Better to take 5% CD or Pen In Masteries (For AP champions)

VladCuzBad··2 votes·1,075 views

So I was watching Youtube and I heard that the cd was a low elo thing and that you should take the pen. Did I take this into my next game? No I decided to do some testing (On my main). Using some math, I found that if you were to use cooldown, technically you would have higher dps if you would consistently use the ability. Using both abilities 100 times, the cooldown outdamaged the pen. (This was tested using a training dummy with 100 mr, I have not tested enemies of more or less mr.)

But this really doesn't apply because you do not use abilities 100 times per fight.

Please tell me if any reasoning is flawed

Pros for cooldown Possibly could get a second ability (of the same type) in a fight, (meaning if u would have done like 49 + 3 for pen, you will now do 98 instead) If you have abilities with other effects such as slows, it will be more spammable, causing longer duration.

Pros for Pen Might just give you that extra 30 - 40 dmg in your combo to secure a kill

I would say its situational based on the fight, but for someone to make the bold claim pen is always better, I feel like I am missing something. If anyone could give any insight, that would be great.

14 Comments

k wìx2 votes

Before you can successfully answer you're question, you need to consider several variables:

1.) Who are you playing? 2.) Who are you laning against? 3.) Does your team need more CC or more burst damage?

Really, there is no right answer - different setups will be better in different scenarios. There is no 'perfect' option that you should always take.

ananke1 votes

I say pen for instant burst and cd for longer fights

VladCuzBad1 votes

{quoted}

I say pen for instant burst and cd for longer fights

But you can only choose 1 mastery before the game starts. I can't go and change it mid game.

Billy VoHagen1 votes

So then it depends on the role you will be fulfilling in the game. Varies game to game and what you'll need to do.

VladCuzBad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aFNKtAep,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-25T20:23:11.110+0000)

So then it depends on the role you will be fulfilling in the game. Varies game to game and what you'll need to do.

Lets say I was a high burst, high sustain midlaner Vladimir

Derpy Watermelon2 votes

The extra 5% CDR is only really useful if your champ thrives on CDR (like Riven), and hits the max 40% CDR very early. Otherwise, the extra MPen is much more useful as a bursty mid laner (like Ahri, or Syndra, or Ekko )

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

For Vlad you want the CDR more because getting your Q and E back in 2.75s instead of 3s can mean the difference between dying and not.

AlienPrimate1 votes

The problem with CDR is that you also have mana and the enemy won't just stand there letting you hit them. You will almost never use abilities on cooldown so I think penetration is better. The only time to use CDR runes is if you want 40% but item build doesn't provide it or if your name is Nasus and you want 20% CDR at level 1 to get stacking faster.

Nosnide1 votes

You only time you ever want the CDR mastery over the pen if it is a champion that makes the most out of it, eg Riven

The pen masteries is almost always better, and even if it is a champion that can make use of 45% CDR effectively, you can never go wrong with the pen.

Escheton1 votes

You get cdr for semi-low cooldown ults that decide fights. So you can have them up for next fight already.

SwiftKitten881 votes

umm well i don't think which is better is even a question... you can't get both and have the same keystone... so pick w/e keystone you want and take the option that is for that keystone

JeffLeague1231 votes

Go get Intelligence in the Cunning tree right before Thunderlords Decree or Stormraiders Surge or Windspeakers Blessing. Don't take Precision as you can get way more Magic Pen from 9 Marks of Magic Penetration. You can get The 9 Greater Marks of Precision but you'll get less Magic Penetration from the Normal Marks of Magic Penetration. So basically the Mastery Page IS (I chose stormraiders surge in this case. All you really need to do is just change stormraiders surge to thunderlords decree.)

Wanderer or Savagery, Prefer Wanderer since mid laners roam a lot when they have the chance. Then Assassin over Secret Stash. If you have good laning or even trades take Secret Stash. If you get out-traded a lot take Assassin since it's a 1v1 lane so you can stay evenly with their damage. Get 5 points in Meditation or get 4 points in Meditation and 1 point in Merciless. I take 5 points in meditation since some mages spam abilities a lot and need good mana regeneration to back that up. Yeah you can play a champion that get's their mana back after killing a target with the certain ability blah-blah. The reason why i don't get Merciless is because most of the time in Late Game or Mid Game most enemies are at low health before you can kill them because of trading or some fighting.

Damn sometimes even your full combo will get them below 40% health or even kill them before you can chase them down or they fight but you have the increased damage because of merciless. Dangerous Game or Bandit is a tough one. You can choose bandit if it's a really "i'll keep punishing you for farming" Lane. You still get a decent amount of gold but Dangerous Game Saves lives. I don't know how many but ignite or damage over times or even a god damn minion would kill you if you had bandit and at really really low health. Dangerous game restores 5% of your health and mana when you kill a champion or get an assist. The 5% health gain can save you from the stuff that can kill you after the enemy dies. Mana on the other hand can save you from the enemy chasing you or a sudden 2v1. Now Precision or Intelligence. Get ready for some Math! precision is 6 Lethality at level 1 and stays as 6 lethality over the game unless if you buy lethality items, and an extra 1.75 Magic Penetration. After that the next 17 level's you'll gain 0.25 per level Magic Penetration.

If you have the 9 Marks of Magic Penetration you'll get this 0.87 Magic Penetration in fact. 0.87 X 9 = 7.83 Magic Penetration. 7.83 + 1.75 = 9.58. Sometimes they'll round it so it says 10 but it's that number anyways. Apparently when i go into game. It only add's 0.25 Magic Penetration and not that 1.25. With the rounded 10 Magic penetration from Mark of Magic Penetration Assuming you have them in your rune page. ( 0.25 X 17 = 4.25 ) + 10 = 14.25 Magic Penetration. Without the 1.75 and Precision Mastery you're going to have 7.83 magic penetration or rounded to 8 magic penetration.

14.25 Magic penetration isn't actually as much as the 15% Sorcerer's Shoes Magic Penetration. This Magic Penetration and Lethality are FLAT Penetration and not percentage. Assuming that you're level 1, 10 Magic Penetration is actually pretty good since most mages at level 1 are around the 30-40's. If they have 6 Scaling CDR glyphs and 3 flat Magic resist they are going to be around 34-36 Magic resist. sometimes lower than that. if they have 9 flat magic resist glyphs they will be over the 40's. Since you have 14.25 Flat magic penetration your abilities will do damage like they have magic resist around the 30's - 36's In my opinion i'll take intelligence with any type of mage anytime. I only take precision for the Ad's or by accident. Then get whichever keystone you need Thunderlords Decree or Stormraiders Surge or WindSpeakers Blessing. "ok but don't you want the penetration so you can activate Stormraiders Surge Faster or have Thunderlords Decree do more Damage?" In my response yes and no. It is nice to activate it faster and do more damage. But at the cost you're also doing less Damage Per Second. Using abilities more assuming you don't miss them is much more efficient then doing more damage for things that you can miss.

Even though the more you can use the more you have the chance to miss. Your other abilities can help that since THEIR Cooldowns are also lowered. So either more damage. Or more Damage per second. I'd take Damage per second. I actually had to go into a practice tool game and had to do the math by Guess and Check. Well thanks for those people who read this all and maybe even upvote or just completely disagree, either way thanks or "okay" and i hope you have a nice day!

Sanctimonious1 votes

Depends on the champion. Kayle, for instance only really needs 40% cdr, so going over that won't do anything. However, on something like riven the lethality makes a big difference for early kills. I think the pen may actually be better early / mid for impacting games on most spell casters, but then again you really have to look at who you're talking about.

rework trundle1 votes

I'd say mages who aren't known for heavy burst take the extra cdr (ZiggsXerathLissandra), while those who can one shot at ease should take the extra pen (LeblancKassadinOrianna)

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