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How can this game be about skill?

Diamondserpent··1 votes·871 views

Riot says they want League to be a TEAM based Moba that REQUIRES skill to play. Well I think I've had just enough rubbish from Riot over the last few years. Truth is, this game is not about skill at all... if this game was more like Heroes of the Storm where EXP is earned globally and kills do not provide any extra gold, just experience. Then this game would be about skill. Then people would not be greedy and dive for kills or try to "carry" the game, which makes most games unbearably toxic.

However as long as champions like Vayne exist who just get to auto-attack and suffer from the delusion that somehow takes skill, this game will never be really anything to take seriously. At least champions like Ekko actually require you to hit abilities and you can miss. Where is the part of Vayne 's kit where she can miss... Oh wait.

Items that provide stupid on-hit effects like item 3153 need to be nerfed because of the skill-cap of how easy some AD champs are to play. MasterYi anyone? I mean seriously, why have champions that just need to auto-attack and thats it to win a trade and then become an unbeatable monster lategame because of free spammable mobility.

Vayne SHOULD be as immobile as Velkoz to make up for her easy skill level and her lack of damage that can miss. At least Varus Jinx and Caitlyn actually REQUIRE you to aim AT LEAST one ability.

I just don't see how anyone could sit there and go "Yeah, I'm skilled" when you play a champ like Vayne who its PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to miss ANY of her abilities. How is that skill? Yes, positioning is also important... ON EVERY CHAMPION in the game. So why does she pay NOTHING for her auto-attack, never-miss abilities and spammable mobility? Where is the logic in that design?

This isn't a rant, this is asking for clarity on how Vayne was conceived as a champion? She has a strong early, middle and insane late so why does she get such a large power budget?

15 Comments

Dr Poro2 votes

Vayne and Yi actually have a pretty high skill roof. Skill shots is not the only thing that require skill. Dodging and positioning play an atleast as important role in the micro management. As Vayne, you want to be close enough to be able to AA them but not too close so that they can kill you. You need to be at a perfect range the whole time and use your Q to do this, while also dodging potential skill shots with it. Master Yi thrives in low elo queues by just (R E) Q AAing everyone to death, but in high elo play, he actually needs to use his abilities efficiently to survive. He must position extremely well to be able to deal any damage before he gets blown up. If he fails to dodge abilities with his Q and fails to soak major damage with a quick W, he will fail miserably unless he somehow got fed early game, and even then one stun is enough to shut him down.

Diamondserpent1 votes

Thats a load of crap! EVERY champ needs dodging and positioning in order to be effective so stop trying to defend your easy as hell champs. This is my problem with most AD based champs, they just DON'T TAKE SKILL because their damage comes from auto-attacks and you can NEVER miss auto-attacks. Its just not skill, sorry.

Asuna37241 votes

In my opinion using vayne's condemn is a skill shot in a sense. You have to line it up with terrain for added stun. Yes I am aware that it is also used in other cases or simply pushing someone back. The reason vayne is a skill based champ is because of her mobility which becomes increased when moving towards a champion and back to normal when running away. This leads to people playing vayne having to be much better at kiting and orbwalking when fighting.

Diamondserpent1 votes

That isn't a skillshot because it will NEVER MISS when you fire it, it doesn't matter about the knockback component because its usually so large that you have to be really really bad to not get the stun off. She isn't a skill based champ at all, she is a high reward, low risk champ that has become a cancer of this game because of her targeted abilities and no real counter-play, even for tanks.

Regardless, Vayne should be immobile as Velkoz, to pay for her enormous damage and potential in lane.

Asuna37241 votes

maokai? blitz? vi? morg? these and many other champs can simply lock down a vayne just as easily as they can lock down any other adc.

Diamondserpent1 votes

She can still easily 1v1 all these champs with no real effort because of her silver bolts, besides, she has so much safe that as soon as vi ults her, she can just fire her backwards and then spam auto-attacks with item 3153. Vi is then dead.

Asuna37242 votes

Well a good team will funnel onto the carry if a vayne is vi ulted. And with champs like shen with taunts and rumble/kennen with aoe ap alts its not as broken as youre making it seem. tbh it sounds like your team failed to win a teamfight against a vayne of a higher skill level than your team and now you are salty about it. Jinx is more broken imo, have more jinx pentas than vane pentas.

Diamondserpent1 votes

Not really, I've just always thought that Vayne was a bad champ just because she takes so little skill to play and doesn't pay much for her damage in the same way that balanced champions like Velkoz do. Both can do unusual damage types and she should pay for that in mobility.

Mecha MaIphite2 votes

Who the hell said anything about blitzcrank dueling anybody?

Diamondserpent1 votes

Ways to easily fix Vayne .

  • Increase the cooldown on her Q and make the attack that procs off it be a skillshot

or

  • Remove stun component of condemn

or (My personal favorite)

  • Change Silver Bolts from %HP damage to Magic Damage.
Orbv1 votes

How would the first point even be possible?

The second is part of the only skill aspects of Vayne that actually matters. It simply becomes an escape tool and ruins her engage potential. That's like Miss Fortune, without the AoE.

I think you mean % health true damage to % health magic damage. Honestly her ult true damage isn't very high until late game which makes her a hyper carry. Also changing it to magic would make her similar to Kog whose is the same thing. I think making it a flat amount of true damage that scales a bit off of total AD or based off of # of consecutive hits (9, 18, 36, 72, 144 etc) instead of health would be nicer to calm the masses against her. But she is a tank killer. If there are no tanks, her true damage is less meaningful.

With the Meta currently being Poke comps, Vayne isn't that much of an issue. She should be looked into when ADC receive another round of buffs.

Diamondserpent1 votes

Basically, she does her role and then has to activate the ability again to fire a bolt within the time of the ability.

Nimba1 votes

Condemn is a pretty important skill. Feel like positioning with Vayne is probably more important than Jinx/Cait. Both Jinx and Cait have great range and can hide behind their frontline to do damage. With Vayne you have to be basically intertwined with your frontline because you're shorter range and have no skillshot abilities to hit from a distance.

Everyone requires positioning but the adc position is completely dependent on it. Tumble the wrong way and Vi is going to blow you up, condemn missed stunning that Leona? You've now only delayed her setting her team up to kill you instead of escaping. ADC is more important to position because if you get caught out early, you could easily lose the game for your team. If Ekko gets caught out he has an escape on basically every part of his kit, if Vayne gets caught out she can MAYBE tumble condemn away but just tumbling will result in you still being killed, especially if they have point & click cc.

Vaynes balanced status is debatable I guess but to say playing Vayne takes no skill is a bit of a stretch. Every champ in the game requires different levels of important game knowledge. I'm in Silver, I watch Vayne players often as there's usually one on mine, or the other team, the difference between them and the good Vayne players is ridiculous. It's so difficult to play Vayne, get a good amount of dps off and not get destroyed in 2 seconds, she does take skill, everyone takes skill.

Diamondserpent1 votes

No she doesn't take skill and are you gonna argue that champs like MasterYi and Fiora take skill as well? Since all they are doing is auto-attacking, never missing and getting massive buffs from on-hit effects like item 3153 item 3933 item 3074

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

{quoted} Yes, positioning is also important... ON EVERY CHAMPION in the game.

If a tank is out of position, it costs them 1/4 of their HP before they can back off.

If a squishy is out of position, they die.

?

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