Boards›Gameplay

More bronze and silver divisions needed?

Kilanost··1 votes·380 views

Lately I have been considering the skill differences between ranks and have found what I believe to be a major flaw in lower ranking match making. I will use perceptions of skill differences between higher help rankings to support this theory. High elo players reading this, keep an open mind about the actual skill differences that exist at these levels instead of blowing the idea off saying all low elo is equally bad.

If you ask most high elo players, the difference in skill between mid plat and mid diamond is huge. When you look at percentages difference of the player population, this is a mere few percentage point increase. This is because skill will vary according to a normal distribution curve in a population (think back to your high school stats and that's the giant hump of a curve where 60 something percent of the population lands exactly 1 standard deviation from the mean. That means that the greatest differences in skill will be found at the two ends of the curve (highest elo and lowest elo).

If a few percentage point increase in relative skill level at high elo can make a big difference, then it certainly can at lower elo.

If someone is bronze 5, they can in theory be matched with someone up to silver 5. Silver 5 as a division lands at roughly the average skill level for the league population. B5 represents the absolute lowest people on the standard distribution. We don't see a big difference because in our heads we think oh it's just 1 full rank increase. However if you were to use the other extreme where we match a silver 5 player with a mid diamond player, the issue becomes very clear. According to a normal skill distribution, the relative difference in skill between B5 and S5 AS A PERCENT OF THE PLAYER POPULATION is the same difference as that between S5 and diamonds.

Yet we don't match diamonds with silvers and a big part of this is how many divisions separate the two.

If we were to further divide bronze and silver into 10 divisions each, we would create a system that would be much better at matching players by their relative skill level over that bottom 50% player bin.

Please offer feedback and pass this on to a rioter if you happen to know one.

15 Comments

Mr Broken Wings1 votes

all low elo is equally bad.

Kilanost1 votes

OK then, how about this for a reason you should care and not blow this idea off:

  1. More divisions acts as a better filter to keep the shitters out of your higher elo games.
  2. Better differentiation at lower elo negates a large part of the argument around why people believe elo hell exists.
  3. It just makes good sense.
FioraWillCarry1 votes

I find the idea that a B5 player is anything like a S5 player to be absolutely offensive. As someone who spent a lot of time this season playing in both the bowels of Bronze(B5 to B3) and in the Silver tier(S5 to S3), I can tell you there is a huge skill difference. Mechanically, they are about the same. For example, a B5 player can execute a ward hop insec with Lee-Sin just as good as a S5 player. However, a B5's knowledge is worlds away from a S5's. Silver players understand basic stuff like freezing, zoning, last hitting, split-pushing etc. A B5 player knows absolutely nothing about these things. For them, the game is about killing their opponents over and over again until they are magically at their nexus. They have no concept of map pressure or the importance of CS. They have no idea about the importance of level and item advantages. These are things Silver players know and it makes a very large difference.

EDIT: Ok I re-read your post and it seems you were not suggesting that after all. I wasn't too sure what you were getting at when I read your post the first time. I think you could make it a bit clearer. Had to read your post like 5 times before I could understand what you were trying to say. Regardless, I'll leave this here.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

Anyways, with reference to your idea. I don't believe that more divisions are necessary. A better idea is to have a tier below Bronze. Yes, there are people that fuckin bad.

Kilanost1 votes

{quoted}

Anyways, with reference to your idea. I don't believe that more divisions are necessary. A better idea is to have a tier below Bronze. Yes, there are people that fuckin bad.

No i was stating that there is, in fact, a massive difference in player skill between B5 and S5, over similar degress to that between a S5 and Diamond player as a percentage change in their ranking (roughly a 50% jump in the player skill by population). As a result, you are stuck with uncarryable games at lower elos where people are just too heavy for you to win your game.

Kirius Dark1 votes

So you want it even harder for people to climb out of bronze and silver, needing to complete more promos and divisions to rank out of it??

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Level 18 Feeder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aE2vnN4O,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-15T16:39:11.461+0000)

So you want it even harder for people to climb out of bronze and silver, needing to complete more promos and divisions to rank out of it??

It would keep the feeders out of Silver at least. Let those feeding assholes rot in Bronze.

Kirius Dark2 votes

{quoted}

It would keep the feeders out of Silver at least. Let those feeding assholes rot in Bronze.

Newsflash - there are feeders in every tier

FioraWillCarry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Level 18 Feeder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aE2vnN4O,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-11-15T17:27:32.605+0000)

Newsflash - there are feeders in every tier

There is a special breed of feeder in Bronze. A type not found in any other habitat. A highly evolved feeder that has been honed by seasons of natural selection to feed where other species of feeders dare not. Their method of feeding which has evolved in the harsh environment of Bronze ensures dominion over their domain.

Evolved traits of these feeders include, the ability to give up first blood before 2 minutes, ability to keep feeding for 30 minutes straight, feeding every 30 seconds. The ability to take allies with them resulting in double and even tripple kills. A highly evolved and rare trait which enables them to feed other feeders, many of them more evolved than they are. Another highly evolved and rare trait is that they can turn non-feeders into feeders like them, which is how they are so damned effective. They also have the ability to induce trolling in others. They can also induce massive doses of saltiness in others. They have been known to induce permabans in others while remaining unbanned themselves. Yes folks, this is not your common feeder. It's the dominant species of feeder in Bronze.

Now they threaten to spread to other habitats like Silver and perhaps even Gold one day. We must do our part to ensure this doesn't happen. You need to do your part and support initiatives to preserve their habitat and ensure they remain within that habitat. Can we count on your support ?

Kirius Dark1 votes

Wow must be quite elusive. I made this troll acct just to get a rare sighting of one and ended up in silver after trying to place low

Kilanost1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Level 18 Feeder,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aE2vnN4O,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-15T16:39:11.461+0000)

So you want it even harder for people to climb out of bronze and silver, needing to complete more promos and divisions to rank out of it??

In theory, this would actually make it easier to climb out of bronze and silver because the really bad players would filter more toward the bottom of the expanded divisions over time, leaving you with more competent teammates and reducing the number of "uncarryable" games you will encounter.

Kirius Dark1 votes

No thats only if you assume that you're grouped with the really bad bronze 4-5 when youre in bronze 1, or silver 4-5 when youre in silver 1 when that isnt the case and rarely ever happens. Also assuming that people in higher bronze or higher silver are carryable when a lot of the time theyre total shitters too who dont even know what items to build or ability to max yet can still hold steady at a 45% win rate to stay in the division

Sukishoo1 votes

Please lets just go add 20 Divisions to each tier XD

Kilanost1 votes

{quoted}

Please lets just go add 20 Divisions to each tier XD

The bottom 50% of the players are currently divided by roughly 6 divisons where the top 50% are divided by roughly 20 divisions. This creates a system where the hypothetical worst player to ever play league could be on a team with people who are roughly average, feed all game long, contribute nothing, and consequently make the game uncarryable for that team. More degrees of separation would result in better match making and ultimately make it easier for players to climb as they would no longer be weighted down by very poor performances of the absolute bottom tier players.

And added benefit is that it would make boosting and boosting services more time consuming for people thereby reducing the number of boosted accounts in these elos.

Kilanost1 votes

From my perspective, a low bronze (who i can technically be grouped with if he's duoing with a friend who is higher elo) generally wont contribute much to a game that is supposed to be mid-silver elo. At best, they manage not to feed. The more divisions you put between you and people of significantly lower skill than you, the less likely you will play with them. Sticking 5 divisions between me and that player in theory keeps them out of my games.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Kilanost

Hey Riot...Xerath still not disabled
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous52 comments
17
votes
The TRUTH about the tank reworks
Gameplay25 comments
14
votes
Reminder that Zac needs a revert
Gameplay6 comments
9
votes
WTF PBE Sunfire/Cinderhulk changes
Gameplay37 comments
6
votes
Post by people playing jungle for the first time crack me up
Gameplay10 comments
3
votes
The REAL reason ADC feels weak
Gameplay18 comments
3
votes