No, thornmail doesn't need grievous wounds.

kasfas·Sep 6, 2016·4 votes·703 views

A tanks job is to either disrupt the backline or peel for carries, NOT to kill them. And juggernauts have enough damage to kill adcs through their lifesteal anyways.

Thorn mail DOES need a rework though, it's 100 armour isn't really good in most scenarios.

What it should have is the following:

300 hp 75 armour Unique passive: deals damage equal to x (+ 15% of incoming damage) to attackers as magic damage.

This way armour stacking doesn't increase the effectiveness of the item, and allows it to be a better item on its own. Also doesn't allow niche cases where it's much better on some champions than others.

6 Comments

HyperiönSep 6, 20162 votes

No, it should have grievous wounds. ADCs have so much lifesteal nowadays its crazy. Not to mention you get shredded in no time by arm pen builds...

67chromeSep 6, 20161 votes

No, it should have grievous wounds.

It should not.

If a champion manages to maintain distance, kite like a boss, avoid all the incoming skillshots, maintain solid positioning, and hammer away at their opponent by packing enough damage to kill them: they shouldn't loose because thornmail.

Rewarding AFK plays and doing essentially nothing with an item purchase that hard-counters a certain play style is terrible game-design, which is essentially what GW thornmail would accomplish.

ATM Thornmail is already a pretty solid guarantee you'r opponent's life-steal is going to be 100% useless if they attack you.

Beyond that: it's worth pointing out Thornmail is essentially a cheaper item 3068 that's slightly more effective against the right opponents, and Thornmail's overall intention is in a pretty similar place to the cape. It's not supposed to be a miracle item that hard-counters an 11,000 gold build on a carry, just a defensive item that provides a nice chunk of defense and a smattering of damage.

masterdragon481Sep 6, 20161 votes

I agree, but I would like to see grevious wounds on more than a conditionally built adc item. There are numerous top lane matchups where it would be useful (looking at you vlad/fio) and as it stands its just impossible to build (800 gold isn't cheap for an item that may not actually help your champions kit a lot and is dead slot item that you have to sell later and hope your team is smart enough to cover).

Not that it would help top lane, but I would even like to see it as a support item (some kind of bind to a champion, and even on activation apply grevious wounds, etc) so that supports can get an effect that really matters into the game.

TTK DreadnoughtSep 6, 20161 votes

What? 800 gold is super cheap for an item that negates/nerfs almost an entire class of champions and then some.

TTK DreadnoughtSep 6, 20161 votes

If a champion manages to maintain proximity, tank like a boss, block all the incoming skillshots, maintain solid positioning, and hammer away at their opponent by packing enough crowd control to kill them: they shouldn't loose because last whisper.

Rewarding AFK plays and doing essentially nothing with an item purchase that hard-counters a certain play style is terrible game-design, which is essentially what Last Whisper/Lord Dominiks/Mortal Reminder would accomplish.

ATM Last Whisper is already a pretty solid guarantee you're opponent's armor is going to be 100% useless if they attack you.

It's not supposed to be a miracle item that hard-counters an 11,000 gold build on a tank, just a offensive item that provides a nice chunk of damage and a smattering of penetration.

MagicFlyingLlamaSep 6, 20161 votes

The whole point of it having armor stacking was to stop it being the one-trick-pony item for facerolling ADCs, it actually required tank investment, in health and armor.

With old thornmail, i have 1v1ed a 20-something-kill twitch with shyvana, after DCing for the first 10 minutes of the game. He was displeased, thornmail was broken.