If triple doran rings gets nerfed...

Oakleaf Ranger·May 26, 2017·23 votes·2,053 views

Buff the users mana pool and/or lower their mana costs. I don't want to go OOM after using one rotation of abilities when Fiora is able to spam her 20-40 mana cost Q.

39 Comments

PhelasMay 26, 20175 votes

Sure, getting everything a tank wants to sustain for 20 minutes with just 1200 gold is reasonable.

That being said, Fiora could need a love tap here and there.

QuešMay 26, 201718 votes

I d prefer big thick nerfhammer not just love tap.Fuck Fiora.

Jet SettMay 26, 20172 votes

T H I C C

IcyPepperMay 26, 20172 votes

***E X T R A ***

T H I C C

Fed by Snu SnuMay 26, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=TOXIC EU JUNGLER,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZeyoGLjn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-26T09:14:34.612+0000)

Sure, getting everything a tank wants to sustain for 20 minutes with just 1200 gold is reasonable.

That being said, Fiora could need a love tap here and there.

In a game where the average time before it ends keeps on diminishing and diminishing thanks to Riot's changes, investing 1200 gold on non-upgradeable items does seem like a fair trade.

AMYS GRAVEMay 26, 20171 votes

Sure, getting everything a tank wants to sustain for 20 minutes with just 1200 gold is reasonable.

Triple dorans gives armor, MR, CDR, HP regen, and move speed too now?

Asayake 5150glowMay 26, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Buff the users mana pool and/or lower their mana costs. I don't want to go OOM after using one rotation of abilities when Fiora is able to spam her 20-40 mana cost Q.

Stop mentioning Fiora to farm upvotes. She's the current Yasuo of the boards rn, lmao.

AtheosisXMay 26, 20172 votes

Wait, what's the problem with triple Doran's?

ErockandrollMay 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Wait, what's the problem with triple Doran's?

Honestly, I don't actually know.

It pretty much the go to option for AP Tanks in the top lane, because it offers some base damage, and enough mana regen to serve as the team tank, with out having to invest in a complete mana item.

Whether that's actually a problem is up for debate. Though as I mentioned earlier, I kinda wish Tanks had more caster options available to them.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 26, 20172 votes

Like always with tank... when there issue with them its about they hit so hard and... are too tanky.

Here Galio Nautilus build three item 1056 and there unkillable and wave clear easly. It give them to much power more nothing.

same problem with Shen item 1054

EndlessSorcererMay 26, 20172 votes

3x Doran's Rings are basically acting as a substitute for Sunfire Cape on certain tanks (i.e. Nautilus, Galio, Gragas) so they can waveclear and trade during the laning phase.

People don't like tanks being able to waveclear and trade.

Considering how gold-efficient Doran's Rings are and how quickly games are decided (often long before you have to sell more than one of them), there isn't any real reason not to.

IcyPepperMay 26, 20172 votes

What does Fiora have to do with mages.

DrCyanideMay 26, 20171 votes

At MSI it was usually tanky tops that bought item 1056 as an alternative to item 3010 for health and mana.

IcyPepperMay 26, 20173 votes

Alright, I'm assuming you mean tanky mages. Still, I find little of this actually having to do with Fiora. If the chick becomes OP in the laning phase, they'll probably just nerf her early game or some shit.

Also, seriously, three doran's rings? Three? Either there's an issue with those items, or the champions that need to buy them, and neither one of those seem to have anything to do with Fiora.

I guess my point here is that all these points can be made without tacking on whatever [champion that is currently not liked].

EndlessSorcererMay 26, 20171 votes

AFAIK, it was AP-scaling tanks using it as a replacement for Sunfire Cape.

Oakleaf RangerMay 26, 20172 votes

Gragas Malphite Nautilus Galio are not mages (except galio). The reason I brought up Fiora is because unlike them she and a slew of other top lane champions have very low mana costs. Playing tanks into champions like these Camille Darius Fiora Irelia Jayce sucks so much when they are able use their abilities much MUCH more freely for farming and trading compared to tanks who have to play significantly much more conserved with their mana.

IcyPepperMay 27, 20172 votes

Honestly, that would have resonated better in the OP. Like, you're making good points here, but singling out one champion made it come across as a generic "pls nerf X champion" post.

I commend you for giving me information to think about, but please consider my (hopefully constructive) criticism too.

Asayake 5150glowMay 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

are not mages (except galio). The reason I brought up Fiora is because unlike them she and a slew of other top lane champions have very low mana costs. Playing tanks into champions like these sucks so much when they are able use their abilities much MUCH more freely for farming and trading compared to tanks who have to play significantly much more conserved with their mana.

Well those tanks usually have high mana costs for a reason, most of their abilities are much stronger in terms of utility.

Oakleaf RangerMay 28, 20171 votes

but not in wave clear or damage. That's the trade off, yet they still pay a significantly much higher cost for no good reason.

Asayake 5150glowMay 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

but not in wave clear or damage. That's the trade off, yet they still pay a significantly much higher cost for no good reason.

Some do. For example Galio Q, Malphite E, Naut E (if maxed), Gragas everything.

And that's not true - mana costs on tanks are kept high intentionally. Why do you think Naut's W gets a 110 mana cost fully ranked? When they go to nerf tanks, the first thing they look at is usually mana costs. I'm not completely sure why, but I know there's a very, very good reason.

Plus Gragas does a shit ton of damage and is really hard to fight.

Oakleaf RangerMay 28, 20171 votes

Because otherwise people would max W first since it gives a shield and aoe damage. Gragas main source of damage is a short range aoe telegraphed ability that needs time ramp up before doing max damage. Plus without landing it, its much harder to land your body slam. The base damage all the champions named are very telegraphed and/or sustained damage that can be avoided. If the base damage these champions needs be slightly lowered for significant early mana buffs then so be it.

Asayake 5150glowMay 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because otherwise people would max W first since it gives a shield and aoe damage. Gragas main source of damage is a short range aoe telegraphed ability that needs time ramp up before doing max damage. Plus without landing it, its much harder to land your body slam. The base damage all the champions named are very telegraphed and/or sustained damage that can be avoided. If the base damage these champions needs be slightly lowered for significant early mana buffs then so be it.

Gragas Q does plenty of damage when not charged though, and it's a large AoE and it's range is actually not bad. And E isn't that hard to hit most of the times.

SucceedsawceMay 26, 20171 votes

who said anything about triple doran's ring being nerfed? are they talking about it somewhere?

also, what champs are even abusing this to make it a problem?

MartensiticMay 26, 20176 votes

Abusing is the wrong word, because they are not "abusing" it...they merely make good use of the fact, that for some tanky champions mana-availability and raw health is much more beneficial than defensive stats early in the game, due to their shielding, dmg-reduction and recuperation abilities...the added damage is just icing on the cake.

Most notably, this is true for:

Gragas Nautilus Galio , and to a lesser extend even tank Ekko and tank Fizz .

I say again however, that this is not these champions fault, but rather riots, for weakening the early game impact of defensive stats to the point where they are now.

SucceedsawceMay 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Abusing is the wrong word, because they are not "abusing" it...they merely make good use of the fact, that for some tanky champions mana-availability and raw health is much more beneficial than defensive stats early in the game, due to their shielding, dmg-reduction and recuperation abilities...the added damage is just icing on the cake.

Most notably, this is true for:

, and to a lesser extend even tank and tank .

I say again however, that this is not these champions fault, but rather riots, for weakening the early game impact of defensive stats to the point where they are now.

I see, I've been using triple doran's on a certain mid laner (who im not going to name), used to use double on pre-rework maokai, and a few other champs.

I certainly hope they don't nerf it though, since there are downsides, and non-tank champs need to be able to stack doran's in certain matchups... and like you said it's Riots own fault from their "tank update".

I'm still curious if doran's ring being nerfed was actually brought up by riot, or just something you're speculating on?

MartensiticMay 26, 20171 votes

or just something you're speculating on?

I am not speculating about it. If you look at my posting name, you will see that I just joined this discussion, I didn't start it. (Hint: Posts by the one who opened the thread are always marked by a different background-color)

As far as I am concerned, I have not seen any information regarding a nerf of DR, and I do not expect them to nerf it, because it would negatively impact ALOT of AP midlaners as a side effect.

SucceedsawceMay 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I am not speculating about it. If you look at my posting name, you will see that I just joined this discussion, I didn't start it. (Hint: Posts by the one who opened the thread are always marked by a different background-color)

As far as I am concerned, I have not seen any information regarding a nerf of DR, and I do not expect them to nerf it, because it would negatively impact ALOT of AP midlaners as a side effect.

I realize you aren't the OP, but it sounded like you were agreeing with him/had some kind of inside scoop ;p

Likewise I agree that nerfing dorans would be very bad, but there is of course the possibility that they make it unique passive(s), and therefore unable to stack, or something along those lines. That way players could only buy one, rather than nerfing the item itself. Which would an awful change.

ErockandrollMay 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Abusing is the wrong word, because they are not "abusing" it...they merely make good use of the fact, that for some tanky champions mana-availability and raw health is much more beneficial than defensive stats early in the game, due to their shielding, dmg-reduction and recuperation abilities...the added damage is just icing on the cake.

Most notably, this is true for:

, and to a lesser extend even tank and tank .

I say again however, that this is not these champions fault, but rather riots, for weakening the early game impact of defensive stats to the point where they are now.

I think buy and Large, I think Riot wanted Tanks to rely more on their own abilities for Wave clear, and not just items such as Sunfire. So I'm kinda disappointed that they didn't go over their caster esk options. (Maybe they though ICB was enough)

Outside of ICB and Frozen Heart (Neither of which has a mana sustain mechanic), the only other caster item that's tanky is the Catalyst items. Though Righteous glory is a little slot inefficient for a solo lane tank in my opinion, and RoA and GLP, would be more of an AP Bruiser build than a full tank build. (Also useless on AD tanks)

Though I would disagree about the AP on Triple Rings simply being negligible. They help with the Tanks ability to clear wave, giving them more control in lane.

Oakleaf RangerMay 26, 20171 votes

I saw it brought by streamers and they also mentioned that it was brought up at MSI by the casters. Apparently Galio top with triple doran rings is seeing pro play. Which I think makes sense since he makes best use of the 3 doran rings while being the most effective against anyone who would try the same. The only champions who do this are AP tanks and since galio is particularly effective against magic damage he ended up standing at the top of all the other users.

Asayake 5150glowMay 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I saw it brought by streamers and they also mentioned that it was brought up at MSI by the casters. Apparently Galio top with triple doran rings is seeing pro play. Which I think makes sense since he makes best use of the 3 doran rings while being the most effective against anyone who would try the same. The only champions who do this are AP tanks and since galio is particularly effective against magic damage he ended up standing at the top of all the other users.

Galio's also got the best AP scales

Oakleaf RangerMay 28, 20171 votes

does he?

didn't know, but he does have that percent health damage to help cement his spot above all the other users as well.

Asayake 5150glowMay 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

does he?

didn't know, but he does have that percent health damage to help cement his spot above all the other users as well.

Yep, his AP scales are really good. 110% from a full Q, 70% on E, 70% on R.

Oakleaf RangerMay 28, 20171 votes

I also forgot to mention that no one was building him AP lol

So basically no one cared about his AP ratios even in solo que his most common and successful build has no AP items except maybe these item 3102 item 3027 item 3135

Usually just the void staff.

ZelorxonMay 26, 20171 votes

That feel when i invented the double dorans and told it to bjerg and various other pro players on stream and now it's LCS/nerf debate material but i'm stuck playing with retards that make me as hard as possible to win games i singlehandedly won for them and i get insulted/harassed by idiotic kids here on the boards after i gave them advices just because they feel entitled to do so.

FeelsGoodMan

joker bam bamMay 27, 20171 votes

Wtf?

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 26, 20171 votes

Buff the users mana pool and/or lower their mana costs. I don't want to go OOM after using one rotation of abilities when Fiora is able to spam her 20-40 mana cost Q.

2 possibility... u learn to manage ur mana or item 2033 . Btw she deserve a nerf.

BrascusMay 27, 20171 votes

I have to say, high mana cost champs feel so underwhelming. Anyone remember old poppy? Do you remember that Q damage, insane right? Well so was the mana cost and no one played her.

AtheosisXMay 27, 20171 votes

Especially when you have so many non-mana champs and all the new mana champs have really low mana costs.