Zeke's harbringer is basically:

manbearswine·Sep 18, 2015·4 votes·568 views

"we felt supports are too god damn rich so we are forcing them(with this op nonsense) to spend some of their crazy gold income to buy their carries stats,as especially adcs are very poor"

WHAT THE FUCK

18 Comments

AnomanderSep 18, 20154 votes

Supports are meant to support their team. Items like item 3050 item 3190 item 3110 item 3069 item 2049 Are all meant to give stats to your team. And they are all great items for supports.

As a support it is not your job to carry. It is your job to give your team the ability to carry.

Now there are some exceptions and power carry supports like Annie Morgana and a few others who can build far more ap. However these items item 3050 item 3092 item 2049 item 3001 are still great builds for carry supports. While abyssal is better on your ap mid in most cases it can be a good item on supports as well.

manbearswineSep 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Supports are meant to support their team. Items like Are all meant to give stats to your team. And they are all great items for supports.

As a support it is not your job to carry. It is your job to give your team the ability to carry.

Now there are some exceptions and power carry supports like and a few others who can build far more ap. However these items are still great builds for carry supports. While abyssal is better on your ap mid in most cases it can be a good item on supports as well.

How about remove the ward limit and turn back supports to full on slaves like this item wants them to?

Coin lets you control fights,you choose when you activate the speedboost. Locket and it's active are the same thing(you choose when to use it),but it's also important to remember that locket is only slightly stat inefficient on its wearer. Frozen heart is a tank item. Sightstone is made as a compromise between the old vision system and the new.

New zeke's is a pure slave item,there's very little decision making involved with it,you don't go "oh I should senseless spam abilities to proc the passive",nor will your carries go "oh okay zekes is up soon,jump on them now!(instead they will be opportunistic and see when they can get a good engage)",zekes is just you buying your carries stats,and is a step back to the old slave meta.

AnomanderSep 18, 20153 votes

Yeah it's not like your buying yourself the same stats? ESP on carry supports like Annie Morgana ....... Yeah your a complete slave to your team.... It's not like supports are the real play makers who set up and make it happen......

manbearswineSep 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah it's not like your buying yourself the same stats? ESP on carry supports like ....... Yeah your a complete slave to your team.... It's not like supports are the real play makers who set up and make it happen......

Exactly,because even these guys can't rival the ap of their mid laner(unless somehow hyper fed),and even then the crit chance is better.

And I love how suddenly supports went from people whom "it's not their job to carry,but to give their team the ability to carry" to the "real play makers" you're so full shit,classic silver nooblord.

TwigglesSep 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Exactly,because even these guys can't rival the ap of their mid laner(unless somehow hyper fed),and even then the crit chance is better.

And I love how suddenly supports went from people whom "it's not their job to carry,but to give their team the ability to carry" to the "real play makers" you're so full shit,classic silver nooblord.

Except you completely missed his point. You don't have to carry to make plays. Supports are by and large, enablers for carrying. They make the initial plays so that others can carry. He did not contradict himself at all.

That fact that you are personally attacking him because of his rank DESPITE the fact that he's right just proves that you are just fishing for an excuse to whine about how supports are so oppressed. In fact, supports are more appreciated now than they ever used to be. But I'm sure my input means nothing since I'm bronze 3, right?

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except you completely missed his point. You don't have to carry to make plays. Supports are by and large, enablers for carrying. They make the initial plays so that others can carry. He did not contradict himself at all.

He most certainly did,enablers are not play makers,enablers are lulu and janna who defend the carry,play makers are blitzcrank and naut,who screw with enemy carries.

That fact that you are personally attacking him because of his rank DESPITE the fact that he's right just proves that you are just fishing for an excuse to whine about how supports are so oppressed.

Except that he is not right,just because you're too shit of a player to see that doesn't make him any less wrong than he is.

In fact, supports are more appreciated now than they ever used to be.

Yes,and zeke's is a step back to the slave meta,if the changes are good,why go back to being a slave?

But I'm sure my input means nothing since I'm bronze 3, right?

It's mostly a function of how deep your head is up your ass,which also correlates with rank rather well.

TwigglesSep 18, 20151 votes

He most certainly did,enablers are not play makers,enablers are lulu and janna who defend the carry,play makers are blitzcrank and naut,who screw with enemy carries.

How on earth are enablers not play makers? Lulu saving her adc at the last second with her ult and winning her team the fight by doing so sure sounds like a great play to me. Janna splitting up the enemy team to pick them off, also a good play. On top of that, you just said that Blitzcrank and Nautilus are playmakers. Well guess what? They are often played as support. And if "messing with the enemy carries" defines a play, then I'd say that Lulu polymorphs and knockups as well as Janna knockups and knockbacks certainly count as plays by your definition. And since those enablers are also playmakers, you are the only one contradicting yourself here.

Except that he is not right,just because you're too shit of a player to see that doesn't make him any less wrong than he is.

Once again, you are jumping to personal attacks because you can't handle losing an argument. I've just explained why he is right and you are wrong. Get over it or actually prove me wrong.

Yes,and zeke's is a step back to the slave meta,if the changes are good,why go back to being a slave?

There's nothing wrong with having the option to buff another character. Hell, I certainly appreciate it when I play adc and my support buys a zeke's. I don't expect it, but it's helpful to have. All it does is add another option, especially for supports like Soraka who can just hang back and use the stats.

It's mostly a function of how deep your head is up your ass,which also correlates with rank rather well.

Once again, attacking me personally instead of actually proving any sort of relevant point. The only thing you've proven in this entire thread is that you are an elitist who is too desperate to win an argument for anyone to actually take them seriously. Resorting to personal insults is never a valid way of continuing a discussion, and you've made it clear that you offer this thread nothing else. You may be plat while I'm bronze, but at least I know how to have a civilized conversation.

I sincerely hope that you have a nice day and seriously consider growing up a bit before posting again.

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How on earth are enablers not play makers? Lulu saving her adc at the last second with her ult and winning her team the fight by doing so sure sounds like a great play to me.

Wow,you clicked on your carry for point click cc just like everyone knew you would? someone should give you a medal,no,that's not a play.

Janna splitting up the enemy team to pick them off, also a good play.

She can do that,she mostly just peels,every champion can make plays,but janna and lulu are definitely on the bottom tier of play making,they are peelers,they enable other teammates.

On top of that, you just said that Blitzcrank and Nautilus are playmakers. Well guess what? They are often played as support. And if "messing with the enemy carries" defines a play, then I'd say that Lulu polymorphs and knockups as well as Janna knockups and knockbacks certainly count as plays by your definition. And since those enablers are also playmakers, you are the only one contradicting yourself here.

Yes they are supports,I didn't say supports aren't playmakers,HE DID. Then he made a jump across to the other spectrum,it's not me contracting myself,he just speaks utter nonsense and instead of realizing that,you put it on me,I'm just following up on the nonsense he pulls.

Once again, you are jumping to personal attacks because you can't handle losing an argument. I've just explained why he is right and you are wrong. Get over it or actually prove me wrong.

Oh okay I have tons of exprieince with garbage like this: no u prov me worng frist.

There's nothing wrong with having the option to buff another character. Hell, I certainly appreciate it when I play adc and my support buys a zeke's. I don't expect it, but it's helpful to have. All it does is add another option, especially for supports like Soraka who can just hang back and use the stats.

Except that it's not an option,the item is op at the moment,it's as much of an option as not being a ward bot back in s3 was,you totally could just buy items instead of wards,totally.

Once again, attacking me personally instead of actually proving any sort of relevant point. The only thing you've proven in this entire thread is that you are an elitist who is too desperate to win an argument for anyone to actually take them seriously. Resorting to personal insults is never a valid way of continuing a discussion, and you've made it clear that you offer this thread nothing else. You may be plat while I'm bronze, but at least I know how to have a civilized conversation.

Nope,I've proven plenty of things,you on the other hand just stick to unsupported nonsensical statements and claim to have proven them even though you did no such thing.

I sincerely hope that you have a nice day and seriously consider growing up a bit before posting again.

Classical clueless scrub,can't realize he is the one wrong,keeps throwing it at the other guy instead,no,it's impossible to prove you deranged lunatics wrong,that's kind of a core part of being a deranged lunatic.

TwigglesSep 18, 20151 votes

Classical clueless scrub,can't realize he is the one wrong,keeps throwing it at the other guy instead,no,it's impossible to prove you deranged lunatics wrong,that's kind of a core part of being a deranged lunatic.

This is literally the only part of your post that I need to quote as the rest speaks for itself. Still personally attacking others without proving a real point. I'm apparently a deranged lunatic, and you clearly cannot handle the pressure of being in a discussion, preferring to whine about something not worth whining about and treating anyone who disagrees with you like trash. Again, I hope you have a nice day. I, for one, would rather spend my time with people worth conversing with.

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is literally the only part of your post that I need to quote as the rest speaks for itself. Still personally attacking others without proving a real point.

How about you prove a real point first,then talk to me about proving points.

I'm apparently a deranged lunatic, and you clearly cannot handle the pressure of being in a discussion, preferring to whine about something not worth whining about and treating anyone who disagrees with you like trash.

You're not disagreeing with me,you are being delusinal,there's a difference. A person disagreeing brings solid arguments,a delusional person completely turns off his common sense and just screams "you didn't prove that!you didn't prove that!",it's how arguments with creationists go,you get your proof,you just deny that it proves anything,hence the term delusional,and deranged lunatic.

I'm not making personal attacks,I'm pointing out facts.

Again, I hope you have a nice day. I, for one, would rather spend my time with people worth conversing with.

Well have fun with whatever lunatics you deem worthy of conversing with.

AnomanderSep 18, 20151 votes

It is still the others who are doing the damage/Carrying. It is the SUPPORTS job to make it possible. THAT IS MAKING PLAYS.

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is still the others who are doing the damage/Carrying. It is the SUPPORTS job to make it possible. THAT IS MAKING PLAYS.

Well have fun with that with the incredibly inefficient stats harbinger gives supports,go back to being a slave.

MarthianSep 18, 20151 votes

You need to stop thinking that items can only be built by the role it was mainly geared towards. Frozen Heart is a solid support item: Gives mana to spam your support abilities more, CDR to help with spamming abilities, armor to defend against their carry/team, and a good as debuff on their team.

Nothing wrong with supports (or any role in general) buying items intended for other roles. Don't see every one complaining about fighters building BoRK, Riven/Fiora building Bloodthirster, Soraka building Warmogs+lots of health, or ADCs building Randuin's Omen. Why is supports building non-support items such a big issue?

Also: So what if you are giving your carry/team free stats/utility? THAT'S THE POINT OF BEING A SUPPORT. You aren't there to get kills, you are there to help your team get kills/be great so they can snowball harder. If they are getting kills constantly, you are getting more gold as well. Zeke's isn't a slave item: You, the support, ALSO get the stat bonuses from proccing it (you seem to be forgetting the bonus applies to you AS WELL AS your carry.)

Finally, there is a world of difference between now and supports back then. Now you can actually build items you, the support, want to build. Back before the ward limit (and no trinket system.), it was solely the support's job: 99% of your gold was basically to be used to get more vision. It was a miracle to finish any items at all (and if you fall behind, you will never finish an item or be able to contribute much.) (Also, the ward limit came way AFTER sightstone's introduction.)

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You need to stop thinking that items can only be built by the role it was mainly geared towards.

You need to stop thinking you know something about supports that I don't,you would surpass me in rank if you did.

Frozen Heart is a solid support item: Gives mana to spam your support abilities more, CDR to help with spamming abilities, armor to defend against their carry/team, and a good as debuff on their team.

And guess what? Most of those are pretty fucking selfish stats,you are not buying stats for your team like you do with harbringer,you are buying them for yourself,frozen heart is not a slave item like harbinger is,it's a standard tank item.

Nothing wrong with supports (or any role in general) buying items intended for other roles. Don't see every one complaining about fighters building BoRK, Riven/Fiora building Bloodthirster, Soraka building Warmogs+lots of health, or ADCs building Randuin's Omen. Why is supports building non-support items such a big issue?

It isn't,what the hell? The problem is supports buying slave items,that's it.

Also: So what if you are giving your carry/team free stats/utility?

STOP FUCKING CALLING EVERYTHING FREE ITS NOT FUCKING FREE YOU FUCKING PAY FOR IT Why in the bloody hell should a support buy stats for his carry,you like being a bitch?

THAT'S THE POINT OF BEING A SUPPORT.

No,it isn't,it used to be,then riot realized people don't like being a bitch,how about we don't repeat that mistake?

You aren't there to get kills, you are there to help your team get kills/be great so they can snowball harder. If they are getting kills constantly, you are getting more gold as well. Zeke's isn't a slave item: You, the support, ALSO get the stat bonuses from proccing it (you seem to be forgetting the bonus applies to you AS WELL AS your carry.)

You seem to be forgetting how useless that bonus is for the support "OH BOY 50% CRIT CHANCE THAT'S GREAT","OH MAN I GET 20% MORE TO THE AP I CAN'T AFFORD,AWESOME!".

Finally, there is a world of difference between now and supports back then. Now you can actually build items you, the support, want to build. Back before the ward limit (and no trinket system.), it was solely the support's job: 99% of your gold was basically to be used to get more vision. It was a miracle to finish any items at all (and if you fall behind, you will never finish an item or be able to contribute much.) (Also, the ward limit came way AFTER sightstone's introduction.)

And this is a step(note the word "step",it doesn't send you back to s3 with this one item,you just get closer to it) back to that,you are spending the little gold you have to buy your carry items.

LadyRenlySep 18, 20152 votes

What's wrong with Zeke's? I've been buying it since day 1 for my Nami. Mainly for the armor/mana build path, then it gives me CD, then ability power. It's pretty sweet. I dig it.

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What's wrong with Zeke's? I've been buying it since day 1 for my Nami. Mainly for the armor/mana build path, then it gives me CD, then ability power. It's pretty sweet. I dig it.

okay let me give you a run down of the stats for nami:

10% cdr-is good,cdr is a great stat pretty much for all supports. 50 ap-is okayish,not too great of a stat for a utility support. 250 mana-isn't great,utility supports spam abilities,they want mana regen,not so much mana. 30 armor- armor is mostly for frontliners and people who get focused,utility supports don't do that,rather bad stat.

It gives a bunch of stats but they generally aren't stats which are good for supports,utility supports mostly value: cdr,mana regen,movement speed,magic resist,and health.

Tank supports generally want: cdr,movement speed,mana,armor,health and magic resist.

In contrast to items like locket/banner,or mikaels for utility supports,who only give you the stats you want the most,this item just doesn't give you the stats that you REALLY want,it does however gives your adc some very strong stats,it's a bitch item.

Zone of EndlessSep 18, 20151 votes

Thank of a typical healer class in rpg and that is what a support is. They bring utilities to carry fights instead of damage. Support in the game have the job of initiating fights if no other options are available, helping team following up on an engage, and peeling for the ADC the main dps. And if you think about it support are insanely strong because their ability to be useful despite working with the lowest amount of gold.

manbearswineSep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thank of a typical healer class in rpg and that is what a support is.

Honestly? Those things are cancer,they are always overpowered,they are overpowered because without being overpowered nobody will want to play them,this is a VERY bad design for a class.

They bring utilities to carry fights instead of damage.

It depends what you mean by utility,there are very different types of utility,the fun ones are generally disables-cc and debuffs,the bitch ones are auras,heals and shields.

Think about it,why is taric seen as boring? why did sona get her rework? Everybody knows being a aura is a shit identity,why create zekes then?

Support in the game have the job of initiating fights if no other options are available, helping team following up on an engage, and peeling for the ADC the main dps.

Ok first of all,a support can intiate even if other options are available(just ask thresh or blitz) and that's good,and a fun design,but does zeke's help them with that?

It does not,it's a bitch item,it exists for you to spend gold to give your carry stats,as far as helping you intiate/peel/and follow up it is completely subpar to other items,but it's good at giving your carry stats.

And if you think about it support are insanely strong because their ability to be useful despite working with the lowest amount of gold.

That's a very silly way to look at it,the champions work to mitigate the gold disadvantage,that's true,but they don't really compensate for all of it,what is the difference between jungle naut and support naut?

One has more room to roam and more gold to buy items,the other is the support.