I'm starting to think that top and bot (hell, every lane but jungle) has the same problem.

Ralanr··4 votes·506 views

In that the champions designed for those lanes cannot really function anywhere else as remotely viable.

Now we all know that champions like Darius are great in top. But where else can Darius be played?

Not in mid. Gets poked down too hard from ranged champions. Same problem in bot and he lacks ganking power to jungle (and sustain I guess).

He can only work in top lane and only really lanes well against melee champions. Give him a ranged top laner and you've basically made him unable to function.

Now let's look at bot. Marksmen are squishy and don't scale well with levels. They want gold so they can get their stats to shred people. It's so important to the game that a marksman gets their gear that we seem so focused on denying that as much as possible with 4-5 man ganks early in the game. Course because no one was better than marksmen at their job, it was pretty much accepted as normal (really frustrating, but if you don't expect to get ganked often as the main source of damage, then you're honestly an idiot).

Except now they do have someone, Ziggs. And because of the mad bomber, bot lane is experiencing something that every top and midlaner hates in league.

Being made irrelevant by another class.

Fighters hate it when tanks start kicking them out of top. Mages hate it when assassins kick them from mid. Tanks hate it when fighters make Top impossible for them. Assassins hate losing their spot in mid to mages. Both tanks and fighters hate ranged top laners with the kind of fury that makes friendships of mutual hatred.

Marksmen just hate other marksmen. And supports but they never felt threatened by supports replacing them.

Ziggs is giving that threat. That realization that someone can do your job better. Usually you just move to the jungle for a while, try to pick up your life or get used to your new environment. Mages (like Karthus) are pretty much extinct in the jungle and move to top when mid is unkind, leaving our tanks and fighters tilted again. Especially those who gank jungle to the level of viability or "not shit" (Darius, Garen, Gnar).

But what about marksmen? Where can they go? Not jungle (baring some exceptions). Possibly mid, but just ask mages what it's like to lane against your counter for three seasons.

So what point am I trying to make? It's simple really.

LANE DIVERSITY IS PURE GARBAGE

And it's going to stay garbage until we can make it so a fighter or a marksman can go into any lane and reasonably work there outside of heavy counters.

That's just my thoughts on the whole thing.

19 Comments

4632 votes

TL DR please

I didn't go to school so it will take me about 4 hours to read all of it

thx

xoxox

Ralanr1 votes

It's bolded but here it is again.

LANE DIVERSITY IS PURE GARBAGE and that's bad imo.

KraDEsluP2821 votes

why is lane diversity garbage?

Ralanr1 votes

Because (imo) the moment another class of champion shows up in your lane and starts working better, your class doesn't really have anywhere else to go.

4631 votes

I still dont get the issue here lol

I'm fine with what champions go where atm, I honestly dont give a shit.

Just let me play my favorites and we're gucci

I dont even care that Ziggs is bot atm, if he's meta, I'm gonna find a way to beat him.

Ralanr1 votes

Let's give a hypothetical scenario.

Say your favorite champion is Darius, but the top lane meta is Quinn/Jayce/Gnar/Kennen.

Think you'll really get to play your favorite?

It's an extreme obviously.

4631 votes

I might've been a bit careless with that line there.

I don't have favorites, I play whats meta and I adapt as things shift.

If this WERE the scenario though.

I would probably find my second favorite that can compete. If I was a 1 trick darius, I guess I have stay true and drop to Gold 1 this year xd

I don't think it makes sense to continue or 1 trick a champion that doesn't work well enough to climb to D2+

But that's speaking for myself personally since I'm interested in reaching that far up in the ladder.

I'm sure a lot of champions can be played up to that caliber if you were good enough with them. Maybe Darius isn't one of them, Irelia is also a melee, I think I would be fine if you replaced that with what you chose for me.

Ralanr1 votes

I guess I just hate when certain things become meta. Normally I just brush it off, but this bot Ziggs and weak ADC complaints from ADC mains are just annoying me.

4631 votes

Who cares about what people complain about?

Who cares if Ziggs is meta bot now? It's just apart of the ever evolving meta.

In fact, if Ziggs is now bot, certain ADCs might be bumped in tier and some might become niche picks against him.

It just makes things more spicy and entertaining, I want to learn how to BEAT Ziggs bot, I don't wanna bitch and moan and stay hardstuck D5.

Obviously its a different story if we're talking about how overwhelming certain Champions / Champion abilities are.

But since we're talking about a meta shift specifically about champions and champions in certain lanes, I don't think there's a big deal.

It's just that someone discovered it finally and unveiled the NEW meta. Now this will change everything and you as a player will have to adapt if you want to keep up.

I mean Ziggs was like this since 6.9 It was unveiled in 6.24 and now he's apart of bot meta.

khorney1 votes

well i complain about weak adcs,,,, well adc to be more precise.. that my friend is varus. He was perfectly fine before then they inadvertently nerfed him via nerfing of fervor and nerfing of armor pent into lethality... The only thing that wasnt effected was a standard plain crit build.... to me its boring and is not as damaging as the on hit i would run. Why the on hit was better well it was more of a hybrid damage and with that it allowed me to do the burst of ap but the dps of a ad. How fun it was 2 shotting a adc who was like 9 and 0 then state i was hacking lol pfff

khorney1 votes

let em stop you there..... if you know that they are taking that there renekton is your friend... people with a gap closer are your friends, darius has no gap closer, also darius supp works well enough because of his grab.

Skelenth1 votes

Read. The. Thread.

Risk of Fate2 votes

Marksmen just hate other marksmen. And supports but they never felt threatened by supports replacing them.

Playing old Taric against a Leona who had the ability to deal with mixed damage and effectively out-tank? Oh yeah I definitely dropped the guy and picked her up after.

As for Darius Jungle, I've always been of the notion that Top and Jungle champions can easily swap while mages and supports can as well. Mid and top swaps tend to be weird, but from what I understand Top has always been that battleground of a lot of champions both ranged melee, AD vs AP (I remember top lane consisting of Blitzcrank Vi Lissandra Diana Khazix whom you never see there now)

I'm not one for understanding counters the way some others might. Heck, Yasuo should 100% beat a Lux in lane, but yet I have managed to kick them out of lane back in Season 5 even after his shield buff. Now, that isn't to say there aren't any, but to me it seems like people have this reliance that if "X counters Y, then it's bad." Yes statistics from the highest level of play will usually prove that, but what about for the average players?

For some time, I liked to run Ashe mid before she got nerfed. It was fun and I wanted to prove that no marksman needed a support to function outside of bot lane. Then came things like Graves and Quinn Jungle and even Quinn mid (yes, I realize Vayne Top is a thing, but I really consider her more of the Graves level of being a Skirmishing marksman). As well, has anyone ever thought that taking Taliyah Top would benefit her more there than running it down mid since the size of the lane allows her breathing room?

Before I go too far off track, I pretty much just wanted to say that people should try new things like Ziggs bot. While there are counters, I won't deny that, using that to justify not being able to do well against something just shows you don't really understand what a game is. It's about the skill of the player behind the character, the ability to judge whether or not a matchup is favorable or not. I could be the most God-like Ahri, but it doesn't mean I can instantly take down every other person, say if I were laning against a Malphite, Garen, or Renekton. It is matchups like these where I rely less on the strengths of my pick against theirs and focus more on my general level of play (ie, knowing their cooldowns and ranges).

Others should experiment and try something different, the game is extremely stale when you see the same 15-20 picks every game. How about trying to play Riven as a support or even Darius? What is stopping you from jungling with Jinx? I realize there are some struggles like the Karthus jungle, but still you should at least give something that could potentially work a try, why not go for it?

still kae2 votes

I'm pretty sure after reading the op and then the replies that most of you either never read the thread or don't understand what he's saying.

He's trying to say that if you have a niche market and the market is replaced by the new and fancy that the old market just simply expires. Like wow, stay in school ;3

Zerglinglol1 votes

Since when has riot promoted lane diversity? Not as long as I've played. I honestly don't see any issue with champions having niche lanes. That said, I'll jungle ANY champion ;)

Ralanr1 votes

Honestly my biggest issue is when ranged top laners get prominent, everyone is like "suck it up" or "don't play top if you hate it"

Top is where the champions I like are designed and balanced around. They rarely will function well anywhere else.

Hell, supports have it the worse because any time they showcase being able to function in a solo lane, they get nerfed!

Aptest1 votes

Kalista I don't see the problem i'll just move top and rush FM like this shroom dude what was his name? Teemo You still mad at me for breaking up with you? Kalista Sniff

Slythion1 votes

while like, I'm extremely tired and don't want to handle a broud topic like lane diversity atm, I'd just like to point out Mid Darius isn't that bad and I've actually had some decent success at it.

It's no different than facing a teemo or kennen in the top lane, and all you do is rush some magic resist and rush at them for the rest of laning phase. Not to mention he fairs pretty well at 2v1's for ganks, and if you take ghost things become much easier.

Just wanted to say, don't knock off the mid Darius completely friend, it's quite fun :)

khorney1 votes

ive seen peopel do darius jungle

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