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FYI: There is nothing wrong with playing a tank midlane.

Martensitic··74 votes·4,964 views

I don't get why people flame over this.

Or why everytime I lock a midlane Nasus/Malph/Sion, people are aghast in the teamchat: "WHAT? YOU ARE MID! WHY TROLLWAWAWAWAWAWA!"

Needless to say, I have a positive winrate (65, 58, 62 %) on these champs in midlane. And that's on my main, Plat 1 ELO.

And why not play them? All three can go full damage, or full tank, or make a tactical lanepush build. They can compensate for whatever the toplane picks.

  • You go nerdy-full-dmg Riven/Yasuo? No problem, midlane tank got your back

  • Your pick is a lanepush-engine?Fine, I build a ZZ's and we make them ragequit for sheer frustratrtion.

  • You go tank? Good, I go damage.

  • Team needs AP? Fine, I make an ap build and melt those armor-stacking jokers

They are all safe in lane. There are almost no counterpicks to them among midlane champs. They can get the enemy team to make bad decisions when picking the toplane counter. They all have utility to offer. They can go AD, AP or mixed. They are all excellent lanepushers. They all sh*t on assassins and burstmages, aka. 90% of what edgelord-wannabe-Bjergsens play midlane. They can all play from behind, or snowball from a lead. They take minimum jungler attention to succed, and can deal with ganks on their own

So next time someone picks something that you would normally see toplane, and takes it mid, how about you don't assume that you are being trolled for just a second, and actually watch the guy play first?

173 Comments

Legacy Hydralpha18 votes

Galio: "I heard 'tank' and 'midlane' in the same sentence."

morris16 votes

What's your point? I can make up a new champion too.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

for the same reason people bitch about anything off meta...

they are sheep and cant learn, adapt or think can only do what the sheep herder commands them to do

see Singed summoner 11 support

Martensitic66 votes

I knew this would come up as soon as I clicked "Post".

#Sorry, but the singed supp ban is different.

When I queue for mid, I play mid.

When this guy queued for supp, he played jungle.

There is nothing wrong with playing singed supp. There is a lot wrong with abusing the role-pick system to get faster queue times, and then refuse to play the role.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

cuz he didnt baby sit adc for the 1st 3 mins and tried to still a camp from enemy jungler and then would roam gank mid or top then return to bot lane dont mean he didnt support

people need to realize what he was doing... and stop believing the spin riot put on it

Martensitic29 votes

The only spin here is from people who use this guys ban to be outraged about it and want to flame Riot.

I have watched several of his games by now to reach a conclusion of my own. What he did is so far removed from support, that you can only call it queing-abuse, sorry.

I will admit the following:

Did he troll? No. Did he try to win? Yes. Everyone calling him a troll or int. feeder is wrong.

BUT:

Did he even REMOTELY play the role he queued up for? No, not by a generously long shot.

And that is reflected in his win-ratio. One of the many mis-informations spread about this case, is his +50% winrate. THAT INCLUDES HIS TOPLANE AND JUNGLE SINGED GAMES, and is therefore an uninformed repetition in the best, and an outright lie in the worst case.

His winrate with his non-support-but-queues-as-support singed is barely above 30%. And sorry to tell you this, but when you play something off -meta for hundreds of games, then at least it should work reasonably well.

Because, if it doesn't, and you know that it doesn't, and play it anway no matter what, you just demonstrate that you want to enjoy yourself at everyone elses expense.

And 30% winrate is not reasonable.

Subject 51 votes

{quoted}

I knew this would come up as soon as I clicked "Post".

#Sorry, but the singed supp ban is different.

When I queue for mid, I play mid.

When this guy queued for supp, he played jungle.

There is nothing wrong with playing singed supp. There is a lot wrong with abusing the role-pick system to get faster queue times, and then refuse to play the role.

Huh, could have sworn his ban was because he didn't buy a sightstone.

Martensitic28 votes

Maybe because that's one of the lies that get repeated over and over again, by people who are either lying through their teeth to get attention, or gullibe facebook-educated people, who believe them.

That's how politics work these days: Repeat the same Bullsh*t over and over again, and trust in peoples stupidity.

EndlessSorcerer18 votes

Sadly, it worked for Trump.

DeathBot6669 votes

http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r589/duadmin/151222-donald-trump-2015-liar-of-the-year_zpssjiu2w5f.jpg

ShaolinToilet16 votes

Politifact is pretty biased though

President Swa1n2 votes

And before anyone asks "How can Politifact possibly be biased?", the thing is, they aren't obliged to judge EVERYTHING EVERYONE says. And so, sometimes, they pick only the statements that are either true or false to judge a certain person.

Martensitic4 votes

And before anyone asks "How can Politifact possibly be biased?", the thing is, they aren't obliged to judge EVERYTHING EVERYONE says.

You just won the award for the biggest Bullsh*t anyone ever said.

"Checking all the statements of everyone is biased..." wow, I think the milk in my fridge just curdled just because of the sheer stupidity my computer screen was forced to display.

Trias0004 votes

{quoted}

When this guy queued for supp, he played jungle.

Is there a lane named "supp"?

xScarfy6 votes

I'm pretty sure the lane you are looking for isn't called jungle either. If he queues up as “support“, than he queues up as “play a supportive champ botlane“. There would be nothing wrong by queueing up as “support“ and pick a jungler into this role to actually play him as a support, nor if you queue up as “jungler“ and pick a support champ into this role, if you actually play him as a jungler. However, there is a problem if you queue up as “support“ and play as a jungler, since its not what you queued up for!

Champion Skin5 votes

There isn't actually any particular need for the support to be bot lane other then that it is "meta" the support could just as well be top or mid or be a roamer since support is the only role which isn't tied to a gold source on the map (like the 3 laners and the jungler is)

Nurgle Prophet4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKT2q3Xc,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-03T19:46:06.186+0000)

There isn't actually any particular need for the support to be bot lane other then that it is "meta" the support could just as well be top or mid or be a roamer since support is the only role which isn't tied to a gold source on the map (like the 3 laners and the jungler is)

There is actually. Bot tower has no natural defenses early game thus it's more vulnerable to getting rushed - which only got worst with the addition of tower first blood, almost all marksmen are vulnerable early-game and will be ganked repeatedly if left alone - and it's so much easier to have a dive that's worth it on a 3vs1 compared to a 3vs2 - an equal number of people are required to have some sort of Dragon Control, and a dedicated roaming support which occasionally helps bot when needed loses so much xp in comparison that it becomes laughably feast-or-famine, and the feast doesn't compensate for the famine.

You are 100% wrong. If you want to maximize your chances of winning, the support stays bot for at least the first minutes. Before, when bot-top laneswapping was still a thing you had a point, now you're just completely and totally wrong. And the facts speak for themselves. Even professional teams don't do it. The highest echelons of coordinated play all think it's not worth it. The Singed support guy had 30% win rate on his alternative playstyle after dozens of games as Singed "support", so not even constant repetition makes it worth it. There's no point to be made here, because there' s no discussion. There is a LOT of particular needs for the support to go bot.

JMoormann5 votes

While off-meta picks aren't always bad, it's important to keep in mind that there is a reason those picks are off-meta. They can work, but that's mainly because of the element of surprise, and not because they are as strong as you claim them to be:

They are all safe in lane. There are almost no counterpicks to them among midlane champs. They can get the enemy team to make bad decisions when picking the toplane counter. They all have utility to offer. They can go AD, AP or mixed. They are all excellent lanepushers. They all sh*t on assassins and burstmages, aka. 90% of what edgelord-wannabe-Bjergsens play midlane. They can all play from behind, or snowball from a lead. They take minimum jungler attention to succed, and can deal with ganks on their own

If they were truly that strong, it would no longer be off-meta; in a game with many millions of players it would get discovered pretty quickly.

If someone picks Malphite mid and he knows what he is doing (like counterpicking an AD assassin): perfectly fine.

If someone picks Malphite mid just for the sake of "i dont want to be meta sheep xd i can play what i want" and he has no fucking idea what he is doing or how he can make it work: not so fine.

Also: what is nerdy about full damage Riven/Yasuo. You don't want to be criticized purely for your picks, then you shouldn't do the same to others either.

Shadragon5 votes

Because people don't realize that you send people mid because it's the shortest solo lane, because it's the easiest lane to roam from, and because it's the hardest lane to gank. You send people there so they can soak up gold and experience and safely transition to lategame. Karthus Galio Azir OR You send people there so they can get an early gold and exp lead and then start roaming and snowballing the other lanes. TwistedFate Ahri Katarina OR You send people there so they can shut down one of the above strategies. Talon Kassadin Pantheon

There is nothing about midlane that makes it specifically favor ranged champions who build AP and deal magic damage. It tends to be the mage lane because mages tend to fit one of those three categories, but not every mage can mid and not every mid is a mage.

TheBentOn35 votes

Team: "Why did you pick a tank midlane"

Me: "Because I want the enemy Yasuo to be miserable"

20 mins later

0-5 Yasuo : " Tahm Kench/Malphite/Cho'gath is so broken."

Me: " >:D"

Darth StepVader4 votes

As always, you can't pick an immobile but solid pick(tanks/juggernnauts) in mid, because bot lane is usually retarded. 9/10 times they will die to the mid lane roam, despite the enemy will go through a ward and you will constantly ping them to back off. For some reason, they consider it foolish to give up a wave and stay safe. So, they prefer to die, waste all summoners, lose 2 waves, lose tower and give kills/assists to enemy bot, jungle and mid thus spreading the lead to the entire enemy team.

Martensitic1 votes

I know what you mean, but either I am incredibly lucky with my teams, or botlanes who are complete morons are just not that common at my ELO.

In any case, if a botlane is so bad, a roaming midlaner would probably not be much use either...

Best case scenario, I can scare off the roam, just to watch the botlane be useless later in teamfights. Bad case, I try to roam as well, but can't do anything because the botlane is too bad to react to it. Worst case, I follow the enemy mid ad get caught.

i am not trying to say that a tanky midlane solves all these problems, but at the very least, a high-waveclear, strong pushing strongpoint mid, gives me an alternate course of action when the botlane is useless.

Darth StepVader1 votes

{quoted}

I know what you mean, but either I am incredibly lucky with my teams, or botlanes who are complete morons are just not that common at my ELO.

Well, this account is Plat 3 in both solo and flex( played only about 140+ games on this one) and the Euw is diamond 3. In both i'm a Nasus otp. I know he's a bad pick for mid(unable to follow up early) unless you go for the quasus e max with rot. But, i personally dislike that path so i avoid it.

Other tanks/juggernauts are better at waveclear and applying pressure but, slow nonetheless.

As far as botlane goes, they usually make many mistakes due to their greed and lack of map awareness. So, they die a lot to mid ganks, regardless of elo.

Martensitic3 votes

I know he's a bad pick for mid(unable to follow up early) unless you go for the quasus e max with rot.

Which is exactly the build I am using mid. How else do you think I manage to out-waveclear midlane-champions?

(Also, can we stop calling it the Quasus? As a fellow Nasus main I am sure you realize that this build was there long before he made it popular)

But, i personally dislike that path so i avoid it.

Well, sorry to sound harsh here, but that is not an argument (I know you didn't use it as one, merely mentioning it).

Ulquiorra9957 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darth Tyrannus,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKT2q3Xc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-03T11:57:50.044+0000)

So, they prefer to die, waste all summoners, lose 2 waves, lose tower and give kills/assists to enemy bot, jungle and mid thus spreading the lead to the entire enemy team.

And don't forget "wtf idiot mid why you didn't follow" while spamming ? pings on your lane.

xxxDogmanxxx3 votes

I never complain about my teammate's picks. That way lies madness. It'll open up a shit storm of negativity that I sure as hell don't want in my games.

Cipse3 votes

Isn't one problem the fact that you don't have waveclear? That's one reason why I dislike playing assassins mid.

Of course, another lane could take something with waveclear and that would work.

Swiftstrike42 votes

I play Nasus mid sometimes if the matchup is favorable. I get why people may get upset, not in that they think it is off meta (which a lot do get mad about) but some tanks can't respond to activity the same way as a typical mid laner can. Most midlaners have better mobility than a typical tank. I can't respond to my mid laner roaming bot if they are ahri if I am Nasus. So I can emphathize with that frustration. Being frustrating or annoyed because the champion is "not meta" sounds like you are playing with silver and bronze players rather than plat I.

Martensitic11 votes

I can't respond to my mid laner roaming bot if they are ahri if I am Nasus.

Actually, you can. Because as soon as that happens, they either lose their turret, or at least a big chunk of it. Can I react in the same fashion as a mobile assassin? No. Can I react at all? Absolutely.

In fact this goes so far, that their midlaner in many of my games doesn't dare to roam at all, as soon as I demonstrate how much more lane pressure I have with my faster clears and less care for his jungler ganking.

Being frustrating or annoyed because the champion is "not meta" sounds like you are playing with silver and bronze players rather than plat I.

Well, lets just say that flex is still pretty fk*d up in the matchmaking department ^^ Also, for some strange, inexplicable, and totally not suspicious reason loads of these "Plats" were bronze/silver in Season 5 (I wonder what happened during S6 to change that *cough* *cough*)

Swiftstrike42 votes

{quoted}

Actually, you can. Because as soon as that happens, they either lose their turret, or at least a big chunk of it. Can I react in the same fashion as a mobile assassin? No. Can I react at all? Absolutely.

In fact this goes so far, that their midlaner in many of my games doesn't dare to roam at all, as soon as I demonstrate how much more lane pressure I have with my faster clears and less care for his jungler ganking.

Well, lets just say that flex is still pretty fk*d up in the matchmaking department ^^ Also, for some strange, inexplicable, and totally not suspicious reason loads of these "Plats" were bronze/silver in Season 5 (I wonder what happened during S6 to change that *cough* *cough*)

Well yes you can punish them, but is isn't the same type of punishment as a mobile mid laner. And for the most part if it is early enough in the game I am unlikely to lose my tower if I roam as a mobile mid laner vs a tank.

I take Nasus mid sometimes, but largely to practice in a norm just farming in tougher matchups.

I don't think it is unacceptable, but I do lack the same type of map control when I take Nasus mid vs say Zed.

Martensitic1 votes

Sorry, but I need to ask:

Have you ever played something like Zed, against a midlane Tank, who maxes his strongest waveclearing ability, and builds ZZ'Roth as first major item?

Because trust me when I tell you, you would be very surprised how many turrets you can lose in a single roam.

Aptest2 votes

well, Sion in any case can contest most side lane roams quite well. And I would say Tahm kench can also (assuming he's playable mid)

Muddafragot2 votes

Well, that's great for plat players. My fellow bronzies won't be happy with the wave of feeding mid tanks this post could set off, though.

Martensitic1 votes

Tell me something, assuming someone is bronze, and invests a lot of research and practice into playing a pick that will surprise every bronze midlane assassin/mage, and overwhelm them because they have no idea how to play against that...

...wouldn't that be a good strategy?

Muddafragot1 votes

idk, ask somebody who feels like holding a conversation with a sentient asshole.

Martensitic1 votes

Awwww, out of arguments and immediately does the only thing hes capable of...insulting.

Bye, have fun in your ELO, you will stay there a looooooooong time =)

Muddafragot1 votes

It was never an argument, you overreactive pos

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

I ran into this situation a handful of times in game as either the mid laner or jungler. The reason this shit is off meta is because if the mid laner roams than the jungler comes mid to keep the tower safe while mid is roaming or if the enemy mid laner is being highly aggressive than you gangbang that monkey until he/she gets the message or becomes so behind that your mid laner doesn't need help anymore against em. However this rests mainly on the jungler to be aware of this to take advantage and to a lesser extent thr mid laner.

BastionKross2 votes

Mid tanks make a lot of sense really. Aside from the obvious Galio or Cho, I mean.

Tanks aren't really hurt by buying a defensive item first, so that makes them pretty nasty to deal with when you're an assassin or burst mage; aka the majority of picks in the mid lane. Tanks probably won't follow the laners when they roam, but they often have some sort of AoE or can rush Bami to push the lane and put damage on the tower.

Poke is going to be a concern, as most mid laners can punish melee champs that way. Then again, it's also a concern top lane.

Your team greatly benefits from having a tank on it somewhere, and you can't rely on a support tank to be your frontline since they have a gimped gold income. So if the top and jungler both pick squishy damage champs, and the marksman isn't willing to pick Urgot, then no one should be bitching that the mid laner is Malphite. In fact, they should be happy that someone is helping diversify the team comp.

Athenes Lulu2 votes

Huh, Chogath Galio Malphite are legit af midlaners.

Jesus is Savior1 votes

The problem is, if you play a tank into an AP mid, and build magic resist.... Bot lane ganks you once and you autolose cuz no armor.

Martensitic4 votes

If I die to a botlane gank, I either fk*ed up in the vision, or the map awareness department, meaning I deserve no better =)

PhoenixOfHeaven1 votes

Wait..... I'm so confused. I have a serious problem with Tank mids. Not because it's 'off meta' but because it's living hell. I play Cho'Gath Tank Mid, I know what i'm saying :P Atleast, he's an example of someone I play as. I've versed against, and dreaded all of it, Mundos, Chos, and the worst offenders being all those AP Assassins who like to build Tanky. ( Ekko )

Martensitic3 votes

The reason why I don't play Cho, is his, in my opinion, ludicrous mana costs early on.

I can spam the living hell out of my waveclear as Nasus, Sion or Malph, but when I try to build the same pressure with cho, I just run out of juice way too fast for my liking.

That's not to say hes not strong, I abused CHo mid heavily in Season 5. I just like the harass-and-pressure-turret approach more than the me-gonna-suddenly-kill-omnomnomnom ^^ And for constant waveclear, as I said, CHo just runs oom too fast.

PhoenixOfHeaven1 votes

Really? When I play Cho I get a kill within 5 minutes, and mana is no longer a problem :P The goal with Cho is get a kill super early, and he has some easy, Free wave clear with his E, so you could easily afford to get more mana. So I never found that mana stuff a problem. A simple Rod of Ages works wonders.

Martensitic1 votes

But that's kinda "feast or famine", because what if you don't get an early kill?

PhoenixOfHeaven1 votes

With his CC and Damage, loseing early lane is genuinely difficult, Unless you go against another tank. And if you DO die early? Get some stacks, and now a kill is near guaranteed, Even more so with a gank.

Matt24231 votes

{quoted}

But that's kinda "feast or famine", because what if you don't get an early kill?

Martensitic what is ur plat one main? can u link op.gg? trying to look at your replays but i cant find u. Thanks.

Attticus Finch1 votes

{quoted}

Needless to say, I have a positive winrate (65, 58, 62 %) on these champs in midlane.

All that means is that you'd be contributing even more to the game if you played a champion that actually belongs in mid, like a mage or an assassin.

Martensitic2 votes

No, I would most certainly not...

Because I suck at playing assassins ^^

And the only mages I can play at least half-dencent are Malzahar Annie Anivia and Lux :-)

And I have stomped both good assassins and far better mages than I am with my midlane tanks.

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