Full Armor Pen Vs. Full Ad Vs Hybrid Runes

Evalerian·12/3/2014, 9:14:44 PM·2 votes·3,945 views

I would really like to settle the debate between Full Armor Pen Vs. Full Ad Vs Hybrid Runes (Armor pen marks/Ad Quints), and which setup is better.

Does anyone 100% know the math behind which is better on champions like Zed, Talon, Quinn, etc?

When does Armor Pen outsell flat AD? Is running full armor pen worth waiting for it to outscale? Is running a hybrid build better overall?

Does the champion matter? For example, zed might benefit from flat AD more than Talon would, etc.

Thoughts?

5 Comments

redniwediS12/3/2014, 10:20:18 PM1 votes

I looked up stuff on this exact topic a while back, it was a lot of opinions going one way or the other. The only way to truly figure out which is best for your champion picks and play style is to try them both out.

It's not the cheapest way to get your answer, but it's the only 100% answer you'll find.

Konidias12/4/2014, 7:39:50 PM1 votes

I find full armor pen runes on Quinn is the best way to go. It helps a lot more early game, and it's beneficial against every enemy. Even squshies start with around 20 armor... You can slightly over 19 armor pen from runes, so you are effectively removing some champs starting armor.

You want to make sure to follow through with more armor pen items like Last Whisper or Black Cleaver.

Drunk Rummate12/4/2014, 7:46:14 PM1 votes

Unfortunately not all champs are flexible in this regard (see note at bottom), but generally speaking:

flat armor pen against low armor targets % armor pen against high armor targets crit against high hp targets

example: low armor, high HP - > flat pen + crit (IE + ghostblade) high armor, medium or low HP -> stack armor pen (cleaver + last whisper) high armor, high HP -> fuck that guy, attack someone else

Stuff to keep in mind - > Flat AD is often better than pen if you can't afford to build many damage items LeeSin RenektonJarvanIV Penetration mixed with AD is best on champions that can build full squishy Zed Riven

Early on most people rely on their base stats defensively. The exception would be cloth armor starts. Flat penetration is really good against champs until they start to build armor. Once you have a chain vest or more in armor, last whisper becomes extremely efficient. Late game almost every champ will have a chain vest worth of armor in addition to their base stats if there is a reasonable amount of AD on the enemy team, this is why last whisper is almost always considered a core item that should be built 3rd or 4th on damage carries, and it's why brutalizer items are generally rushed as a first or second item.

If two or more champions are building a lot of armor (100+), consider turning your brutalizer into a black cleaver. Otherwise, a ghostblade is a more efficient buy due to the active and additional flat penetration versus squishier targets.

AL0009/7/2015, 1:48:52 AM1 votes

easy...

first check....

champion with heavily AA...

  • pure ad? strong early? get ad runes

  • pure ad? weak early? get armor pen runes

  • pure ap? strong early? get ap runes

  • pure ap? weak early? get ap pen runes


if no then dont get armor or mage pen.... see next


second check...

champion with sheen... triforce, lich bane, rug or igb....

  • ap during AA? strong early-mid? get hybrid rune.... ( elise, jax, kay, teemo, ekko, etc)
  • ap during AA? weak early? dont get hybrid runes... get magic pen runes...

usually pure ad + sheen option with armor pen is not always good... because of sheen rely on ad as AA... higher ad = higher damage... more damage than armor pen...

ap is different because usually mage has low ap ratio so hyybrid or magic pen is better...

make a sense?