Some Thoughts on Support - Riot Meddler

ProfDrDeath··26 votes·2,168 views
Some thoughts on Support

The linked post is a lengthy one by Meddler on the current and prospective states of support.

Current State of Supports

At present support is a position that significantly fewer players want to play than other roles. That’s unfortunate because it results in:

  • Long matchmaking queues (not enough support players to go around).
  • Players having to play a role they’d prefer not to (getting autofilled to support to partially address the above problem).
  • Players having to play a role more often than they’d prefer (if they want to queue as support secondary or fill).

We’d therefore like to make support attractive to more players, without taking away what makes it appealing to existing support players. That’s something we’re planning to put quite a bit of work into in 2017 after we’ve got the pre-season changes generally polished and balanced.

There are a range of things we want to address, or at least investigate. Those include:

  • Gold income as support
    • Should it be closer to, or matching, the income of other roles to give support players more agency?
    • Assuming it should what are the best ways to give that extra income to supports without creating problems in other roles or incentivizing weird behavior?
  • Recognition of success as support
    • Damage dealers get great celebrations of their skilled play via things like killing sprees/multi-kills, good KDAs/CS numbers, tracking of damage dealt etc. Support achievements by contrast can be much lower visibility and satisfaction (clutch saves for example aren’t highlighted well, even if they’re as impressive a piece of play as a well executed multi-kill).
  • Itemization
    • Are support items sufficiently compelling or does power progression as a support often feel worse than other roles?
    • Is Sightstone in the right place as a mandatory 800g first buy? Are there other adjustments to the vision game that would be good both for the >experience of playing support and the game in general?
  • Pre-Game
    • Are supports properly served by pre-game choices (runes/masteries/summoner spells) in terms of their effectiveness?
    • Are those choices sufficiently satisfying to use?
  • Laning patterns
    • Many champions played as supports have really engaging gameplay in lane based off their positioning, harass, wave pushing, vision play etc. Some supports, or at least some supports in certain lane match ups, can end up having to play really passively though. How can we improve that?
  • Etc

Since there is no post in Dev Corner on this, I figured there should be a thread to discuss these concepts here on G&B.

34 Comments

Cryo0014 votes

Experience gain: A lot of the times as a support I fall behind in levels, and this is partly because its my fault (you melt instantly when playing squishy supports) and then due to missing out on experience when ever you go to ward/deward. Add this to the fact that a lot of the times a support dies trying to save other members of the team, making him/her miss out on experience again.

Gold income as a support: This is completely fine in my opinion. In games where I do not die very often or my team is doing just fine, I do not tend to fall behind on items.

Itemization: The two new support items are amazing, hats off to Riot for that. One thing that I would like to add is that PLEASE let the pink ward have its own slot. Late game this becomes a huge problem, when you cannot pink or have to stay 5 items just so that you have space for the pink ward.

Pre-game: Support runes from what I've seen are just MR and Armour runes, along with the occasional AP and AD. The bonus gold and exp runes barely amount to anything, so there is no point in using them. Masteries are fine, but I'd prefer that you guys add something new. Also, just another thing, if possible can you'll shift Greenfather's Gift to another tier so that I can take that and bandit ? or will that be too strong ?

Laning experience: Completely fine as well, sometimes I want to play an all in support, sometimes I want to play a passive support. I'm glad I have both the options.

Recognition: This is the main reason why no one wants to play support. You can ward/deward all you want but if your team fails to take advantage of that and loses, its because you didn't ward the way the Top/Mid/Jungler or (usually)ADC wanted. You are 0/6/35 ? all the team sees is the 0/6 and flames you for feeding. You landed all your skillshots and peeled for an eternity for your team ? doesn't matter, the ADC who got the penta gets the credit. (I know that proper positioning as an ADC is no easy task, but you get what I mean). In lane is the worst. The ADC expects you to have a hidden skill that basically gives them a permanent kayle ult + olaf ult. If the ADC dies by overextending, its the support's fault. If the support dies by saving the ADC, again its the supports fault.

I know that the last reason is the community's issue, not the game design, but nonetheless its a huge factor that turns off people from playing support.

Also, this is more of a personal issue, but please riot, STOP FORCING SUPPORT CHAMPIONS TO BE PLAYABLE ONLY AS SUPPORTS.

Seize The Kills1 votes

I really miss the mastery that gave you bonus XP when you were near someone higher level then you. Was sad not to see it return this pre-season, it alleviated much the support levels issues.

ProfDrDeath6 votes

My personal thoughts:

  • Gold income: Think that gold income is, overall, ok for supports, especially given the price range of the new items. If supports just deserve a little more gold, might it be possible to buff Bandit's gold-per-minion up a bit? What's more of a problem is how easy it is to fall behind in experience as a support, by just doing your job, and since you have no farming skills nor specialised XP equipment, there is often no good way to catch back up. Some supports really suffer from this.

  • Recognition of success: This is a big factor. Support's contribution to the team, while vital, tends to be rather invisible in the game. Maybe it would be possible to add a Wards placed/scouted/killed to the scoreboard? Other than that, it would be cool to see after-game stats like: Damage shielded (since each shield has a specific source, also interesting for some tanks), seconds of CC applied, damage of allied champions buffed (with things like Ardent Censer or Janna's shield), active vision duration provided (time spend by enemy champion in view of non-line-of-sight vision effects like wards)

  • Itemization: To get a real grip on this might take a while with all the new items. One preliminary issue for tank supports, though, is the relative scarcity of CdR in the tank support items. Sightstone as a first buy is, well, your necessary core item. Nothing you can buy provides more value to the team, full stop. A way to change that would maybe, just maybe, be to make Sightstone into a free item if you already bought a support gold generation item, but one that does not give any stats at first and only two wards. With Ruby Crystal, you'd then upgrade it to the T2 Sightstone (600 gold or so), which would be like current Sightstone, and just go on from there as it is now. What would also be cool would be to be able to charge a Sightstone (or maybe Trinket?) with a Control Ward (maybe at increased cost, like 100 g). This would make the first use of the SS/Trinket place a CW and allow supports to go for full builds without sacrificing Vision Control.

  • Laning patterns: Sometimes, having to be passive in lane is ok. Not everything needs to be non-stop action. What is less ok is having a lane where it feels like everything you do is pointless, like playing versus old (and sometimes current, too) Soraka.

  • Pre-game Choices: Personally, I feel like there is enough choice in runes to satisfy supports and tune them to your style. Masteries are ok as well, given the recent introductions that make you have real choices with Fresh Blood vs Expose Weakness, Greenfather's vs Bandit, Fearless vs Insight and even Explorer vs Tough Skin (I dislike Siege Commander). The only tier that does not really feel good to choose from is the second 1-point row of Ferocity - only damage increases there, but you tend to not do too much of that as a support (save for Zyra and Brand). Summoner Spells are mostly the decision between Ignite and Exhaust - which is really more of a choice than three other roles have (Top laners almost always run TP (and f### up bot with it), Junglers need Smite. and ADCs run Heal).

Dehitay4 votes

{quoted}

Personally, I feel like there is enough choice in runes to satisfy supports and tune them to your style.

There are 2 runes designed for supports: bonus experience and gold per 10 seconds. Both of them are completely inferior to standard runes.

VirusSixZero3 votes

I especially like the idea of getting recognized for seconds of CC applied. You can land every Morgana stun, or crucial Nami bubble and the assassins still act like it was their gap closer that secured the kill.

I'd also like to see supports get XP for revealing a ward. Often I'll use sweeper, and my adc won't even let me have the gold/xp from finding the ward. Using the sweeper in the right place at the right time should feel rewarding, and sometimes it's strategically more important to blind the ward than actually kill it. If an assassin wants to pass a known ward, you can disable it while he passes and keep it there to avoid drawing further attention to the route.

Supports need to scale better with actions related to their role via xp incentives. Getting xp for every X seconds of cc applied, xp for ever X number of wards placed, revealing wards, shielding dmg, body blocking skillshots (or Caitlyn's ultimate) are all things supports could potentially see rewards for performing. Supports do a lot in game that does not appear on any stat summary, and is essentially unrecognized 'free labor' that garners zero gold and zero xp.

Comrad Black5 votes

I started league as a support and moved away to top/mid. Just to speak to why I don't play the position any more:

  • There's an imbalance of power between the impact of the support and the ADC. If the support's terrible, the ADC can more or less grit their teeth and if not carry, get through the lane phase without a significant disadvantage in most cases. Conversely, if your ADC's awful, the support gets absolutely fucked. Their already slim gold income suffers, placing vision becomes more dangerous, etc. This ranges from being only slightly true with AP mage supports that can try to lean into their damage and carry the game, to being painfully true for supports like Janna.

  • I actually love playing supportively, but I don't like being the defacto boring-shit mule for my team. Previously this included being forced to buy locket, but now I basically just resent being forced to spend 800-1600 gold on vision. I don't mind being in charge of placing vision, but I hate delaying interesting/fun items because of it. Because of that my favourite position/style is supportive top laners like Shen.

  • Support favours AP mages quite a lot in solo queue. A support Brand can hard carry a match, a Braum can't. Since I favour tank supports, blind picking a Braum feels like an easy way to put yourself at a disadvantage. To be clear: I'm aware Braum's OP in higher level play, but having to support a 0/3 silver Vayne with him (especially if you're facing like Jhin + Vel'Koz) just feels so bad.

  • You're a defacto punching bag for the team. ADC's are mostly guilty of bullying support, but in general support and jungle are the positions I perceive as the most likely to be unfairly harassed, and it's a big reason I don't even attempt to work past my first three points (or try to learn jungle).

So yeah, for me it's a mix of all the reasons they seem to think it is. If i could actually carry the game as support Leona, even just to the degree I can carry it as top Leona, I'd play support way more.

Teridax685 votes

This is a good starting point for discussion, and thank you for posting this. My thoughts on the questions:


#Should support gold income match that of other roles? Yes, absolutely, at the very least. As long as supports are forced to operate under sub-par gold income, they will not have the freedom of itemization choices that was promised since Preseason 4, and they will not feel as good with itemization as every other class/role.


#How to avoid problems with other roles and perverse incentives? I think the best way to buff support gold income should be through changes to the game's systems, and not through specific items. Put too much gold income on a single item, and solo laners will risk picking them for that advantage, meaning you'd have to put even stricter restrictions on them. However, if gold from takedowns were rebalanced in favor of assists, and if duo lanes had proper gold/exp sharing, it would benefit supports first and foremost. If duo lanes end up migrating mid or top, then the game also needs mechanics in place to help people outnumbered in lane, which is already a terrible experience right now.


#How to recognize support achievements? As with takedown gold, takedown announcements should probably also be equalized. It's currently possible for people to assist in killing all five members of the enemy team, yet get no recognition for it from the announcer. Additionally, perhaps there should be additional announcer lines in the case of a clutch save, should the game be able to detect those occasions.


#Are support items sufficiently compelling or does power progression as a support often feel worse than other roles? No, support items are not sufficiently compelling, and power progression as a support feels worse than for other roles, because most support items offer no substantial amount of personal power. "Personal power" does not mean straight-up damage or tankiness, and in the case of supports it should mean powering up their innate utility, yet itemization caters very little to that. To this day, many support items still treat supports like extra inventory slots for other players, especially the marksman, with Mikael's Crucible as a chief example of this with its pseudo-Mercurial Scimitar active. Big-ticket support actives are wonderful, but support items should also offer stats that are legitimately attractive to them, instead of excessive regen/CDR and mediocre amounts of health/resists.


#Is Sightstone in the right place as a mandatory 800g first buy? Are there other adjustments to the vision game that would be good both for the experience of playing support and the game in general?

No, Sightstone is not a fun purchase, and by all rights it should not exist at this point, nor should its upgrades. As long as it remains, the support will still remain the team's designated ward slave, and now that sight wards are restricted to trinkets, removing Sightstone would not force supports to spend gold and inventory slots on them. Other adjustments to the vision game that would help supports would likely involve making ward removal more organic and accessible to everyone, without having to resort to an additional ward type or trinket.


#Are supports properly served by pre-game choices (runes/masteries/summoner spells) in terms of their effectiveness? At this point, yeah, I feel masteries do cater to all different support types fairly well, and both the Cunning and Resolve trees have interesting options for both tanky supports and enchanters. Runes slightly less so, since the best option for supports is usually some mix of tankiness and AP, but runes generally don't do a great job of feeling interesting to use anyway. Summoner spells are mostly fine, and even if some spells could use some updating in general, e.g. Cleanse, Ghost, etc., the current Flash + Exhaust combo feels pretty useful.


#Some supports, or at least some supports in certain lane match ups, can end up having to play really passively though. How can we improve that? Part of this I feel comes from the design of some supports. Soraka, Janna and sometimes even Lulu are often incentivized by their kits to just hang back, poke if they can, and wait for their ally to get threatened so that they can negate that threat. It might be worth removing some of that passive power on those champions and moving it towards riskier play. Another part of the problem comes from the lack of support scaling: since gold doesn't really matter to a support, but dying or going back at the wrong time does, those supports have no real reason to play aggressively even when they have the chance. Making supports scale better with items, and thereby forcing them to interact more with their opponents to get the gold they need, could incentivize them to play aggressively.

Tenth Leper2 votes

{quoted}

This is a good starting point for discussion, and thank you for posting this. My thoughts on the questions:


#Is Sightstone in the right place as a mandatory 800g first buy? Are there other adjustments to the vision game that would be good both for the experience of playing support and the game in general?

No, Sightstone is not a fun purchase, and by all rights it should not exist at this point, nor should its upgrades. As long as it remains, the support will still remain the team's designated ward slave, and now that sight wards are restricted to trinkets, removing Sightstone would not force supports to spend gold and inventory slots on them. Other adjustments to the vision game that would help supports would likely involve making ward removal more organic and accessible to everyone, without having to resort to an additional ward type or trinket.

^ This

Zach Sandwhich3 votes

I understand that support isn't appealing, but it does have three big factors that I personally love...

Thresh Bard Braum

Kartagia3 votes

First, good teams give supports quite even gold gain. Good team never flame support for taking kills or accidentally or intentionally once a while taking minions. I have quite stable gold gain with Zyra support, if adc understands relic shield. Quite few ADC players are good. Or even decent. They have strong faith their position is the ruler of lane and boss of support, who support serves like their mother.

Real reason why supports are not appealing is the Community, and Riot. RIot has stated it out and have not intervened the way how supports are treated and harassed. And thus community has learn that support should be bullied and harassed to submission. I do not wonder why so few wants to play support, as team would start raging you when you take kill. They would rage on you if you farm when adc is back, or when adc dies due his own mistakes. THe common opinion seems to be that bottom is won by adc and lost by support.

Hige3 votes

I've been giving it a thought for quite some time now, and the truth is that support is inherently a non carry position.

what has driven me to this conclusion is simple, every champion gets to play their role from the get go, an adc is an adc from minute 0, so are junglers, mids and tops, supports on the other hand can be non-supportive champions but the real fantasy of the role is being supportive to your teammates, a Soraka for example is defined under the support role, she's not supposed to kill anyone, her main focus is healing her allies, in contrast we have brand who doesn't work as a support at all and middle grounds with champions like Zyra or even Orianna.

the reason why the support role has split itself like this is mostly because of the gold items, one of the main requirements to become a support in the old days was that the support's kit had crazy good utility from lvl 1, Blitzcrank for example, his hook is probably the most broken skill in the whole game, it could do 1 damage and have a ratio of 0.001 and it would still be incredibly powerful. Gold and items on Blitz are far less imperative than on Brand for example, as a matter of fact when there's a blitz on either team he could build nothing and just pull the right target in a fight and things would skew a lot in his favor.

This is the most important point of a support, they are incredibly proficient at disrupting the enemy's strategies, in the past this was done through utility, nowadays since assassinating a target is possible, champions like Zyra and Brand became amazing supports, their base damage is crazy and their poke potential is out of this world.

I think that the gold items must change, but in all honesty every move towards making support better is always hindered by the rest of the champion roster, say if we made CC give gold, we'd bump a lot of non supports gold income and would in fact kill the role for enchanters. Or if we tied sightstone to exhaust a la smite, then we'd open the gates for even more non enchanters to fill the role...

Sadly I think that support is in its best incarnation today and it will never be an appealing role, that's the consequence of having a 4 lane game for 5 players. Any and all change will either kill the role or push enchanters out of viability :S

Kartagia2 votes

I just love it when people use tradition basing on season 2 facts to tell Soraka should not kill. Soraka nowadays do scale, and thus benefits from kills. All supports should take kill if the other alternate is endanger team mates. Giving kills is really risky.

I hope people start update their beliefs to season 7 setting as it is totally different from season 2 setting. Also they should learn season 1 meta, as it defined harass supports. Unfortunately NOT EVEN RIOT admit existence of harass supports. The support role description does not state out that alternate, but gives out the season 2 tradition of no kills taken.

Hige2 votes

I don't think Soraka can't kill, but it's harder for her to do so because of her kit, in contrast, Brand has a much easier time killing pretty much everything, including minions.

The reason why the season 2 paradigm for supports is enforced is because that's the most optimal one, because again, enchanters need very little gold to do well in comparison to other classes, so they inherently are the best fit for the role even if people love to overlook that fact.

Kill securing is fine though, I personally don't mind it, specially if it saves me from dying, I rather my support scaling than my enemy O.o

Kartagia1 votes

Are you sure you use real comparison instead just following tradition without trying?

Brand is good support. He is my 2nd pick for harass support. And Zyra became less useful after her passive was changed. Less predictable and new Q area is harder to use than old one. I liked old passive more, as it made people less likely to kill me first.

If you think this as solo game, your reasoning is correct. Season 2 meta is best, if you think personal K/D/A, and ignore team K/D/A. I do opposite. For me team K/D/A and towers are most important, as they are goals. That is why I stated that K/D/A leads you to choose something which you think as best due limited vision. In mathematics they are called local maximums. They appear to be best because you cannot see whole picture. I did start to use Zyra as support way before Riot decided to put her to that role. Thus I do have understanding of game. I am just not limited to meta, but try to think outside the box. This is due the fact my eye-hand-coordination is not enough for the standard aggressive play style meta is based on. I rather play this tactically and focusing on real goals.

It does not mean I do not take kill when chance to do so appears. But I am not focusing on kills, as they are not that important. Most players of Player vs. Player games want to think kills are important. Trust me. I have had way more late game comebacks than not. I die? So. IT is part of game to learn to live with it. And there is plenty of situations in which avoiding death leads to worse situation for team than facing the fact I have to die now.

Hige2 votes

O.o you seem to have the hit the wrong reply button O.o

Of course team KDA is far more important than individual, hence why Soraka not having big numbers on kills is in fact pretty OK.

Brand is an amazing harass support, yeah, but Soraka isn't a harass machine, her strength lies somewhere else, as an enchanter she has heals and cc, brand isn't an enchanter, he's a mage, both have strengths and weaknesses that pretty much balance each other's out but the difference is on fall back patterns, if Brand falls behind his harass won't be as effective but if Soraka falls behind she still has powerful heals, of course, they could be better if she has some AP but that's what's great about healing, it isn't affected by magic resist while magic damage is.

I'm not sure what your point is though, Meddler gave general concerns that people have with the role, my post was oriented towards clarifying why the role is what it is and in the chance that it wasn't clear, I think the role is in the best version of itself, with harass supports and passive ones and tanky ones, this has made the role richer at its core and has opened paths for innovation.

There is an undeniable truth though, support is the least liked role, I find it awesome that someone like you can take the best of it and make it work but that's not the common scenario, most people don't even understand what a support is! and yes it's because they value individual KDA more than group KDA, the real question is:

how to make the support role appeal to these kind of people?

And my answer is, you can't... at least not without warping the whole role and possibly breaking it apart, supports have found a harmonious environment in which they can thrive but take any piece of the puzzle and it might crumble down.

Enchanters on their own do have a place in other solo lanes as well, so they aren't the problem, supporting requires an specific mindset that doesn't appeal to most and that's something the game has to live with.

Kartagia2 votes

My point is simple: Support kills are kills for team. SUpport is not likely to get kills, but Riot should start enforcing the punishment of harassing supports after they take kills or random creeps. They do not do this, as the scoring system prevents support reports having any effect, and majority of community is still playing Season 2 meta where Soraka should not take kills. Even then good teams understood support gold was still useful.

Thus the scoring system ensures that supports get punished, as majority of players are biased. And with Automatic punishment system, it is majority who decide and Riot has intentionally took stance behind this majority.

I am player who gets teamwork honors almost every game, but still get punished for verbal abuse due "arguing against flamers": Thus RIot has taken strong stance Againstpeople defending summoner's code. RIot has also taken stance that single report overcomes everything else. Positive feedback of honors is just just a joke. It has no real effect, as trolls rule through punishment and report system. IF verbal abuser gets 1 or 2 others on their side while muted, support victim is just busted. And I bet this is reason why Riot removed all chat of others from tickets. Support did give "false pardons" when they saw that the rest of team was toxic and talking others against reported. Now it is not possible. Best outcome is that both victim and bully gets punished on current system.

Lord Sessshomaru1 votes

I won't argue, you don't even have a basic understanding of how to play Zyra at her potential.

Tenth Leper3 votes

Sightstone should not be a thing, yellow trinket should recharge faster late game then it currently does and/or hold more charges, control ward trinket has to be thing.

There. Vision is fixed and equally born by all

ProfDrDeath2 votes

No.

Sightstone needs to be a thing to allow people to go for both vision and counter-vision. If there was no Sightstone, you'd either need to relinquish your mobile ward sweeping (making games more passive) or not have enough vision (again, making games more passive).

Teridax681 votes

There are five different players on the team who each have access to their own trinket. Even if you assume that the marksman gets blue trinket and every other non-support gets yellow trinket, that gives the support the option to get red trinket and start sweeping (the jungler also tends to get red trinket as well, past the laning phase). On top of that, we now have Scryer's Bloom, plants everyone can use that can reveal wards across a massive area. Sightstone is obsolete, and as long as we keep expecting the support to ward or counter-ward more than any other role, supporting will never be as popular as it could be.

In the absolute worst case, even if Sightstone's removal does lead to too little vision, or to insufficient counter-warding, that would only indicate that the item would have been a band-aid to a vision game that was dysfunctional in the first place. Buffs to yellow trinket could guarantee more wards, and buffs to red trinket would guarantee more counter-warding, but perhaps it might be time to rethink the way wards are deployed and cleared, especially now that invisibility got updated. If there were ways to clear wards that did not require getting a specific counter item, for example, everyone would be able to participate in ward clearing, and would still be able to participate in warding through yellow trinket. Put another way, nobody would have an excuse to not participate in the vision game, and so it would be impossible to defer the burden of vision onto the support.

Naqel2 votes

Gold income as a support: Kill gold should be split even.

No more priority for the killing blow, just split it even. I can assure you people would greatly appreciate it if doing good(killing someone) was always the right call, and never ended up with some asshole whining that they only got an assist.

While we're on the subject of assists: do the Overwatch thing, and only have a single stat for eliminations/takedowns. I understand that touching a guy once should not be treated equal to doing 99% of the damage, but sometimes that one touch is the difference between a kill and a getaway. The game probably can't tell the difference, so it should err on the side of caution.

Also on the subject of gold, give us items that let the AD feed their support some of it. An AD version of Face of The mountain would do wonders for support income.

Teridax681 votes

I agree with splitting takedown gold and scores evenly, there are so many awkward situations where it's considered wrong to kill a member of the enemy team simply because you'd be denying your ally some gold. There's also still somewhat of a terrible mentality in some situations where players believe "assists don't count", which is one of the reasons why supports and even tanks often feel like they don't get appreciated enough even when they bring a massive takedown contribution to their team.

Skias2 votes

The ward burden needs to be taken off supports and spread across the team. Sightstone isn't fun and it isn't interesting. 800 Gold of boredom, as a mandatory purchase. Also, the items are pretty meh. I mean, I main Taric and he's more fun in the jungle and top. Because the items I can buy are combat items. Not just auras and uninteresting things like that.

khorney1 votes

there is nothing appealing about being a supp .......... there is a reason no one likes doing it and supps get all the blame for a lost match. give the passive gold gain back to ancient coi per 10 secs. people dont liek doing it because its boring, supps do nto have a impact in the game as i can prove it becuase no matter what you do you have to rely on your team.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

"becuase no matter what you do you have to rely on your team." you obviously play the wrong sups..... Annie Velkoz Ziggs Brand Poppy Sona Teemo

Jmman1 votes

And there is the elephant in the room.

When you support if you are not queued with your adc there is no point to pick a "standard support". If you are queued together then it can be fun.

I used to only support. But I like blitz, Allister, fiddle, and naut. These champs were fun and had an impact on the game. You got to do things and be a part of the team. Over time the damage has gotten crazy high. Support and mage items blow compared to Melee and adc. So now you have to be at the same gold/lvl not to get destroyed in .5 sec.

How to fix the issue

kills and assists give same gold. Update mage and support items to ADC/melee items (they cost more so they are more effective with higher scaling. More options from non adc/melee items) Make a talent to "catch up exp" Removed warding items and only have on trinkets.
Support be item based rather than champ based. (Items that slow champs movement speeds/ remove cc/ slot with pink-control ward/ ect should only be on support items with support stats. this will fix a lot of balancing issues scale down adc from lvl 1-6

Moral of the story is why play a roll that you can't win with. Support you have to babysit other classes. If you adc sucks your game is done as support. You can try to help other lanes but you are too far behind to have an impact. What is support in an army? Missiles, cover-fire, body armour, long range guns/ sniper fire, vehicles, communication, ect. Heck event the spotter for a sniper has a gun and a good shot. LOL is like saying hey hold all the bullets and get yelled at when they miss. Just plain bad design. and the champ that needs baby sitting can 3 shot everyone late game (4 or 5 for tanks) can click out of cc, has escapes, mad healing through life steal, and fastest for killing turrets is just crazy. So the question is why play support in ranked if you can't impact the game to win. (not when you have a good adc but when you have a bad one)

Seize The Kills1 votes

I feel like the mastery tree needs some work for support, in 90% of cases you automatically go for bandit and meditation. You need the gold and on almost all non-tank supports (and most of those too) you need the mana.

Same goes for Insight, summoner spells are such a big deal botlane, this isn't really optional for a support if they have exhaust up and you don't, you lose pretty much. The risk is just to great to gamble on better sustain or resists.

The keystones are pretty ok now with the new Courage of the Colossus. It's a shame tough there's nothing in Ferocity to ever justify going all the way to tier 6 in that for anyone but Brand as a support.

MrNhbdy1 votes

I know what ya mean, they took away the % damage from movement impaired enemies.....now my 12th point in ferocity as a support seems lack luster.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

"We’d therefore like to make support attractive to more players, without taking away what makes it appealing to existing support players." well that's simple. Just start heavily appealing to female players lol increasing the amount of female player in league will directly correlate to more support players.

edit: not sure why you guys are downvoting me. Does reality offend you?

50000000000000001 votes

As for gold income, I think it should definitely be less, but support items should be cheaper in return, approximately so that supports don't fall behind in number of items. I think this is working fine.

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if trinkets could be upgraded (instead of altered like now), so that sightstone takes up trinket slot.

Runes aren't very interesting right now, but I think masteries are definitely in a good place. Actually, scratch that. Supports don't get many options to choose from. Some sort of vision/utility tree would be nice.

Menacus1 votes

Not really a good player but for me the greatest issue is the "Recognition of success as support". Mostly:

  • your either the butt monkey of the team or no one takes you seriously. I've commonly heard the phrase "you're supp so STFU". The team refuses to help you and as you're super reliant on them helping you it's impossible for you to meaningfully contribute. They ignore your pings, your calls and in general treat you as some kind of worse team member.
  • it feels like you're not really on the same page as it comes to contribution as the other people on the team. When your team is ahead it often feels like you don't even have to there for them to win and when you're behind it's hard to see any way for you to influence the game. The play making potential feels like it's not there. This applies to some characters more than the others, for instance Tresh and Tahm Kench have very visible high moments. Meanwhile other supports have boring and outdated kits or feel like they're worse versions of other champions (for instance Leona feels for me like a worse Vanguard than the typical jungle and toplane vanguards). It's as if Riot can make an interesting and satisfying kit for any position but supports just end up getting boring things.

I actually like playing supportive characters but in LoL I just feel like I'm not even there playing the game just looking at 4 other guys do their stuff while I'm spectating.

PoeticJumpshot 1 votes

Gold income as support - Bandit giving double the minion gold would be an easy income increase that's controlled (credit to someone else in this post). Something similar to this for experience or even like the old exp mastery would be an option as an item or mastery - I don't see an issue with adding another option in the trees, though placing this mastery would be tricky. The exp quints just don't do enough to help and you can't use that as a lever for supports because of the availability. I think the obvious reason gold isn't equally available is to prevent the support role from being a "safe" scale position for late game champs to sit in and collect easy gold. I can't really think of any simple way to give supports gold generation based on skilled play though. They're rewarded for that with assist gold obviously, but as previously stated support is a role that requires a lot of underappreciated work that just isn't compensated in a personal in-game way.

Recognition of success as support - There should be some form of bonus for having a strong Kill participation as support - I think it's the most telling impact they can have. I'd even be ok with supports earning more LP for wins, or lose less with each loss, especially if it's obvious they don't main support just as a general boon to encourage players to pick up the role. Other games give additional benefits to those willing to fill scarce roles, and I found it to be an awesome model personally. I was already playing in those roles and it definitely made me feel appreciated to say the least.

Itemization

Are support items sufficiently compelling or does power progression as a support often feel worse than other roles?

Power progression is non existent as a support unless you're playing a mage or a FOTM OP champ - but I think it's the positions inherent items and the champs that can thrive in spite of having to buy them. Tanks, buffers, some high base ranged damage dealers. Supports typically only get to build 1 or 2 traditional "lane" items after the slew of "required" support items(gold gen, boots, vision, redemption, aegis, etc.), and it's often another supportive item at that (zz, FH, rylais, etc.) While these items are great items there's just no way for supports to not feel hollow with all the defensive based "required" items that nobody else wants to build. An adc doesn't want to build a team shield item. Not because team shields aren't great but because the stats on the team shield active are terrible for the adc itself. The mid/top laners have the same issue, and sometimes your jungler as well. So it falls to the support - who's basically being told that their personal itemization does not matter, and I think that's part of what creates such a dislike for the position as a whole. I can't tell you how many times I was told to buy an old version of the aegis by my ad mid/top who were against ap counterparts that wouldn't build a hexdrinker themselves - then being flamed/reported if I didn't bend to their demands. Obviously if the enemy is ap heavy I'm buying it, but when they have a single AP champ... anyways. Completely understand the worlds thought process - these are the most "impactful" items a support can have with less gold and exp. Still doesn't make it enjoyable.

Is Sightstone in the right place as a mandatory 800g first buy? Are there other adjustments to the vision game that would be good both for the >experience of playing support and the game in general?

Vision as a first purchase yes. Sightstone itself? No. I despise sightstone because of what it creates. I think the vision trinkets were a great step in increasing team vision, as well as the ward option for junglers. On the other hand, the 3 gold gen vision options just don't stack up against their active counterparts. Riot maintains that vision is a team thing - but they created items 100% unappealing to anyone except those in a support role. I think elites/pro's can appreciate the general greatness that health is, but it's a bland stat that is optimal for tanks only and its far to costly for any role except a support. Laners can't afford team utility at any point in the game (or so it seems). I understand vision vs combat stats should be an important choice to force people to make, but I think having an AD friendly vision option so my top lane riven can drop an extra ward on the map is something that should be a viable option. The same can apply to ap based champs as well. I think you should have to spend gold on vision because it's an important thing to have, but it's just really unattractive to every other role.

Pre-Game Are supports properly served by pre-game choices (runes/masteries/summoner spells) in terms of their effectiveness?

Runes - Not much to say really. If experience gain was increased scaling runes would be more viable. That's about it.

Masteries - Bandit is a legit requirement as support, and that's fine I guess. It's an easy lever for riot to control and it does have a skill reward as well with the on hit gold. The new resolve keystone is amazing - fully expect it to be nerfed, but it's got a hidden wrinkle of skill and risk/reward in it. IE: do I spend my cc with 1 enemy in range in order to lock someone down, or do I wait to catch a bigger shield and risk something bad happening because of it? It's created a new nuance to pay attention too, and I like it a lot.

Summoners - Nothing feels too out of place. Some general ideas though - One interesting thing would be maybe having a passive summoner spell as an option. A minor permanent buff in exchange for one of your summoners might be something appealing though I imagine it would be terrible to balance. An offensive version of exhaust to buff up one or all of your team mates is something that would be awesome as well. A short term damage steroid of some sort basically, though I could see the balance issues in that already. Imagine a team wide damage boost that caused damage to your own teammates in exchange for a short term group steroid. That would be fun. There's inherent risk, and obvious reward that can still be outplayed by the enemy.

The biggest pregame choice that wasn't even mentioned is the champion selection. The moment you become support 75% of champs just became off limits. Whether it's because of their item needs, scaling, etc, that's just how it's going to be in the current system. Your expected itemization tends to only "work" with a very specific line of champs. If those change, you would see more variety at the position, but overall the meta diversity at support seems to be better than most other roles.

Champion picks create the lane. Don't think there's anything you can do about certain laning patterns without seriously upsetting power curves/spikes/etc.

Closing Statement

At the end of the day I think most people don't play support because the impact you can have is just not as big as in another role. Yes, occasionally you can carry a game as a support - just not nearly as often as from other roles - and even then it's still DEPENDENT on your team mates to succeed. I personally play 4 of out 5 positions (can't adc just not good at it). It's extremely frustrating and infuriating when I decide "hey I'll support this game instead of top/mid" and then my mid/top lanes get wrecked into oblivion and there's nothing I can do to save the game. It's even worse when I know I could have won those lanes and even the game probably if I was in that role. As a support it doesn't matter if we just dominated that lane phase because I'm supporting correctly i'm not on a champion equipped to carry a team - I have to rely on the other 4 people to play well and make the right decisions to win. I'm risking an hour/hour and a half of my life in LP that I can trust these random people to not waste my invested time. I think when people go to que up, most look at support and think "Do I really trust these other people to win this game for me?" and quite frankly most probably don't. I don't expect a single player on my team to ever be good. I go in with the expectation that I must god carry every random team I'm on or I will lose - meaning not only do I lose LP and that 40 minutes, I have to spend more time to earn it back. I'd like to say that's not how it feels but that's the truth. We're expected to want to play for the good of the team but it's all for a personal rank. So every time I que up I'm essentially gambling with the hours of my life and if I'm going to lose hours of work it better be because I was the reason and not somebody else.

Okamikazi1 votes

I used to hate support role until i tried Nautilus. If I can get out of bronze with this guy then im definitely getting the warden skin. The real reason why I've come to like the supp role is because I found the fun. The fun being that other non-supp champs can fit the role. Tried Vi, it works. Tried Illaoi, it works and those two worked before the pre-season changes. Basically for me, if a melee champ can fight then its fun. Right now the tank supps cant even win a 1v1, because they have to build tanky and not damage. A non-support damage dealer can win a 2v1 as long as they kill the squishy which then the tank still dies even when his hp is at 100% and the enemy is at 50%.

Gold Income - The biggest income problem I hate is that supports cant farm alone. I feel sad whenever I see a big feasts go to waste because my team loves team death-match more than wining.

Recognition - Dont know if supps will ever get better recognition than the damage dealers. Its not the amount of kills that makes the damage dealers more exciting its the speed at which they execute their plays. Supports are the SLOWEST champions in the game. The only support iv found to be fun, fast, and exciting is Kharazim from Heroes of the Storm.

Itemization - I want items that can turn other fun champions into viable supports. I want to be able to choose Riven even when my other team mates aren't going to pick a tank.

Pre-Game - Runes are good. For masteries I want to choose 2 keystones instead of just one for the same reason for itemization. The reason that exhaust is dominant is because it reduces movement and damage, where as the others only have 1 pro, except for heal but is already taken with the adc. Cleanse will never be viable as long the enemy can use their cc multiple times before cleanse is back up.

Lanning Patterns - Want to improve passive play? Then reduce the factors that encourage passive play. Lane freezing, ganking, poke comps, ward teleporting, counter picking.

Things that will make me quit supp - Overnerfing melee, like Braum - Johanna from Heroes of the Storm is WAY better, she actually has offense. The overpowering of ranged damage and cc - the less im able to do during a fight the less fun it gets.

CookyPrince1 votes

The new support items and changes are so cool and I'm really enjoying them along with the Ruby SIghtstone active items cdr buff which makes me wanna build it over the mix items. The gold gain is pretty fair, though it leans a bit towards lacking or maybe it's just me. To be honest though I think Nami's a bit too strong of a support, since she can be both aggressive and passive along with her good sustain and cc, like a better soraka. I really can't think of anything else

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