me that Leona, Braum, and Taric (All support tanks) can't be as tanky as Amumu?

I think you've somehow confused "Support" with "useless deadweight". Just because a person does damage doesn't mean they can't be a support as well. A 300 armor Taric tanks towers just as well as a 300 armor Amumu. Hell, he does it better with his shield and heals.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

A minion wave can take take a tower if left alone for a whole minuet. Portal can take a tower if left alone for a whole minuet and doesn't need a cannon minion to do it.

Yeah, but unlike a ZZ, you can set up a cannon from your base and have it just hard shove a wave straight to a turret. ZZ has to be relatively close to the scene, so it's not that complicated to find the portal and remove it once it's noticed. Banner minions are tougher to deal with when used properly, especially since you specifically have to send an ad champ to remove it. This can set up 4v5 team fights in your favor rather well.

Lux, Morgana, Orianna, and Karma all have kits with both plentiful CC and shields. Don't you DARE try to tell me they have burst on par with the likes of Brand and Syndra. They're not burst mages, they're supports with damage. This is a thing that exists. They can't hit for 1080+120% AP like Syndra can by just hitting R with three spheres out.

Alright, so instead of both of us just randomly saying shit, I'm gonna reel this back to reality.

Lux is a burst mage, secondarily an artillery mage.

Orianna is a disruptor.

Morgana is a disruptor, secondarily an enchanter.

Karma is an enchanter, secondarily a battle mage.

Only one of these four champions is in the champion class that's primarily relegated for support champs, and that's Karma. Let's stop talking nonsense like "Lux isn't a burst mage".

Now you're trying to tell me that Leona, Braum, and Taric (All support tanks) can't be as tanky as Amumu?

They can be if they build significantly more expensive laner-intended tank items instead of the ones that fit their budgets. Hell, this is why these champs have defensive buffs and damage mitigation in their kits...because they ain't making money to pad their defenses with anyway.

I think you've somehow confused "Support" with "useless deadweight". Just because a person does damage doesn't mean they can't be a support as well. A 300 armor Taric tanks towers just as well as a 300 armor Amumu. Hell, he does it better with his shield and heals.

You're entirely missing the point of this thread...

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Uh...no, this is not what I'm saying in this thread in the slightest.

The problem is that all the ap options are already expensive as hell (to boot they have no supportive properties, save possibly Rylai's). The point is to have support budget items that give some ap. I mean, 60 x 4 = 240 ap. That's a good amount of ap for a support. Any support with ap x 100 benefits would get them a few times, even. We just need more options in that 40 - 60 range than we have now with useful effects.

The problem with that is, if you keep pushing that number, those items start looking very attractive on midlaners. (Remember when FQC was bonkers?) It would be extremely difficult to make a good AP item for a supports budget, that isn't also attractive to mages, and when Riot balances that, they will likely have to gut the AP or the Utility, or increase the cost and promote it towards one class or the other.

Theirs also a problem with Supports who have that duality, (Karma, Lulu, most other mages), who balance are preseved only by the difference in power between Mid and Support. And as a support main, I'm not even sure why you need to focus that much into AP, considering the increase to healing and shielding, (That was their to reduce their dependence on AP.) And if your playing a damage focused Support, you need to trade away that utility for the extra damage, and penetration items offer a fine source of Budget damage.

chipndip11 votes

  1. I'm not trying to "keep pushing numbers". They're the same numbers we've been having, which is 40 - 60 ap per item. It's nothing we haven't seen yet.

  2. FQC was bonkers for having 150% mana regen and an insanely op active that was so strong Blitz players would use FQC. They never nerfed its damage even once.

  3. Simple way to make a good support item that isn't strong on mid laners? Let's look at Abyssal for a sec.

Currently: Makes enemies in range take 10% more magic damage.

What it could be: For any enemy you tag with a spell, ally spells that hit this enemy deal (X + Y% ally ap) bonus magic damage for Z seconds.

Still offers only 60 ap and 10% cdr, but it enables allies to deal more damage to those you hit with your initial spells even if you don't deal much damage yourself. It doesn't require you to hug enemies to make it work, and it isn't some aura that's always on so there's counterplay to it based on your ability to dodge incoming spells. Also, in a manner that's similar to Ardent, it synergizes with all allies to some degree, but moreso mages since they'll be building ap and relying on spells more. Perfectly fine concept.

  1. This thread didn't even state the word "damage" once outside of talking about how no one builds the damage to work with Athene's outside of Sona. The point is that a lot of utility on these supports is tied to ap. You can't just ignore that aspect, otherwise we'll just see more Nami spam.
PPPPPPPPPPPP2701 votes

{quoted}

Uh...no, this is not what I'm saying in this thread in the slightest.

The problem is that all the ap options are already expensive as hell (to boot they have no supportive properties, save possibly Rylai's). The point is to have support budget items that give some ap. I mean, 60 x 4 = 240 ap. That's a good amount of ap for a support. Any support with ap x 100 benefits would get them a few times, even. We just need more options in that 40 - 60 range than we have now with useful effects.

At least you are being reasonable as giving supports even more money might warp the role into things that most peopel did not expect. I still think if we are going to introduce more support itemization. We need some counterbuilding options for shields as they are becoming ubiquitous and lack of real effective counterplay for it.

chipndip11 votes

Honestly, 2 things:

  1. I've always been around this ballpark, but I get drowned out by morons and my threads gain little traction in most scenarios.

  2. I think a new effect to have for a few champs could be moves that bypass or do extra damage to shields. Or moves that have bonus effects against those with a shield on. Maybe an item that steals a bit of someone's shield and gives it to you in some way? That's kind of a different topic but that's the type of stuff I thought could come from that line of thinking.

MisterShameless1 votes

This is something Karma mains have been complaining about. Karma isn't an enchanter, artillery mage as she should be. Instead they turned her into a one trick (button) pony. What is your only use in a support role? R+E, thats it, sure you can R+Q in lane, but that R+Q combo does nothing after 7-8 minutes if you aren't ahead because you can't/won't be building AP. Over at mid, all she will ever do is R+Q because R+W doesn't have that damage boost anymore and R+E doesn't even have damage! So why use anything else, but R+Q, with rare exception of R+E. Now lets head over to the top lane, all she ever uses is R+W, nothing else because R+W offers her, her only form of solid sustain. She can't use R+Q because she will rarely build damage (again, only if she is ahead by like 3 kills), but R+E is more common in top than bot because it helps make you're team tanky while you cc a key player on the enemy team. . Surprisingly enough, I think the jungle role is what makes her play more like she should be. You have way more opinions in the jungle than you would in lane, you can build tank, hybrid, and damage, and almost the same goes for the skills you pick. You Can go max W to help secure kills better, E to help counter gank better, Q to secure and cc the enemy. Honestly. Jungle seems way more ideal for Karma at this point than any other lane. . It seems as though they took that idea of Jungle Karma and turned it into Ivern because thats what Ivern is, a better idea of Karma Jungle. Damaging shield, more reliable snare, and better utility with a pet on top of it. . One day Karma will get the attention she needs to be turned into a proper Ultilty/ Support Mage who fits the Enchanter/Artillery/Battle Mage with a completed model, animations, voice overs, and interactions like she was meant to be from the start.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I hope they are, I want cheaper supp items, most definitely give up AP for heal+shield power in the future for utility supports. Tank supports been had their itemization while damage supports have mid laner itemization. Utillity supports get higher cost items cause crap AP tied to it. So down AP give moar heal shield!

Also what's so important about it not helping, "the strong supports" if it's not even meant for them?

chipndip11 votes

  1. You're ignoring your entire kit, save one button, for the sake of that one button. You're gimping yourself because you aren't that strong early, but you don't become strong later outside of that aspect of your champ.

  2. I didn't know Athene's and Ardent cost that much to build. Oh wait, they cost like 2.1k and 2.3k. Even Abyssal has like 2.75k, which is comparable to Frozen Heart, which is 2.7k. There's no reason why having ap has to jack up the price of an item THAT much.

  3. The point of mentioning those supports was to emphasize the issue that supports that bring strength to the early laning phase can just ride out that advantage for the entire game. The ones that are supposed to show presence later don't really put in enough work to justify picking them over the ones that have a good deal of static, non-scaling benefits. If that's what it boils down to, why give us scalings or make supports that are more dependent on them than others?

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

  1. Yea, would gladly ignore doing damage as a UTILLITY supp who it's meant for. Sona stll has decent base damage. Soraka is about heals. Janna is janna. Still don't feel karma did the old justice so I'm bias there. Taric has tank itemization. Ivern has actually benifitted surprisingly. Alistar is moreytank than ever actually. Bard has inf scaling so the heal boost is great. Nami has good bases and heals. Honestly you're going overboard with ignoring the rest of your kit. You don't pick utility supports for damage and their base effects are still there. Maybe only one you're somewhat right is karma. As for sona she has good heals/shielding and base effects elsewhere not picked for damage. While karma is picked for early poke mid-end game shields. You're already giving up most of your kit to play karma supp. So yea heal+shield are superior to AP for utility supps.

  2. Now let's lower AP and increase healing effects so the prices can go down even more for our low income support overloads.

  3. Simply cause different champs and different strategies. Not every support is going to build the same but new heal+shield itemization will help stragglers make it to the big doge.

chipndip11 votes

  1. I only mentioned damage once in this thread. You know what Sona gains through building ap? She gets more damage, a stronger shield, a stronger heal, a stronger slow, a stronger speed up, and a stronger damage debuff. If you only build heal/shield power, you lose out on damage, slow strength, speed buff potency, and damage reduction potency. Stop thinking so one-dimensionally. Even Janna loses out on the AD her shield provides and the potency of her passive and W passive on top of the damage she deals from using W or Q when forgoing heal/shield power. Heal/Shield power is a fine passive, but it isn't a replacement for all the scalings in these kits. If Riot doesn't want to support these things with a damage stat, create a new stat and give us that stat instead. Otherwise, we need ap, and no cute little shortcut will ever fix that.

  2. At this point I think you're trolling.

  3. Yeah, but certain different champs have clearly been top dogs for a while now, assuming the support meta's not being run over by Soraka's spam healing or being stalled out by Janna being untouchable in lane. These champs having this power later is fine, but it's toxic early...yet it's not potent enough later anyway. It isn't always an argument of "different strategies". Rather than waiting on Riot to constantly buff/nerf the guys sticking out, just fix the root of the problem.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

  1. For sona, still see her make due with the base values of the other effects. They COULD make a new stat but for now heal+shield is addressing the main things the utility supports want and lack of AP does mean lower pricing and does address some off-concerns such as sona/bard/nami damage later on and helps prevent mages and supports itemization sharing. It IS their new stat answer and it is working so far. If anything heal/shield power can be rename and change support kit scalings to include this new stat name that way non-damage scalings and buffing can also be influenced by it....if that makes sense.

  2. I'm really not would gladly give up AP for cheaper itemization. But renaming heal/shield power to something else and changing support scalings could really improve it.

  3. Actually for 3 I was kinda rambling hoping that it was a proper response cause I didn't understand some parts lol. However I agree with it now that a way to fix it came to my head. I'll try posting about it and get it in order.

chipndip11 votes

  1. Then you didn't read the thread. If we're working with bases + cdr, those with things that don't need scaling will always be better than those that do. That's because things that scale are toned down under the assumption that they'll be stronger later. Meanwhile things like the slow on Karma's Q, the speed up on her shield, and the duration of her root...all these things are as strong as they're going to be 30 minutes in, and that gives her a good deal of strength in lane. Same for things like the duration of Nami's knock-up and suspension, or the duration of Bard's stun/stasis, or the travel speed through his tunnels or the length of them. Someone on the flip side of this equation like Lulu or Sona have much more stuff that's tied to ap scalings, and in a game that doesn't see them beyond broken, they're B-list champions in the long run. Hell, Lulu's got a higher win rate maxing her Q last rather than first, simply because it allows her to max her Whimsy second, which is a static benefit when used on enemies. EVERYTHING scales with cdr, but one advantage some support options should have over others is potency in buffs and debuffs, yet the game is hardly supporting that front because "Remember that time when FQC had 150% mana regen and got taken mid until we nerfed its mana regen in half? That's why we can't make useful support items with ap on them with more uses than just 'heal/shield'".

  2. Honestly, if they instead made a new stat that effected kit utility like slows and speed buffs, then I'd be fine with not giving a crap about ap in support itemization. However, we don't. Heal/Shield is too shallow of an answer. It isn't "working" more than it's just a band-aid. If they made a few more options to go along with it, I'd be relatively satisfied, but I'm HIGHLY disappointed in the changes they currently made with the removal of the Aegis aura, specifically with Redemption's stats. It's completely bonkers that they'd do that with such an item.

  3. Fair enough.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ERw9dfZX-rename-healshield-power-new-stat

That should address heal+shield power more than currently, I might have to add more to it but I think it explains it properly. If not post your thoughts also it would help if you made an example of why it'd be bad if you dislike it and vise versa if you like it.

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I seriously meant "Tell people to upgrade their trinket"...
Gameplay50 comments
144
votes
If you frame champ balance like this, stop talking about champ balance
Gameplay64 comments
122
votes
Honestly: "Scaling into being unstoppable" isn't an acceptable game play niche
Gameplay130 comments
122
votes