Ahri's Charm Is About the Only Thing That Requires Skill in Her Kit

Steel Blossom··28 votes·2,097 views

I don't know why Riot has been nerfing her E over and over again, when her problems clearly come from her overloaded Q and her cancerous ult. Seriously, in a lane where 75% of the champions have to throw skillshots at each other, having huge bonus MS tacked onto your bread and butter damage spell is seriously unhealthy. Combine that with her ult, she's basically untouchable whether she lands her E or not. Maybe it's just me being blind and stupid, but I don't exactly see any complaints about Ahri's E; it's usually her stupid safety that really ticks people off, and her E is really not the main cause of that problems. And we're still going after her E, not her Q, or her R....? [zombie-brand-mindblown]

47 Comments

WalkingInACircle8 votes

Her safety is her only actual advantage, her mobility more specifically. It is the tool Ahri leverages to beat you. So naturally its what people whine about.

Oh, and its actually a pretty small move speed boost. It declines very rapidly. Ahri gets about 200 units of extra distance from it, half a flash. You can try it in a custom if you want.

Steel Blossom2 votes

When you think about it, though, the whole concept of mobile mages is kinda stupid. Mages have range, DPS, burst, CC, and occasionally item 3157 for those LCS baits. When you give them Ahri level mobility on top of everything that they already have, it isn't exactly surprising that we'll get unhealthy champions that are huge pains in the ass to balance.

Edit: that movespeed basically guarantees a dodged skillshot, so I'd say that it's pretty big.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Ahri's poke range is medium, her DPS/Burst range is 550 at maximum due to needing W/Ult, Charm is the only defense she has, Zhonya's should be removed.

La Barbotte1 votes

exept shes considered with leblanc as assassins

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Ahri is a mage. That's what she was reclassified in to at 5.2

Professor Ward5 votes

Youre wasting your time, go get someone who has never played league, put them on ahri and see how "skill-less" she is. Waste of time shitpost is shitty waste of time.

Steel Blossom2 votes

You can also do the same with Annie . Does she take skill? It's like saying that you being able to shit on beginner Fizz bot makes him any less cancer.

SSuperduperFlyy1 votes

If she's so broken why aren't you playing her?

Champion skill doesn't really matter when it comes to a champ being broken or not; you play whoever you can win with, and if its annie then great. It doesn't meant I've got more skill... I just know what is the easiest way to win (The only way to climb is through winning, so why not win an easy way).

Steel Blossom1 votes

Broken =/= to OP. Broken, at least to me, means that some aspects of a champion is difficult/impossible to balance with just number changes. Also, I'm not a cowardly %%%%, so I don't play poke/kite champs.

SSuperduperFlyy1 votes

Good point, I guess you proved me wrong tips hat

mason water3 votes

arhi is actually pretty easy to play compared to other mages, i think you think arhi is something like shaco level difficulty, or yasuo even.

Gunpoint3 votes

{quoted}

Youre wasting your time, go get someone who has never played league, put them on ahri and see how "skill-less" she is. Waste of time shitpost is shitty waste of time.

Dude, when I first started playing league I sucked at playing amumu. All you have to do as amumu is literally walk near people. First time league players, if they have no experience with mobas, will always be bad with any champion.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

Youre wasting your time, go get someone who has never played league, put them on ahri and see how "skill-less" she is. Waste of time shitpost is shitty waste of time.

Skillshots=/=difficulty. Ryze was mostly point and click but he was still very difficult to properly play. An inexperienced Ahri is still likely to win a little more than half the time, where as an inexperienced Ryze is nearly a guaranteed win for the opposing team.

Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZXtqq9oA,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2016-02-17T20:10:06.738+0000)

Skillshots=/=difficulty. Ryze was mostly point and click but he was still very difficult to properly play. An inexperienced Ahri is still likely to win a little more than half the time, where as an inexperienced Ryze is nearly a guaranteed win for the opposing team.

Comparing Ahri to Ryze to make her seem easy doesn't seem entirely fair. Obviously it's easier to win with Ahri as a new player than it is with Ryze because a) Ryze is among the hardest champions in the game and b) Ryze is horrendous right now. You could make pretty much any champion look very easy compared to Ryze, especially if using win rate by games played as evidence.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Ahri is particularly challenging to play, but she's flat out stronger than Ryze and he's a huge outlier in terms of both difficulty and skillshot reliance. One champion who isn't skillshot-reliant being hard doesn't mean that skillshots aren't relevant to difficulty level and one champion being harder than a champion doesn't mean they're easy. Ahri is pretty middle of the pack in terms of how hard she is.

Saianna4 votes

Do you seriously believe Riot cares?

They already made changes, so.. You are too late.

(Yes, i know it's in PBE. And I know Riot won't redo their work. They don't have balls to admit msitake)

ValyrianBlade3 votes

Ahri has safety, but that's it.

She has no damage.

Malphite literally has more base damage + AP scaling damage in his kit than Ahri (assuming he makes a few empowered auto attacks and Ahri doesn't get all 3 ultimate charge damages off on the same opponent, which is realistic in both cases given their playstyles).

I would strongly prefer a revert to her pre-DFG-removal-compensation rework in 5.2... but we all know Riot doesn't do that kind of stuff.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

She has no damage.

Uh what? she has huge damage... including True Damage.

What Ahri is missing is not damage, she is missing range, that is her balancing point.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

By no damage, I mean compared to other AP damage dealing champions in their burst.

Ahri has no damage and I stand by that comment. Ahri's R is used for repositioning and safety. If Ahri is getting all 3 R charges off on you offensively, you're playing wrong. If she gets 2 of them on you offensively, she's playing well - so let's go with that. Her W likewise should be hitting minions instead of her target with the additional foxfires, if all 3 hit you you're playing it wrong.

So, with that in mind, let's take the base damage + scaling damage of the full combo of Ahri versus a few other AP champions at level 6 (I'm pretty sure it only goes downhill from there):

Ahri, LeBlanc, Lux, Annie, Malphite

First, think for a moment about what you expect out of this. Annie has low range and mobility, so she should clearly have the highest damage (but not by too much since she still has a shield and a great stun). Lux lacks mobility but has huge range to make up for that, then she has three utility abilities (snare/slow/shield) versus Ahri's two movement abilities so she should have less damage. Malphite is a tank and should have the least damage. LeBlanc has about as much mobility as Ahri and a hard CC ability so she should have almost identical damage. I.e. Annie > Ahri = LeBlanc > Lux > Malphite

Ahri: Base: 330 Magic Scaling: 185% AP True: 90 + 35% AP Totals: 420 + 210%

Annie: (assuming 1 enemy auto and 2 seconds for Tibbers AOE, i.e. the minimum if she hits a stun). Base: 455 Magic: 305% AP

Lux: (assuming only 1 proc of her passive, which is proc'd not only by auto attacks but also her ultimate) Base: 568 Magic: 225% AP

LeBlanc: (assuming she's maxing W for the waveclear instead of Q which would be even more damage) Base: 475 if she misses the E, 515 if she hits it but loses range, 555 if she hits it fully Magic: 260% AP if she misses E, 310% AP if she hits it but loses raneg, 360% if she hits it fully

Malphite: Base: 430 + 15 per enhanced auto attack (not counting the auto attack damage itself since anyone could auto), so at 3 autos (easy thanks to slow and knockup of ult) that's 475 Magic: 210% AP

So what are the results? Ahri's base damage is the lowest of the bunch: Ahri < Annie < Malphite < LeBlanc < Lux 420 < 455 < 475 < 475 to 575 < 568

Ahri's scaling damage is basically lowest of the bunch: Malphite ~= Ahri < Lux < Annie < LeBlanc 210% ~= 210% with 35% of that as True < 225% < 305% < 260% to 360%

So overall, all 4 champions have more damage than Ahri. Notice that I've made very fair assumptions for each champion's level 6 all-in combo.

Simply put, the only champion that Ahri can outscale damage-wise is Malphite and even that requires a large chunk of MR on her opponent after resistances thanks to Malphite's higher base damage.

Her base damages are pitifully low compared to Lux and LeBlanc, two champions that offer similar levels of utility (LeBlanc literally has the same amount of CC, probably better mobility with W and R, and a stealth passive in lieu of the MS boost, Lux has gigantic range alongside a snare, slow + vision, and a shield). Her scaling damage is only slightly lower than them, but pitifully low compared to an AP champion that has a bit less utility (although still potentially an instant AOE stun and a shield...) (Annie).

If you think my analysis is unfair choosing these champions (I do promise I only had an idea of the results beforehand, I didn't check every champion and come back with the best results. I picked champions I thought would be a fair comparison and did it as I typed) feel free to look up any other AP mid laner and compare the base and scaling damages and come back and let me know.

Ahri has no damage in her all-in compared to other AP mid laners. She may be safe in lane, but whoever she is playing against is safe in lane as well by default. She needs to poke you about 6-8 times with her Q on both directions before she has you low enough to all-in 1v1. If you're dying in lane 1v1 to an Ahri, you're not only playing wrong (as you've not dodged even 1 Q since she'd be OOM otherwise) but also playing too risky as you should have recalled after she poked you down to under 50% health.

LVL 5 PORO3 votes

Anyone that complains about Ahri is just a trash tier player. Do you know why no one cares about her in higher elo? Because you can literally dodge everything in her kit, all it requires is a brain.

Ruin Lance1 votes

dodges her w wait that doesn't make sense dodges her ult wait that doesn't make sense

Nidalee SO NYAAA3 votes

If she uses her ult to all in then blow her up. If she ults and misses charm on someone like Diana she's dead

LVL 5 PORO2 votes

Her w and ult can only hit if she has vision of you, if you walk into a bush neither of them will land. But once again, you actually need a brain to know and utilize that information.

Ruin Lance1 votes

yeah, because she definitely won't get vision of you if you try to attack her in a bush. then again, you actually need a brain to know and utilize that information. see, i can play the downvote game too.

LVL 5 PORO2 votes

That doesn't change the fact that you're bad and don't know how to play. You're not supposed to attack her from the bush, you're supposed to kite her INTO the bush, you half-wit. This is obviously too complex for you, so I'll stop now.

Ruin Lance1 votes

"kite her into the bush" and if she actually has a properly functioning brain she definitely won't try to q, e, or ward the bush!

ohhh, no wonder you sound so dumb, it's because you're an ahri main. too bad to admit that she's op so you have to make insecure comments like these lol. don't worry i understand, i'll leave you alone.

LVL 5 PORO2 votes

"insecure comments" everything I stated was a 100% proven fact. Do I need to tell you how to play in every scenario? Use your nonexistent brain. How are people like you still alive when they are so mentally retarded. You're bitching about a champion that can have 100% of their kit nullified. Its not that shes op, youre just bad.

Ruin Lance1 votes

i know how to fight ahri, but it doesn't change that she's op. clearly you're just whining just for a little boost to your self-esteem. "my champ is fair and balanced and takes lots of skill! there we go, i feel a little bit better about myself now." you also say that no one cares about ahri in high elo, but in fact she's one of the safest champions in the game with extremely good kiting ability ALSO with extremely good all-in potential against non-counters. go on and keep telling me that your main isn't good. that's why she has nearly a 20% play rate and a 54% win rate, right? want to also tell me that lee sin does no damage? and then not to mention you're telling me that i'm bad at the game without having seen me even play, and the icing on the cake is you're unranked. smh

LVL 5 PORO2 votes
  1. "i know how to fight ahri" knows nothing about her w and ult.
  2. "but it doesn't change that she's op" she isn't. You're just bad. You have no evidence that she is.
  3. "clearly you're just whining just for a little boost to your self-esteem." you're the one that responded to me, cry baby.
  4. "my champ is fair and balanced and takes lots of skill! there we go, i feel a little bit better about myself now." I never said that. lul.
  5. "no one cares about ahri in high elo" correct, I dont see anyone above gold complaining about Ahri because they know how to play against her. Unlike yourself.
  6. "you're telling me that i'm bad at the game without having seen me even play" I dont need to see you play when you sound and are this stupid. Stupid people cant be taken seriously because their ignorance prevents them from being correct about anything.
Ruin Lance1 votes

confirmed troll. saying i know nothing about her w and ult for no reason, and then trying to imply that "caring" and "complaining" are the same thing, then proceeding to call me ignorant. because you aren't ignorant, for ignoring the fact that it's pretty common knowledge that ahri IS op. why do you think no one complains about ahri? because she's been like that for a VERY long time, and she's not game-breakingly op. rather, she's just too strong. there's no real trade off for her overloaded kit besides her mana costs, which only really matter early game. there's your proof, though i know you'll try to come up with some bs response telling me about how "ignorant" i am, despite the obvious hypocrisy.

LVL 5 PORO2 votes

"confirmed troll." I'm a troll because I use logic and am 100% correct? Ok then. "why do you think no one complains about ahri?" People complain about Ahri, I never said they didn't. Its just that the ones that do, are low elo baddies, like yourself. "there's your proof" you've given no proof other than your opinion. confirmed troll and idiot.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. This is why you cant take stupid people seriously, they make is so easy.

Ruin Lance1 votes

she's just too strong. there's no real trade off for her overloaded kit besides her mana costs, which only really matter early game.

this is not an opinion, dimwit. i'm done here lmao

LVL 5 PORO1 votes
  1. "she's just too strong." that is an opinion.

  2. "there's no real trade off for her overloaded kit besides her mana costs, which only really matter early game."

She has terrible mana cost and she is incredibly squishy. If she gets hit with any cc, she is dead, which happens very often because she has low-range. Also, her kit requires that you be GOOD, if she misses any of her spells she isnt going to kill anyone. Even if she does land all her spells on a tanky target she has to kite them for 3-4 rotations before they die, so her damage is lackluster unless she is ahead. There is her weakness. Fkn moron.

Everything you have said has been complete bs and you obviously know jack-shit. You should be embarrassed to be this stupid. The next time you open your mouth you better research you fkn imbecile.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

ults into melee range for a point blank charm, q, w and ults away before the charm runs out.

much skill.

Steel Blossom3 votes

Eh, at least you can step to the side as she flies toward you, versus, say, I dunno, Annie's entire combo, lol.

invisiblecat12 votes

OMG finally someone sees that Ahri isn't as bad compared to annie, zed, Jax, Morg, and Lux

YCitizenSnipsY3 votes

With that name I imagine your quite the authority on champions that require no mechanical skill lol.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

With that name I imagine your quite the authority on champions that require no mechanical skill lol.

oh, im not saying garen is mechanical difficult to play. but lets not pretend, ahri is any harder to pull off. skillshots dont mean a lot, when you have the unrestricted mobility to bring yourself always into a position where they land.

1000angrybees2 votes

Honestly, Ahri's safety compared to other champions more problematic tendencies doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Safety on a champ that requires draining resources to get an MS boost seems relatively minor to a champ that can delete me without retaliation, a champ with basically resourceless mobility and/or poke, or a champ with ridiculous snowball mechanics that is extremely difficult to prevent from happening.

She also has the second lowest movespeed tier- She isn't exactly speedy without any of this.

Gunpoint1 votes

Even that is just a normal ass skillshot that really isn't hard to land at all.

invisiblecat11 votes

It is about as hard to dodge as a Blitz hook, and we all know how difficult it can be to dodge a hook

iamleburk1 votes

pretty sure the projectile speed is much slower than a blitz hook. It's closer to a zyra snare imo

Arhkadian1 votes

I'll say the same thing i've been saying since they added the ms bonus on her q, its stupid, it doesnt work with her kit, its not balanced, and the kiss of death was better for her balance and her theme. or you know, we could just have release ahri back. that would be amazing @_@

Spoofghoul1 votes

ahri is a generalist and is also very safe where have we seen this before or have we the unseen generalist is the deadliest

anyway lee, zed, ziggs are some other generalists and whenever they are strong people complain Its because they can do almost everyhting splitpush waveclear duel assassinate. They cant all do literally everything but they can do most stuff and do it good enough often with lots of safety due to having mobility or huge range

Its more a problem with these champions being good at too many things

In ahri's case what ticks me off isnt just her safety but also her sustain and low manacost, yea they are not fiora low but whenever i see one in lane they spam quite a bit yet dont really go low on mana easymode waveclear poke with true damage on low manacosts is annoying af and whenever you then poke her she jsut regens with her pseudo lifesteal.

where did we see this before ooh yea zed ofc easymode waveclear & poke which never ends with almost no cost attached. and with huge mobility for safety.

somethigns gotta go the movespeed needs to be toned down like mayeb only if it hits a champion or big minion/monster so its a bit more conditional. And maybe a very small increase in the manacost on her wavclear like + 10 or something so its a bit harder to easymode to level 6 and then be even more safe.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Ahri's mana costs aren't that low. Q scales from 65 to 85, which is low in comparison to other mids. Ahri's base mana pool only allows for 5 casts of Q with no regen factored it. The reason why you think her costs are low are due to A) Meditation B) Mana Regen Yellows C) Mana Gain from leveling up. I dunno how popular they are to other Ahri's but I run Meditation and MP5 yellows and I rarely run out of mana while laning.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Was going to comment the same thing.

Ahri can only afford 1 Q per wave of minions without going too close to OOM to be unable to cast her full combo. Ahri's definitely do not spam. They might be able to afford more than just the 1 Q per wave (maybe 3 per 2 waves at most?) with the extra mana options you've listed, but her mana costs are definitely not low.

They might look lower than other mid laners, but her base mana and mana regen are both lower as well, aren't they?

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Her Mana Regen/base is definitely lower than most considering she wasn't hit with the Mana Regen/base buff a lot of other mages/supports got.

Weathered1 votes

Because it was a 2 second attract (not stun or root) that could interrupt dash moves mid dash and had a very good missile speed.

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