Why can ADCs draintank better than Fiddlesticks?

Disulfiram·Jun 22, 2017·17 votes·1,287 views

No, seriously: Fiddle's W has short range, a CD, a mana cost, can be interrupted, and is a self root. Shouldn't it at least be as good as an ADC's draintanking, considering how much more does it cost?

(Please note that I don't think that Fiddle's W is too weak; I do think though that adcs have access to too much draintanking, which is an answer -albeit the wrong one imho- to this game having so much damage across the board that without this draintanking then even CC tanks would -and do!- solo 1-shoot carries).

25 Comments

Tobias BracknerJun 23, 20174 votes

idk, Fiddle's W is pretty garbage. His Silence, Fear, and Ult make up for it easily but I kind of hope they are able to do something to his Drain to make it feel better.

I'm not sure if it's a meta thing but it feels that if I get the Drain off they just engage and burst me down, even through the Silence and Fear.

My Waifu VanillaJun 23, 20174 votes

That's because Fiddle is made out of sticks and straws while also having some of the lowest ranges in the game. Fiddle is just a design failure imho because most of his damage is in his scalings, but he can't actually build AP or he gets blasted in the fact by any stray CC and dies horribly.

RalanrJun 23, 20173 votes

Fiddle has actually aged fairly decently in league. Not denying that his kit has problems, but it's more for difficulty in keeping up with how the meta shapes. Beyond that, his kit does work well with itself (unlike other older kits that lead to full VGU).

If Fiddles ever received a full VGU, it'd probably be approached like Warwick's where they keep they basics but update them to more modern standards (his silence would probably be no longer RNG for example).

My Waifu VanillaJun 23, 20174 votes

His kit as a whole (no numbers) is completely fine. The problem is the fact the numbers throughout his kit are veeeeeery off. He is as squishy as someone like Sona (without the luxury of having 2 rather decent health items being rushed without drawbacks item 2301 item 3107 ) while not having the mobility to get out if he gets caught. I would be fine with his whole short range bomb thing with the ult if he didn't get instantly deleted until Zhonya's Hourglass (considering he is arguably the only champion in the game that NEEDS it since Kennen/Morg use it as a luxury more than anything). Give him the Urgot treatment or something as at least a band-aid fix so that after the ult is successfully cast he gains some amount of DR that way the enemy team has to stop the channel instead of "eh let him channel and then blast him with Syndra ult when he comes out".

Also, Dark Wind isn't even that RNG anymore considering it will always bounce towards whoever you are draining. The only downside to that is the chances of you silencing half the enemy team goes down dramatically.

Tobias BracknerJun 23, 20172 votes

I wouldn't say design failure because I remember a time where Fiddle was a dirty bastard in the Jungle. It just seems like he hasn't been able to keep up.

Personally I blame Support Fiddlesticks.

PermabannedGarenJun 22, 20173 votes

{quoted}

No, seriously: Fiddle's W has short range, a CD, a mana cost, can be interrupted, and is a self root. Shouldn't it at least be as good as an ADC's draintanking, considering how much more does it cost?

(Please note that I don't think that Fiddle's W is too weak; I do think though that adcs have access to too much draintanking, which is an answer -albeit the wrong one imho- to this game having so much damage across the board that without this draintanking then even CC tanks would -and do!- solo 1-shoot carries).

I don't know, why does Fiddlesticks AOE silence entire teams better than ADCs?

Why does Fiddlesticks have much higher AOE DPS than ADCs?

DisulfiramJun 22, 20172 votes

I don't think that Fiddle is too weak; I do think though that adcs have access to too much draintanking, which is an answer -albeit the wrong one imho- to this game having so much damage across the board that without this draintanking then even CC tanks would -and do!- solo 1-shoot carries.

9Wly9oMl02Jun 23, 20172 votes

Lol, that name though xD

As a pharmacist, I can appreciate it.

DisulfiramJun 23, 20171 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface]

AhristocatsJun 22, 20172 votes

all of that are in fiddle's power budget

ADCS can get a better fiddle's draintanking with items while having other tools in their power budget

PermabannedGarenJun 22, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-06-22T21:27:01.198+0000)

all of that are in fiddle's power budget

ADCS can get a better fiddle's draintanking with items while having other tools in their power budget

Are you so delusional you believe the items champions are intended to build aren't included in their power budget?

AhristocatsJun 23, 20173 votes

delusional? i don't think so, this would requiere you to balance champions around items which has been done for some champions but not for everyone and hell not for adcs

they always end up using items that were not intended to be used by them like lethality recently

PermabannedGarenJun 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-23T06:12:34.494+0000)

delusional? i don't think so, this would requiere you to balance champions around items which has been done for some champions but not for everyone and hell not for adcs

Of course they are. They are balanced with the intention of taking a while to ramp up, but being very strong once built. Hence crit, and hence why balance problems arise when they can abuse itemization that lets them scale earlier, like with lethality, even if they end up being weaker once full build.

An ADC isn't able to lifesteal more than Fiddlesticks until late into the game, like five items including boots, barring maybe filthy bork rushers.

they always end up using items that were not intended to be used by them like lethality recently

Which ends up making them balance items, because they are using items that weren't intended to factor into their power budget, like what happened when Yasuo went with a bruiser build that had zero crit.

You're helping my point, not hurting it.

rtbf221651412Jun 23, 20173 votes

Shhhh having faster life steal with a high amount of damage is clearly worse than spell vamp. Kappa.

Cosmic WarperJun 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Shhhh having faster life steal with a high amount of damage is clearly worse than spell vamp. Kappa.

RIP spellvamp

Shuyin178Jun 22, 20172 votes

ADCs need weaker healing options. Right now they can survive assassinations because they just heal the damage being delt to them back, allowing them to not only live but recover pretty much all of the damage delt to them while the assassin is on cooldown. Cutting life steal off of items by 3-5% on EVERY life steal item will allow them to still sustain in lane and can recover HP in fights, but they won't be the most tilting thing to try killing when they are actually focused on.

SuperCosmicHoboJun 22, 20172 votes

Adcs do zap too much hp with Life steal.

My Waifu VanillaJun 23, 20173 votes

I'd rather just see Lifesteal as a whole get dumpstered so it would actually be worth it to take Warlord's Bloodlust on anyone not named Jhin. As it stands now, every ADC gets the entire party's cake and can eat it aswell since they get to take Fervor AND still heal for 1/4 their health an auto on crits due to BoRK or Death's Dance being rushed on over half the ADC roster. Another problem is the fact that Vamp Scepter+either Doran's means that most damage in laning phase (outside of 100-0 all-ins) means absolutely nothing for a grand total of 1350 total gold...when you start with 500.

CØulrophobiaJun 23, 20172 votes

Here is an idea. Cut fiddles damage on W in half. Then allow him to move while casting it. Bam instantly get a better champion.

420 gramsJun 22, 20171 votes

Because most adcs don't have cc like fiddle?

DisulfiramJun 22, 20171 votes

They have mobility though. And steroids. And burst.

Fiddle has a very powerful ult, and while it's sad that the rest of his kit has to be quite weak to compensate that, I think that he should at least be on par with the rest of the roster in the one aspect which is his thing: draintanking.

TóxicoChicoGuapoJun 23, 20171 votes

he shouldn't be able to out draintank an adc because his damage is done over 5 seconds. an adc has no cooldown on their auto attacks and after zerks/zeal item they can attack more often than once per second. fiddles W has a massive base damage. probably the highest single base damage of a basic ability in the entire game. but its done over 5 seconds. if you made it any higher his jungle clear would be insane and his ability to just walk up to someone and press W would be fucking stupid. especially towards anyone who ISNT an adc.

so no, he shouldn't. he's fine. could use a rework, but he's fine balance wise imo. he has very very strong tools in his ultimate and point and click fear AND silence that btw, can silence multiple people and re apply itself if for some reason it happens to bounce back.

I think he's a dated champion who needs a mini rework and minor visual update.

DisulfiramJun 23, 20171 votes

I too don't think that Fiddle is too weak; I do think though that adcs have access to too much draintanking, which is an answer -albeit the wrong one imho- to this game having so much damage across the board that without this draintanking then even CC tanks would -and do!- solo 1-shoot carries.

Yaśuo MainJun 23, 20171 votes

Wait, so you are arguing that a late game ADC which is gonna draintank with life steal shouldn't beat fiddlesticks?

BakedLotionJun 23, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yaśuo Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Za9Et5lj,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-06-23T13:47:23.243+0000)

Wait, so you are arguing that a late game ADC which is gonna draintank with life steal shouldn't beat fiddlesticks?

In a perfect world, the ADC should have to break the tether then re-engage so they don't get out-traded. But it's not, because the ADC instakills the fiddle before the third ticks goes off