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@ricklessabandon: Be careful with Elise -- she might not be as bad off as we've been thinking

Bern··2 votes·911 views

There's a massive winrate disparity for Elise between NA and Korea -- in KR Diamond, Elise is at ~49%, but in NA Diamond, she's at ~42.4%. Likewise, Almost nobody picks Elise in NA challenger or masters, but when they do, they seem to be winning with her -- 68.18% over 22 games for masters NA, ~71% over 7 for Challlenger NA, (and for comparison) 62% over 51 games in KR Challenger (this is for over the past week). If we look at the past month, KR Diamond still has her at 49% over 6,000 games (NA Diamond again lags behind here with ~45% wins over maybe a quarter as many games), while Elise has a 57% winrate over 342 games in KR Masters, a 66% winrate over her only 27 games this month in NA Masters, a 54.7% winrate over 22 in KR Challenger, and 58% over 12 in NA Challenger.

Basically, be careful with Elise changes -- even though the challenger's and master's data are somewhat shaky and unfit for serious statistical use, the winrate and playrate disparity between KR and NA for Diamond imply Elise is probably in a better spot than NA is inclined to think, so overbuffing her could become very scary; likewise, it also implies she may still have good matchups and use cases right now. (I would've also grabbed EUW data for comparison, but op.gg seems... glitched, to say the least, for EUW data. Over 6000% winrate for Poppy. OP.)

That being said, I'm not saying I don't want to see Elise buffs or changes -- I'm just saying that it's probably desirable to be conservative with them. Elise is a touchily balanced champion, and she might swing a bit too hard back into viability if we take the NA Elise data as the baseline for how much help Elise might need.

6 Comments

Erockandroll1 votes

I'm still unsure what Elise does. Back when she was dominating. She built SotAG which had a sustain passive like all spirit stone items. Once SotAG got it's rework with the Quill coat, Elise got an Identity crisis. Like neither the new SotAG or SotSW where good fits for her kit. And that pretty much stuck with the Jungle item changes.

I have not Idea if she's a tank, a mage, a fighter? She does not appear to have many AP ratios to be concerned with.

Bern1 votes

When pros build her (other than Meteos), it tends to be straight tank -- Cinder into FH, though you sometimes see a Rylai's after instead of something like Visage or more AR/HP. Meteos has sometimes done full AP, which isn't actually too bad (80% AP ratio on w, q ratios not amazing but not worth sneezing at either because it's execute dmg) if you're able to keep up your mana from going sour. I've sometimes had success recently with getting magus for early damage and going tank straight after, much like AD bruisers do with warrior. (Basically, imo, Magus does a great job increasing your clear speeds because 80 AP turns into a lot of additional dmg on spider form autos, 20% CDR gives you the extra CC Elise has come to want for cocoon, and, well, Magus is just the most gold-efficient option for Elise; it also lets you take more advantage of her early game presence by building damage items while building towards your jungle item instead of building cinder. You can't really delay your build to pick up guise or sorc's in this meta, so building magus with a runepage with a decent chunk of pen is, imo, the next best thing.)

IMO, her niche right now is early game terror. She can clear both buffs and a camp without backing and still have the HP to gank at L3 (a lot like Nid), so you want to use her to create map pressure as soon as possible before she starts falling off. She's good at using cocoon to set up other pick CC, still, and that does become all she's really good at late, but her early game ganks can still be very strong, and she dives towers as well as ever.

Hupsis1 votes

Elise is a mess. Overall her kit doesn't even reflect her spider theme.

Only thing that reminds me of spider theme is her passive spiderlings... which feel quite underwhelming anyways.

Where are the webs? Where's the venom, intimidating fear of being chased down by a giant spider and lurking around? She's just a basic mage who can transform into a spider that doesn't really do anything interesting.

I hope Riot is willing to give her the spider treatment she deserves even if it means that she would have to get a full (or partial) kit rework. That's just my opinion.

3TWarrior1 votes

here's a question, with elise's assassin kit, can she go AD? I noticed that all she seemed good at in hexakill while she was around then was last hitting anyone who ran away because her Q damage is so high, but otherwise, her range is so pitiful that only her normal form W was viable

you could build her tanky, but that never fit her playstyle

Bern1 votes

Saying that building Elise as a tank doesn't fit her playstyle is like saying that building Lee as a tank doesn't fit his playstyle. The key is that they're both early game aggressors who fall off somewhat. As a result, they both build tanky after early to mitigate their falloff a bit.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Ryze was a similar case from what I had heard.

They didn't heed that warning either

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