The TRUTH about the tank reworks

Kilanost·4/20/2017, 4:06:21 AM·14 votes·1,439 views

People have been making a lot of posts about the tank rework and after watching game play of all 3 tanks, I began replying to those posts. Below is my reply to one of those posts that I felt would be worth making into its own independent thread:

Literally the only thing Sej needed before the rework was increased damage to jungle monsters. She had exactly what they wanted in tanks: Low damage, high CC. In fact, my nickname for Sej was "The CC Queen." Now, they removed her most consistent form of CC (the slow on her E) and made it so the skill can only be used it stacked 4 times which requires the help of ONLY melee champions to do. Playing on a team with a Thresh support and a Rumble top? This skill is useless. Having 20% of your kit so dependent on having a team with at least 1 other melee auto attacker is ridiculous. This screams of the roll out being rushed. They had a deadline of the end of Spring split and had this passive on the table and said "hmm, seems strong if everyone can stack it (a mechanic that is already in the game Braum ) but the dead line is tomorrow. Lets just make it melee only. But then they did the most contradictory thing ever. They gave a tank 25% max health magic damage. So the end result of trying to lower tank damage and increase CC for Sej was remove her main source of CC and give her shit tons of burst. They literally took the champion that did exactly what they thought tanks should be doing and made her the exact opposite of that.

Want another example of how rushed this dog shit tank update is? Here we go:

Look at zac's ult. First thing it does is remove movement impairing effects. BUT then you have to channel his ult for up to 2.5 seconds. So remove movement impairment but force the champion to sit there anyway to use his ult. Put the cleanse on his E so he has a decent escape because his old Ulti helped him get out of shitty situations which he is highly susceptible to mid game. Also, one of the benefits of his old ult was that it spewed blobs all over the place for some healing after the initial engage. Where is that? Its bad enough the blobs spawn so far away now (an old nerf) but now you get that much less of them? Lets not even go into how they tried to introduce extra CC into his kit by removing the extremely consistent and useful AOE slow on hsi Q and making it an ability that only affects the first enemy hit. Then you have to find another enemy nearby to smash into them. Ive watched 2 full game plays and I've only seen this "smash" successfully pulled off once on an enemy champion. So between that inconsistency and how easy it is to dash/flash/walk out of Zac's ulti, they've essentially made the only two things in his kit that they changed completely inconsistent. Wanted to fix pre PBE zac? Knock some damage off each of his ulti bounces. Done. Seriously of all the tanks to choose, why rework the one that feels the most satisfying to play that is already extremely unique?

Or we can talk Maokai:

Here's a guy who was the tankiest champion in the game. The PBE rework has no damage mitigation in his otherwise completely weak kit. The best thing that he has for sustain is his passive which now has a ridiculously high cooldown for most of the game.... which was the only thing that really allowed him to sustain in many of the lanes he was in. They made his travel time on his root so slow that people have enough time to play a ward and ward hop to a turret (or just dash or walk) so that if you use it in lane, you run a high risk of taking turret fire. Or, if you're Quinn, you just out run it. Yes thats right, you can flat out outrun Maokai's point and click snare and pull him a decent distance toward where you can get an easy kill. On top of that, they moved his %health damage to his sapling toss which has a flat 12 second cooldown at all levels and its full damage is completely dependent on being placed in bushes. So now he has zero lane damage (because saplings 9 times out of 10 end up running toward minions after the enemy champion starts walking away) and also poor lane sustain and zero damage mitigation for late game. What does he have now? A nami ult that is so slow people can just walk out of range so the only way its hitting anyone is point blank in which case it only snares for .6 seconds and affects no one else behind the person first hit. So basically this rework is probably the largest failure because he has no ability to consistently tank damage, his snare has just as much of a chance of getting him killed as it does making a play, and he has no lane presence because most of his damage got transfered to an ability that chooses its own aggro so people can just walk away form it and let it aggro a minion or even just out run the damage entirely. So basically they took the best tank in the game, removed his damage mitigation, nerfed his passive to high hell, took the %health damage he could consistently hit (at the risk of over extending) and moved it to an ability with a flat 12 second cooldown that you have no control over after it lands that is easily the 2nd easiest ability to out run in the game, second only to his new, shittier nami ult rip off.

These reworks are an abomination. Straight up hot garbage.

25 Comments

xJLx MCHammer4/20/2017, 4:10:26 AM6 votes

Personally, these reworks..IE assassin, mages, tank reworks was just a way for Riot to do 2 things -Remove champion's abilities which they personally think have no counterplay or bad design. -Making scaling more linear with levels and less so with items

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4/20/2017, 4:17:17 AM4 votes

i dont like the rework... im pissed about the maokai... he is my favorite champ

are you kidding me with taking the damage off W ( %hp damage) and making it on E where you have zero control if it hits anyone... like they cant run away from it? his ult is flat out joke. they completely ruined his identity as the anti carry tank with removal of his ult. if you are dumb enough to get hit by his ult now with the rework then you just need to uninstall that is how bad it is... he can cast it himself and out run it ... that is how slow it is... it only roots for .5 seconds if it hits at short range and longer at max range but who is gonna get caught by that?

i have for one defended riot on a lot of thing but this really ruins things for me... they have had only two successful reworks (IN MY OPINION ) warwick and poppy. poppy is legit the best thing they did to a champ eveything since then is down hill

SzGamer2274/20/2017, 7:07:46 PM3 votes

Might want to change the title of your thread to "The STUBBORN OPINION about the tank updates"

Unless I see God descend from heaven and bestow upon you the powers of infallibility you're just another boards member complaining about the latest terrible design choices that Riot is making, standing in righteous indignation in the face of design choices of a game developer that managed to accrue 100 million monthly players over the years.

Let's jump right into what you're subbornly opinionated about then, eh?

{quoted}

Literally the only thing Sej needed before the rework was increased damage to jungle monsters.

This is concerning. Do you know what a "rework" is? Do you know what they're supposed to do? Sejuani got reworked because her ult was the only satisfying part of her kit, and she had the archetpye of "Barbarian Warlord Cavalier" that was completely untouched on by her kit. If you don't even recognize what the purpose of a rework is, I greatly doubt your ability to coherently argue whether one was unnecessary or whether it delivered on its goals.

She had exactly what they wanted in tanks: Low damage, high CC.

Nooo... a tank has the traits that a tank is supposed to have? Well shit I guess that means there's no reason to touch them. Mages use abilities to deal damage. Juggernauts are immobile damage dealers. Marksmen are ranged basic attackers. Skirmishers are mobile and kill things quickly. Everything looks perfect. Nothing could possibly be wrong with the game then, could it? /s

Now, they removed her most consistent form of CC (the slow on her E) and made it so the skill can only be used it stacked 4 times which requires the help of ONLY melee champions to do. Playing on a team with a Thresh support and a Rumble top? This skill is useless.

"Oh my god there's synergy with certain champions but not others :O this must be a mistake or an oversight how could they do this"

Hahaha.

Even considering the fact that it's a specific mechanical synergy doesn't change anything.

Yasuo This man here can do his job even when noone on his team picks another knockup champion.

Xayah Rakan These two don't need each other to perform their function.

As far as mechanical synergies go, having another melee champion on your team is stupidly easy to fulfill, and even if you don't, tanks are designed to be sticky and take a beating. She'd have no trouble activating this passive on her own against anyone who isn't hypermobile.

Want another example of how rushed this dog shit tank update is? Here we go:

I love how people think they can identify when something is rushed. "I disagree with the developers direction, therefore they put insufficient effort into the design". Hahaha. Could you argue that the Aatrox mini-rework was rushed? Sure, you could say that because it was meant to be a temporary fix that Riot might not have put the same level of effort into the changes as fuller reworks. The Assassin updates? They split their resources among a broad array of champions, which means each one didn't get the full attention of the rework team. You could be wrong about how much effort was applied, but the points are there.

Now, when an entire division of a rework team is dedicated to looking at 3 champions for something like the space of a year, you cannot say that the reworks are rushed, unless you think that a new-champion level of dedication is required for each to only end up making rework-level changes, which is ridiculous.

Look at zac's ult. First thing it does is remove movement impairing effects. BUT then you have to channel his ult for up to 2.5 seconds. So remove movement impairment but force the champion to sit there anyway to use his ult. Put the cleanse on his E so he has a decent escape because his old Ulti helped him get out of shitty situations which he is highly susceptible to mid game.

Wha... where are you going with this? You sound like Zac has had a cleanse in his kit the whole time, that Riot has somehow gutted him by removing it, but he doesn't. Zac's ult isn't meant to be a cleanse: he's not only slippery due to his live E, but he's also tanky as hell and has a passive that makes him even harder to kill once you've killed him.

What you're saying sounds to me like someone saying "why would you give Warwick cc immunity for his ult? That's not where he needs cc immunity, he needs cc immunity on a regular ability so he can use it to escape!" which is hilarious. If you'll kindly remember the Assassin update, where Rengar had an effect that made one of his empowered abilities grant him cc immunity for a patch or two, and when the shit hit the fan shortly after the rework they quickly removed it, becuase an enemy with a cleanse on a normal ability feels terrible to play against, and that wasn't even a sniper-ranged dash, that was just him walking out of cc.

Also, one of the benefits of his old ult was that it spewed blobs all over the place for some healing after the initial engage. Where is that? Its bad enough the blobs spawn so far away now (an old nerf) but now you get that much less of them?

This is just about the only valid concern I've seen in your post so far. Being weary of Zac losing some sustain at a critical point in a battle is something I can actually understand.

Lets not even go into how they tried to introduce extra CC into his kit by removing the extremely consistent and useful AOE slow on hsi Q and making it an ability that only affects the first enemy hit. Then you have to find another enemy nearby to smash into them.

...aaand we're back to disagreeing. Zac's abilities change from being braindead to being slightly situational and all of a sudden it's "useless". They replaced an uninteractive soft cc ability with a hard cc ability that requires foresight and analyzing a situation. Seeing as Zac is an atrociously straightforward champion on live servers it's understandable that transitioning into having to have foresight and situational awareness is going to be a slight shock, but another aspect of the tank update that you've totally glossed over was that Riot is trying to make tanks less braindead to play. Players improved their performance on a tank champion for their first 10 or so games and then had complete mechanical knowledge of the champ, and stopped improving. If you're allergic to changes that reward skill and mechanical knowledge then League is evolving in a direction that you're definitely not going to like.

Or we can talk Maokai:

(insert paragraph of straight up hot garbage)

After saying "Sejuani had low damage and high cc so she was perfect" you go into a disgustingly hypocritical stance about how making Maokai do less damage and have more cc was a terrible direction to go for him. This is where you lose all credibility in my eyes. You're literally just pointing out the intended weaknesses of Maokai's new kit and giving yourself tunnelvision to convince yourself they're bad. You don't even realize or care that you've lost all consistency about what you're complaining about. You were very likely upset by the first round or two of change in the update and as a result your subconscious came to expect that the Maokai changes were just as bad, and lo and behold, the self-fulfilling prophecy fulfilled itself. You became so convinced that the whole rework was bad that everything about it just became bad, and the human mind as clever as it is quickly pieced together any and all justification for its feelings so that it had security.

I can't believe that you've been calm and okay with every rework prior to the tank update, and then dismiss three consecutive reworks as being less than poor without some weird psychological phenomena playing a huge role in how biased you are against these changes. You're not giving a fair analysis of the reworks; you're not even trying.You have neglected to wait long enough for these changes to hit live and pan out, you have no intention of trying the changes for yourself to give them a fair chance, you focus only on what you believe is negative about the changes, give no regard to what the intentions behind the changes are, nor look for any positive aspects for the changes.

Your review is permeated by bias. It's a waste of time to anyone who actually wants a fair discussion of the topic. Lucky for you, I've got a lot of free time on my hands, so I've got time to waste in a futile attempt to combat the atrocious amount of bias you've loaded up on this topic. So while I'm here, what say you now?

Michael7024/20/2017, 4:18:49 AM2 votes

You're right about 1 thing, Riot constantly contradicts themselves. They say they want one thing and then do the exact opposite. Either they're retarded or they're trolling. I first noticed this in season 5 when they removed a bunch of summoner spells while complaining that players only use a few spells.

Rengooo4/20/2017, 5:40:10 AM1 votes

Probably because they are trying to inadvertently nerfs tanks. They don't like how tanks well... tank, aaand deal loads of damage.

Mao is a perfect example, he could literally duel half the fighters out there whilst also tank insane amounts of damage in a team fight. Which is where the whole "tanks op" complaining comes from when they sort of crowd out more damage orientated champs with less cc, would agree in mao's case though, he might be too squish now?

Regardless, would recommend waiting till they are all live and giving them a go then, might turn out they are more enjoyable, rito reworks seem to be 50/50. One of them is bound to be good right? XD

Meep Man4/23/2017, 10:34:55 PM1 votes

Here's a guy who was the tankiest champion in the game.

Galio ?

jinxedchef4/23/2017, 11:01:10 PM1 votes

I honestly think that Riot is just trying to get rid of the tank class completely.