so essentially you nerfed Kog'Maw over all since revert

NodirjonSattarov··14 votes·2,050 views

V6.19 Stats Base attack speed increased to 0.665 from 0.625. Attack speed growth reduced to 2.65% from 3.5%. Caustic Spittle Caustic Spittle NEW PASSIVE: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35% bonus attack speed. Bio-Arcane Barrage Bio-Arcane Barrage REMOVED: Bonus attack speed, maximum attack speed and reduced cast time. REMOVED: Basic attacks dealing 55% AD to non-minions. REMOVED: Base bonus magic damage reduced to 0 from 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20. Target's maximum health ratio increased to 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6% of target's maximum health from 2% of target's maximum health at all ranks. Target's maximum health AP ratio increased to 1% per 100 AP from 0.75% per 100 AP. Bonus range increased to 130 / 150 / 170 / 190 / 210 from 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 / 210. Cooldown increased to 17 seconds at all ranks from 13 / 11.5 / 10 / 8.5 / 7. Duration increased to 8 seconds from 6. NEW EFFECT: Cooldown now starts on-cast instead of at the end of buff duration.

He was OP, I admit that. He deserved the revert even though I really enjoyed playing 5AS Kog'Maw.

V6.21 Living Artillery Living Artillery Initial and stacking mana cost reduced to 40 from 50. Maximum mana cost reduced to 400 from 500. Increased cost debuff duration reduced to 8 seconds from 10. Base damage increased to 100 / 140 / 180 from 70 / 110 / 150. NEW EFFECT: Deals 0.83% increased damage for every 1% of target's missing health, up to 50% bonus damage (versus targets above 40% of their maximum health). Maximum damage implemented at 150 / 210 / 270 + 97.5% bonus AD + 37.5% AP. Threshold to deal double damage reduced to below 40% health from below 50% health. Target's below the above threshold take double damage instead of the previous modifier. Base double damage increased to 200 / 280 / 360 from 140 / 220 / 300. REMOVED: Triple damage below 25% health, previously 240 / 330 / 540 (+ 195% bonus AD) (+ 75% AP).

After his revert people began playing AP Kog'Maw, I stuck to playing AD Kog'Maw because I had a feeling that with increase in popularity Riot Meddler would throw a fit about the unhealthy-ness of AP Kog'Maw. The prophecy was true and they did decide to nerf him. What we have now is a flaccid poke and an unreliable execute as his R. Thanks for the lower mana cost/CD I guess.

V6.24 Bio-Arcane Barrage Bio-Arcane Barrage Maximum health bonus damage increased to 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7% from 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6%. Void Ooze Void Ooze Base damage reduced to 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240 from 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260. AP ratio reduced to 50% AP from 70% AP.

AP Kog'Maw was nerfed even more due to popularity. To force Kog'Maw into the botlane they buffed his W to encourage more people to play AD Kog'Maw. The incentive worked.

Kog'Maw Bio-Arcane Barrage (W) bonus magic damage lowered from 3/4/5/6/7% to 3/3.5/4/4.5/5%

Nerf without context, thanks Meddler. It goes to show that when enough people cry about Kog'Maw or any champion on the boards they will get nerfs that the community deems necessary. Talk about A-1 decision making. "But Kog'Maw out scales every ADC with a Recurve Bow hehe xd", so the decision is to nerf him? Why not buff early game champions like Lucian, Draven, and Jhin who are sitting at terribly low win rates to make Kog'Maw struggle to scale?

Statistics wise in NA Challenger Kog'Maw's win rate isn't as inflated as people make it. With double Kog'Maw's games Tristana has a win rate of 4% higher. With 100 more games, Xayah has a 6% higher winrate.

https://gyazo.com/111e93a72b933720d844eeaab6e90045

Sorry if the picture is too small.

18 Comments

YuGiHo5 votes

first people complain damage is too high and when riot nerfs the damage you want to complain . i would get complaining if they nerfed anything about him than the damage but thats all they touched.

Rebonack4 votes

{quoted}

first people complain damage is too high and when riot nerfs the damage you want to complain . i would get complaining if they nerfed anything about him than the damage but thats all they touched.

Problem is, damage is all Koggers brings to the table.

Until he gets a VGU where he's given a niche that isn't do all the damage, his balance state is always going to be knife-edge.

YuGiHo4 votes

Isnt the niche of every marksman/adc to deal damage? what defines them as champions is how they do it. following that logic they can alter his numbers as much as they want but kog will still play the same just with varying effect.

Lios Ashenblade7 votes

Caitlyn Do lots of damage in a hat Vayne Do lots of damage in sunglasses Twitch Do lots of Damage in the shadows Xayah Do lots of damage in a committed relationship Draven Do lots of Damage and say Draven a lot

all adc already have a niche

YuGiHo3 votes

Xayah Do lots of damage in a committed relationship

ROTFL

Teridax681 votes

I agree in part with this that Kog's main contributions aren't especially diverse relative to most marksmen, though I do think him being able to pair up heavy persistent damage with artillery-level range is an asset no other champion possesses (not even snipers like Cait or Jhin have access to the same constant range as Kog's ult). I feel the two main problems with his balance is that Riot has downplayed his contribution as an artillery champion, mainly by nerfing his ult and focusing his power on his W (which is still long-ranged, though not really artillery-level), but also that his most prominent and consistent source of power is unavoidable damage. In an extreme reversal where Kog's W became crap and his ult became much stronger, all else held equal his balance would likely be less brittle, because his damage would then have a chance of missing or being dodged, unlike his autoattacks, and he'd stand out in a manner that didn't compete with most other marksmen. Kog reliably abusing on-hit items is also why his rework got partially reverted, as it was simply impossible to balance him around being guaranteed to double the amount of on-hit power champions are typically allowed to have. Because of this, I think it would help to make Kog's power less unavoidable, whether it be by focusing more of his power on his ult, changing his W to have more counterplay, or both.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

I agree in part with this that Kog's main contributions aren't especially diverse relative to most marksmen, though I do think him being able to pair up heavy persistent damage with artillery-level range is an asset no other champion possesses (not even snipers like Cait or Jhin have access to the same constant range as Kog's ult). I feel the two main problems with his balance is that Riot has downplayed his contribution as an artillery champion, mainly by nerfing his ult and focusing his power on his W (which is still long-ranged, though not really artillery-level), but also that his most prominent and consistent source of power is unavoidable damage. In an extreme reversal where Kog's W became crap and his ult became much stronger, all else held equal his balance would likely be less brittle, because his damage would then have a chance of missing or being dodged, unlike his autoattacks, and he'd stand out in a manner that didn't compete with most other marksmen. Kog reliably abusing on-hit items is also why his rework got partially reverted, as it was simply impossible to balance him around being guaranteed to double the amount of on-hit power champions are typically allowed to have. Because of this, I think it would help to make Kog's power less unavoidable, whether it be by focusing more of his power on his ult, changing his W to have more counterplay, or both.

More or less, yeah.

I don't think Riot is going to focus Kog on his artillery gameplay, whether AP or AD, though. They've made it abundantly clear that they absolutely despise AP Kog.

And I would agree that it would be great if Riot were to improve other aspects of his kit (I personally favor focus on his %Resist shred) then reducing the focus on his 'Press W to Win' gameplay would be well justified. Alternatively, I think it would be neat to bump up the AP ratio on his W a bit. That would allow Kog to function more or less as an AP Marksmen while still making pure OnHit builds (wit's, Bork, ect) notably weaker.

NodirjonSattarov2 votes

If you look at my posts, most of which are heavily downvoted, I've only been defending Kog in any scenario.

Kaìju3 votes

Lane bullies are pretty bad right now. I agree, even though Kog is frustrating sometimes he shouldn't be nerfed as hard as he is without getting some kind of compensation buff.

NodirjonSattarov5 votes

Buffing Jhin, Draven, and Lucian would solve the Kog'Maw early game problem. The nerf isn't even targeting his early game which is what everyone is complaining about. Make it harder for Kog'Maw to scale, but let him scale since that what he was born to do. If you hit 40min and haven't won yet vs a Kog'Maw, then you really messed up in the early game.

Blåbæret1 votes

No ADC should really get buffed at this point. Even Riot has admitted that there's an ADC problem in this game. The right way to go about it is nerfing the strong ones and see where that leaves us. This game doesn't need more damage by buffing champs that don't need it because of one overpowered champion. Such a change would make no sense.

Also, a champ's sole counterplay shouldn't be to beat a champion in x amount of time. That's just retarded.

Colton1471 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kogfather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZtuyGLn6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T04:55:28.453+0000)

Buffing Jhin, Draven, and Lucian would solve the Kog'Maw early game problem. The nerf isn't even targeting his early game which is what everyone is complaining about. Make it harder for Kog'Maw to scale, but let him scale since that what he was born to do. If you hit 40min and haven't won yet vs a Kog'Maw, then you really messed up in the early game.

Caitlyn item 3070

The Ecdysiast3 votes

Wrong patch to complain about Kog'maw nerfs, when he's sitting at the top.

NodirjonSattarov2 votes

Other ADCs such as Tristana, Xayah, and Vayne are doing much better in higher elo statistically.

NubNoobNewbie1 votes

Pretty sure people are frustrated about kog's early spike damage. Since rage blade +1 gives insane damage, it would be reasonable to nerf him. However, if the problem lies in the early game, why nerf his overall effectiveness? Wouldnt pushing his spikes back sort out this conflict? 2% damage nerf is huge compared to other changes. What is the point of making unique heroes if all of them will eventually end up the same? Revert the nerf, change his base stats and stat growth (or just make rage blade and wits end even more expensive... there needs to be a look into the on-hit items in general tbh). It'd be cool if kog just get a complete revamp tho, since his lore and abilities don't make much sense..

Blåbæret1 votes

Lmao, his damage was/is absurd and needed nerfs. You'll get no sympathy here.

Teridax681 votes

A few things:

  • League of Legends is not in the same state now as it was when Kog'Maw was reworked. Kog'Maw's balance has shifted over time due to systemic changes, so adjusting his power accordingly is both justified and necessary.
  • Kog'Maw currently has a win rate of over 52.5% and a pick rate of over 20%, when for the longest time his prior low success rates and popularity were attributed to him being a niche champion who needed a very specific and well-organized team comp to work. If he is in this state, he is way too strong. Even in Challenger, where other marksmen have absurdly high win and pick rates, a >55% win rate is still nuts. No matter how you put it, Kog'Maw's upcoming nerf is entirely warranted, and the one nerf he is receiving is pretty conservative relative to the much larger knockdowns other champions have received in the past for similarly stepping out of line.
  • Powercreeping underperforming marksmen purely to keep up with Kog'Maw would be likely to have terrible consequences in the future, as it has already had now. The problem with marksmen right now isn't that champions like Lucian or Jhin are too weak, but that the marksmen they are faced up against, such as Kog'Maw, are far too strong, and for everyone in the game. Marksmen should not be balanced purely around other marksmen, because more champions besides marksmen exist in the game, and marksmen are a class are far from weak right now. If the issue is that Kog scales too quickly and too early, then that is what needs to be addressed directly, rather than everything else in the game besides Kog.

Beyond Kog'Maw's balance, though, I sympathize with the fact that he doesn't feel as fun to play or as diverse as he should be. AD Kog may be too strong, but AP Kog has been forgotten, to the point where his AP mid laner playstyle no longer even registers on most stat sites like op.gg or champion.gg: AP Kog'Maw is effectively RIP to a degree comparable to Volibear, and that's not fair for all of the players who enjoyed his mid laner playstyle. Even AD Kog is mostly relegated to sitting down and right-clicking, to the complete detriment of his much more interesting ultimate. His power is completely concentrated around his autoattack steroid, which is responsible not only for making him too strong right now, but also for making him feel less interesting all around than he deserves to be. While attack-based artillery should definitely be one of Kog's contributions, it should not be his only contribution, particularly when he has access to more interactive artillery on his ult, and team-beneficial utility and CC on his Q and E respectively. Because of this, while I do think Kog'Maw deserves a nerf to his AS/AD playstyle, I would also like power shifts to his kit that would make his AP playstyle viable, while also putting more emphasis on the entirety of his kit, rather than just one ability.

Daddy Ants1 votes

This nerf is a slap on the wrist compared to what Vayne got.

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