The Missing Support Option

Elite4Runner··2 votes·2,461 views

I was thinking about support items, and this returned to my mind something I have though about for a while,

There are no AD support items.

Yes, this makes sense because there typically are no (or not many) supports that scale well on AD.

However, that doesn't mean that there necessarily shouldn't/couldn't be AD supports and AD items that support them.

So my initial though for this is, why would you even want an AD support/AD support item?

Champion who invest in attack damage have a natural tenancy to do better at dealing damage with auto attacks. This can of course be useful for harassing, towers, and dealing with things like target-able pets, for example plants ( Zyra ), which is partly where the more recent fad of support Miss Fortune came from. However, they also tend to be good at farming. As a support, this is not commonly something you need to worry about. Normally, you avoid farming and let your ADC do it, unless you have charges of Spoils of War from item 3302.

Well, this actually made me start thinking of a potentially unique way that an AD support could be useful.

What if an AD support item would work sort of like a cross between item 3302 and the opposite of item 3301?

Instead of granting an execute based on charges, the passive would simply make the support's auto attacks more effective against minions, and upon last hitting, the support gains an amount of gold and donates gold and bonus exp to their laning partner.

Notice the last part of the previous sentence because it is very important.

Why?

Well, the typical lane has an ADC in the bottom lane, who is already good with last hitting themselves. It wouldn't make much sense for their support to be good at it as well. Also they already deal a good amount of physical damage, and if the support deals physical damage as well, the enemy lane would be able to easily build armor and negate your damage.

So, instead of having an ADC in the bottom lane with this AD support, why not have an APC (AP Carry, .. that should be obvious, but just in case...)?

They typically lack the ability to cs well in the early game, and they will offer the mixed damage that makes it difficult to build resistances against.

I also mentioned that the AD support item would donate bonus experience to the "laning partner". Most likely the APC will be a mage who swapped roles with the ADC and is now in the bottom lane and has to share exp. Mages are typically more level reliant than ADCs, so the bonus exp will keep them from falling behind.


So, that is the general idea.

Is it great? No, probably not.

I haven't really thought about it in too much detail, so I am quite sure that there would be tons of problems with it, and ways that people could potentially exploit something like this.

Ultimately, the idea was buzzing around in my head and I wanted to toss it out there.

If you like the idea, but see some ways it could be better, please tell me.

If you don't like it and see some major problems, lets hear them.

Either way, glhf

15 Comments

Yrzen7 votes

Rito pls make an AD Support item, itemization for Support Jinx is terrible. Support Varus, Ezreal and Miss Fortune all need to be played AP, (and then Varus is still useless until late game, where he becomes this bizarre hypercarry burst mage. Also buff AP Fortune's damage on E pls) Support Jayce and Kalista need to be played as off-tanks (and aren't that good) and Ashe Support is super garbage. Like seriously, her itemization is probably the worst in the game for any role/champ combination bar none. Jungle Soraka can at least build lifesteal and kind of support her team, Ashe support is an ult bot with no damage that doesn't even slow things with her autos because she has no crit for almost the entire game.

RiotRiot Sotere8 votes

I hear yah. When reading the post I kept thinking, "man, I'd have loved something like this when I was trying to make support Ashe a thing."

Beldair1 votes

Will we be seeing new Support Items soon then? ;)

Elite4Runner1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zye0YW1m,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-28T10:23:35.781+0000)

I hear yah. When reading the post I kept thinking, "man, I'd have loved something like this when I was trying to make support Ashe a thing."

Right, it's definitely a lofty goal and I can certainly see it being very difficult to balance in many situations.

I think it could be fun for it to even lend itself to some role reversals.

Let the meta-ADC live on the support income and feed the meta-mage/support.

It's too bad this dream may never come true ...

[zombie-nunu-tears]

nosafterburn1 votes

i used to love playing pre rework supp ashe. so much utility. kinda the same now but not really ya know?

PureSilvrr2 votes

It is a good idea, the only problem is it validates the people who play Yasuo Zed Illaoi Pantheon that their champion can be a real support and it promotes duo adc. I would love an ad support item and a new ad support, but it would be hard to balace with the above mentioned problem

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

It is a good idea, the only problem is it validates the people who play Yasuo Zed Illaoi Pantheon that their champion can be a real support and it promotes duo adc. I would love an ad support item and a new ad support, but it would be hard to balace with the above mentioned problem

Good point. My theory on that is that the item itself would most likely not offer very much AD on it's own but the passive would simply work with the limited amount of AD that the champion would be able to afford in order to make them effective at farming and donating a majority of the gold to their laning partner.

If they were to instead go straight for full AD items, they would actually be more effective at dealing damage and farming for themselves.

Beldair1 votes

I happen to be one of those people that play Illaoi Support.

And most Ill supports I fight usually build her as a tank. She is a juggernaut after all, so she will still do some damage when built full tank.

But it is an understanding concern.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

I love illaoi support. her pull is awesome. Doesn't put you as a support in danger the same way naut or thresh hook does and doesn't potentially put you as the adc in danger the same way a blitz hook could, but still has a similar zoning threat if the pull is off CD.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

So adcs that can't farm will gain even more gold... I've see bronze adcs that have farm only because ther supp is with item 3302

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

So adcs that can't farm will gain even more gold... I've see bronze adcs that have farm only because ther supp is with item 3302

Theoretically? .. I mean, as I said in the post an ADC wouldn't (or shouldn't) really need an AD support because they should be able to farm for themselves.

I left the amount of gold to each support and partner open to interpretation. It may be a little strange to say that the carry would ultimately end up getting less gold than they would normally, but they aren't the one farming afterall, so maybe that would be right.

My thought on this is really more meant to make AD support and APC a more common combination though.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

{quoted}

Theoretically? .. I mean, as I said in the post an ADC wouldn't (or shouldn't) really need an AD support because they should be able to farm for themselves.

I left the amount of gold to each support and partner open to interpretation. It may be a little strange to say that the carry would ultimately end up getting less gold than they would normally, but they aren't the one farming afterall, so maybe that would be right.

My thought on this is really more meant to make AD support and APC a more common combination though.

You can go now bot with APC and your problem is not your support or your farm, but your mana pool and cooldowns.

Decrit1 votes

Jokes and memes aside, it does not because it is counterintuitive.

AD carries scale late game and are geared toward having high damage and low utility, and if they have utility that utility is usually geared toward dealing damage ( like skillshots ). You can make an AD item that somehow translates this damage in utility with some wonky passive but then there is a whole lot of champions that do not need to scale as hard as AD carries, which are the fighters like divers and skirmishers, that would most probably overshadow them unless range gets greatly valued by the ad support.

Also it goes against one of the precepts of LoL, where you fight a champion and not a combination of Champion and Items. Doing such item would mean to give cc or some other kind of utility to champions designed to have none, and items as posed by Riot should only enforce what a champion already does and not give them too much external power. Rilay' s Crystal Scepter and Deathfire Grasp are examples of this, and while i think it is limitating it is also fitting because in a game with 130+ champions why the hell pick an adc as support unless there is some specific sinergy? ( hello mf)

They could do something for the latter case, but it would be an underdog item at best and a broken hell balancing problem at worst.

chipndip11 votes

We hardly have ap support items, even. All we really have is heal/shield and defenses.

Zok721 votes

Right now the "best" tools for ad supports are bruiser items with damage-based utility. Cleaver, Frozen Mallet, and RFC (a marksman item but still usable on ranged AD supports) kind of work on AD supports. If an AD support was added to the game I think the best way to enable their itemization would be with items that carry these kinds of passive tools (tower damage or armor shred) but with only one marksman stat instead of multiple stats so an AD support can pick one up without it ever being optimal on marksmen. Perhaps something that builds out of Caulfield's Warhammer and kindlegem (or ruby crystal or somesuch) which causes the champion to do double physical damage to towers but doesn't have hugely increased physical damage otherwise?

Additionally, a dedicated support item would help AD supports succeed. One option I can think of that rewards consistent auto-attacking is AD + Gold generation + Passive: attacking a minion or enemy marks it, if it is attacked by an ally in x seconds they deal y bonus damage and you get z gold (on a w second cooldown, also turned off if you last hit). The attack trigger works with a number of existing supports and physical damage dealers (ashe, MF, braum, and gnar just to name a few). The fully upgraded form could have an active ability to mark a target for 5 seconds increasing all damage they take from enemies. The reliance on allies for damage and gold would allow AD champions to function in bottom lane (like support brand or annie) while preventing the role from just becoming a safer way of choosing a marksman. Additionally, marking out a single enemy carves a niche of target softening for physical damage supports which works with black cleaver and helps establish what kind of tools physical supports should have.

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