make polymorph a skillshot

Ben Sharpio·Nov 3, 2017·32 votes·1,908 views

and lulu's playerbase will all leave to the next brainless enchanter. So how do we solve this? How do we make lulu a more skillful champ?

47 Comments

ModiNov 3, 201713 votes

I would be ok with this one under some conditions:

Cannot be blocked by minions
Range increased

Duration increased

Armor/MR shred added.

Jinzo TorranceNov 3, 20177 votes

Because a 2.25 second stun would need compensation buffs if it had counterplay

Professor WardNov 3, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZzEzFkbG,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-11-03T18:41:02.796+0000)

Because a 2.25 second stun would need compensation buffs if it had counterplay

It barely even touches your movement. If youre losing to polymorph you already lost before that.

Jinzo TorranceNov 3, 20174 votes

I think you're losing because you can't AA and use spells for 2.25 seconds, not because you're slowed.

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 3, 20173 votes

They're no reason to do all of this.

Mainly if the spell can't be blocked by any minion... the duration need to be decreased hard... But again they're no reason to do it.

ModiNov 3, 20171 votes

It currently cannot be blocked by a minion. As skill shot being blocked by a minion, without any compensation would be a significant nerf. I don't feel it needs that much of a nerf.

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 3, 20175 votes

Adding a skillshot would already be nerf. But definitly, she dosn't need compensation. When a pick is op and u nerf it, u don't compense it anywhere.

Her shield and ult would still be strong and gamebreaker.

Zero Skill TankNov 4, 20171 votes

There's a difference between an ordinary nerf, and completely changing part of a kit into worse one. Making polymorph into a skillshot would increase Lulu's skillcap, but also make it unreliable (as in easy to outplay with Playfull, Death mark or Parry) and delayed (because skillshots have travel time). Lulu is strong, but she is not strong enough to warrant this kind of nerf without compensation.

There is also added problem that 'polymorph' is only part of ability. Whimsy can be cast on ally, so if it were to become skillshot, it could be body-blocked by allies, making it much harder to line up than other skillshots.

Teriyaki BukkakeNov 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I would be ok with this one under some conditions:

Cannot be blocked by minions

Range increased

Or

Duration increased

Or

Armor/MR shred added.

I don't think that the last two would be viable considering how strong polymorph already is O_O...

But defs the first two! :D

ModiNov 4, 20171 votes

And I'm not talking a significant increase, thinking 1.15-1.25x the current range.

RyrynounetNov 4, 20171 votes

1.25x is damn huge buddy

DuskDaUmbreonNov 3, 20178 votes

How would it even work as a skillshot? It's not even an ability that makes sense to have as one.

Ben SharpioNov 3, 20176 votes

Good question... Guess we have only 1 option left... DELETE THE CHAMPION

Athenes LuluNov 3, 20172 votes

All allies who stand in it will get a speedboost.

The skillshot "ends" when it hits an enemy champion.

Just an example of how it can work.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 4, 20171 votes

So...a shitty version of the already shitty Ezreal W?

The point of the ability is to temporarily neutralize assassins and divers, who are naturally highly mobile (and therefore hard to hit with skillshots). Is point and click CC annoying? Yeah. But it has a purpose, and that purpose really can't be filled by anything else.

Athenes LuluNov 4, 20171 votes

Huh, it would polymorph the first enemy champion hit.

Guess I wasn't clear enough in the other post, sorry.

La Belle SauvageNov 3, 20177 votes

I always hate the brainless argument (mostly because it's not really an argument). But I'd favor making it a skill shot.

I main Sona, most of her kit is auto targeted.

I'd be in favor of them making all abilities or a majority of them a skill shot.

However, I'm not sure of the feasibility behind such a task or if it would make this game less accessible for new players.

SnakDatSmilesBakNov 3, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZzEzFkbG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-03T13:30:44.372+0000)

I always hate the brainless argument (mostly because it's not really an argument). But I'd favor making it a skill shot.

I main Sona, most of her kit is auto targeted.

I'd be in favor of them making all abilities or a majority of them a skill shot.

However, I'm not sure of the feasibility behind such a task or if it would make this game less accessible for new players.

Making it a skill shot will ruin lulu. At that point it's too easy to block and isn't that useful in bot.

My idea on how to fix her: Take away some of her flexibility and make her choose to be either aggressive or safe and stick with her choice. Or make her options equal and less powerful in general. Just very general stuff cuz I'm no real lulu player, just learned how to play against her.

ShonjlNov 3, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Making it a skill shot will ruin lulu. At that point it's too easy to block and isn't that useful in bot.

My idea on how to fix her: Take away some of her flexibility and make her choose to be either aggressive or safe and stick with her choice. Or make her options equal and less powerful in general. Just very general stuff cuz I'm no real lulu player, just learned how to play against her.

I actually like this idea, its annoying she can be hyper aggressive all laning but still be a pain in the ass when you try to all in her since she can be equally defensive.

Janna and Karma are the closest to her and they both have tradeoffs.

Janna is entirely about peel and being defensive. Janna just doesn't have offensive power. Sure can auto you and slow you sometimes, but for the most part, she is there to annoy the enemies while buffing/healiing/shielding her ADC.

Karma Is very similar except she doesn't have as easy to hit poke since hers doesn't got though minions, both their shields do basically the same thing, and her CC isn't as simple as Lulu just clicking you, she has to hold the tether on you til it procs, all the while being vulnerable to being hit since she has to be close.

Lulu is basically a better version of both of them. She is an outright better version of Karma, and she can be stronger defensively than Janna due to her ult.

I would say the easiest way to fix Lulu is make her the offensive enchanter, make her defensive capabilities weak, weaken her ult and polymorph and give her more power in damage. Pick Janna for defensive pick. Karma as the halfway point. Lulu as the offensive choice.

No reason Janna sacrifices her offensive power for her strength while Lulu doesn't sacrifice anything for hers. And Karma is left to rot since there is really no reason to pick her since Lulu does everything she does but better. Better poke, better shield, better cc, has an actual ult.

RISE Shlack123Nov 3, 20171 votes

You do not want to see AP Lulu become meta again. Trust me...

ShonjlNov 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You do not want to see AP Lulu become meta again. Trust me...

I faced it before, it wasn't as bad as people made it seem. A lot of what people bitch about honestly isn't as nuts as people make it seem. Yasuo for instance, I dislike the guy I won't like, he needs to be changed in my opinion, but he really isn't that much a nightmare. ADCs is everyones favorite thing to bitch about right now but they aren't that nuts really. They still pop easily which really isn't hard to do. A Lulu or Rakan or Janna isn't stopping a Xin Zhao or Zed or Lux or Azir from 1 shotting an ADC in 2 hits. Besides it would be a lot different if they reworked her.

My situation would be they changed her polymorph and ult into something else, or add conditions to them. And suddenly she won't be the same. Hell even something as simple as Lulu has to put Pix on an ally before she can use any abilities on them. If she throws him on an enemy, she can't use her defensive abilities til she moves him.

Jinzo TorranceNov 3, 20177 votes

Nerf the duration

TheHappyReaperzNov 3, 20176 votes

Make it so her abilities rely on another. For example, you can only polymorph an enemy champion, if you hit them with Glitterlance. Stuff like that.

RISE Shlack123Nov 3, 20173 votes

This is a very reasonable idea, actually. The thing that makes Lulu's kit require any type of skill is the target selection and timing. If you poly an enemy champion, then you cannot give your carry a speed boost. If you use her E offensively, then you cannot give your carry a shield. Lulu's skill expression comes from her timing, not her ability to land skillshots. But your idea of having her Q apply a mark that her W procs is the best idea I've seen in this thread so far.

RyrynounetNov 4, 20171 votes

tbh the shield last 6 sec, and guess what if you find a way to get 40% cdr, 40% of 10sec = 6 sec, insanely you can perma shield your adc, thanksfully W in on a 12 sec CD nor doesn't last 7.2 seconds (in case of perma W)

Professor WardNov 3, 20175 votes

The problem with making lulus polymorph a skill shot is that it becomes worthless in scrambled bunched up teamfights. Selecting a target behind another is key to using polymorph

And As a lulu main, polymorph is heavily overrated, and not what makes her kit what it is.

RISE Shlack123Nov 3, 20175 votes

Fellow support main, and I run Lulu from time to time. You probably know this better than me, but what people don't understand about Lulu is that her skill expression is performed through who she targets and when. If you poly too early or poly the wrong target, then your carry is vulnerable to a channeled skill, such as a WW or Kat ult.

Sometimes the threat of an ability is stronger than the ability itself. People miss that when talking about champs like Lulu or Janna, or even Sona and Soraka.

A Dizzy LuluNov 3, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Fellow support main, and I run Lulu from time to time. You probably know this better than me, but what people don't understand about Lulu is that her skill expression is performed through who she targets and when. If you poly too early or poly the wrong target, then your carry is vulnerable to a channeled skill, such as a WW or Kat ult.

Sometimes the threat of an ability is stronger than the ability itself. People miss that when talking about champs like Lulu or Janna, or even Sona and Soraka.

skill experession? all you do is click w on the most fed enemy champion.

RISE Shlack123Nov 4, 20174 votes

When you click W matters more than who you click it on. Same goes for Lulu's ult timing. You over simplify.

PB4UAMENov 4, 20171 votes

You're acting like pressing a button on the right target (out of only 5, and 1 is a support, so really 1 out of 4, and a proper team comp has 1 tank, and usually an off-tank, so you're looking at only 2 damage threats, and one of them will almost always be more fed, so really, really, its petty fucking obvious who you should use it on, just like every other fucking CC in the entire game, I might add. Literally nothing at all unique about Lulu here in any way at all except the name of the CC. If you think of it as Fid pressing Q though, it is entirely the same decision making going on, albeit even easier in Lulu's case, as it doesn't directly counter her main damaging abilities by making the target run out of range.) is in anyway difficult or a measure of skill.

It is not, at all, either of those two things. It should be taken as a base-line that just to use your skill correctly, you'd be able to do that 9 times out of 10 in the midst of a teamfight. Anything less is you misplaying, and being bad, not actually showing any form of skill, let alone unique skill expression for the champion, just because you can actually land your abilities. I mean FFS its a goddamn point and click that you cannot miss and they cannot outplay.

Professor WardNov 4, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZzEzFkbG,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2017-11-03T23:42:04.448+0000)

skill experession? all you do is click w on the most fed enemy champion.

not even close to what you should do as lulu, and in fact, with any decent ad carry, the attack speed/movespeed buff is a far more valuable than her polymorph, especially when chasing.

RavenHuskyNov 4, 20174 votes

No. There needs to be some kind of targeted crowd control in the game in order to counter mobility.

Zero Skill TankNov 4, 20171 votes

100% agreed.

It just doesn't need to be 2.25 seconds.

Alex h8721Nov 3, 20173 votes

Nah, it kinda needs to be point/click for the "enemy cast/ally cast" factor of the spell. Just reduce the duration ~1.25 sec at all ranks

Obscene ElbowsNov 3, 20173 votes

I agree actually. I feel that its range is half the problem, almost all champs with point and click cc that annoying (panth, renekton, etc) at least have to get into melee range to use it. I'm totally fine with it being an easy skillshot to make (fast travel time, ignores minions) as long as there is SOMETHING you can do to dodge it

RISE Shlack123Nov 3, 20173 votes

Point-and-click CC is in the game to help keep the mobility and power creep in check. If you make things like Polymorph or Annie's Tibbers skillshots, then Yasuo and Braum can block them, allowing a Kog'maw, Ekko, Fizz, or insert-annoying-cancer-champ-here 10x more difficult to shut down.

As others have said, if you're losing to Polymorph, your issues extend beyond that one spell. Lulu is a support mage whose skill lies in the timing of her abilities, not the aiming of them.

KloqdqNov 3, 20172 votes

Either take away some of her MANY options or make those options more of a choice, not default values that make the choices meaningless or not really choices.