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Talon is Currently Able to Cast R Mid-Q

Steel Blossom··41 votes·4,107 views

What he can do is basically throw out his W, Q to you, and ult while he's still in the air. This results not only in the first part of his ult hitting you, but also it's second part immediately converging to you. Furthermore, since his Q resets his auto, this all result in a pretty reliable combo to proc his passive.

Now, I've been a Talon onetrick since S3, so I'm not saying this to complain about this champion being OP. Because he's utter shit IMO. But the point is, I don't know if this is intended, so it would be really sweet if a Rioter could clarify whether or not this will be fixed in the future. I'd rather just have this taken out of the game than to lose it AFTER getting used to the combo. Thanks in advance.

Edit: Be cool if there were a way to wave this in Rito's face once or a twice. Simple question with a yes or no question should be pretty easily answered.

Edit 2: 9 hours in, no official reply on what's potentially a bug report. I now want a refund of every single Riot Point ever purchased.

84 Comments

Wukong Airlines14 votes

Yeah I been testing Talon. and the reason why you can use R mid Q is because you can use R mid-air-anything. You can E and R mid air so you're less noticeable but m.ost people don't even do that trick and think his whole kit becomes unusable midair.

But as a Talon main I don't think Talon is broken nor very strong at all, but definitely not Weak. There are many other champs that can better utilize Lethality buffs in faster combos for faster kills and laningQuinn Zed Khazix Rengar LeeSin MasterYi yea trust me Lethality Yi works Riven MonkeyKing Pantheon Jayce MissFortune , but the problem with people is how frustrating it is to play vs Talon and how uncaughtable he can be sometimes, many never bothered to learn his kit as well but they'd rather rant to compensate for their lack of knowledge.

Rock MD12 votes

-54% winrate -"utter shit"

Steel Blossom11 votes

It's a personal opinion. I just feel that he doesn't handle as well as old Talon. That's also not the focus of this thing...

ReZisT Lust5 votes

I feel the rengar is shit too lol

AmazoX11 votes

Incoming smarta$$ comments about how Talon has 70% WR on KR Server.

Sraeg20136 votes

Well, if he would have such a winrate, then I'd raise my suspicions.

Does he?

Zenthon Prime3 votes

It's not 70%, but it's still really high at ~55% with a nearly 10% pickrate. Make no mistake: Talon is overpowered right now.

Granted, I don't really think this combo is the problem, more of the fact that all of Talon's items are broken as hell atm.

Sraeg20132 votes

Actually he was like that even before lethality was buffed. He seen a huge hit initially, but climbed to his pre-assassin update stats in a matter of a week.

Frankly he's doing better now, than he had in the past 3 years.

Side note: Rake's visuals of the first part of the spell are fucking atrocious. Like a whole length shorter than the damage hitbox.

junglerboy161 votes

Side note: Rake's visuals of the first part of the spell are fucking atrocious. Like a whole length shorter than the damage hitbox.

Agree with you there, it's very annoying trying to learn how to dodge it (especially since I don't see him often and I tend to forget about it until I've gotten hit a few times in game XD)

Automated Riven1 votes

you mean walking sideways? works like a charm every time. Heck most of the time with talons blades you can just walk like 2 steps back to out range them

junglerboy161 votes

Well there's walking sideways and there's standing outside of his range (usually what works better when you're a ranged vs a melee).

Also they come out very fast, so even if you wanted to sidestep and can avoid the return damage, you still take the initial hit.

Automated Riven1 votes

the initial damage is pretty meh tho. in laning phase you pretty much regen all your health while its on cd

Unlucky475 votes

For someone that one tricks talon it's weird you think he's shit when he can cheese people so hard in lane at level 2 or 3

Steel Blossom4 votes

"Cheese" by definition means catching people off guard, which relies on your enemies being bad. I don't like my enemies having a say in whether or not I kill them.

Unlucky472 votes

well no one is going to be on guard to be 100-0ed by an assassin that's considered weak at level 2.

Steel Blossom3 votes

No one is going to be on guard. Assuming no one has played against a recently reworked champion. Again, I don't want to base my successes off my opponents being clinically retarded.

Unlucky475 votes

I'm sorry it's retarded to think someone will not 100 to 0 you at level 2? What's retarded is that he can do that much damage.

Steel Blossom2 votes

If you are EVER slow and unaware enough to be hit by the return of his W, you deserve to die 20 times over.

Unlucky472 votes

why do you people think it's slow? Because it's slower than it used to be? If the talon throws it out with you in the center after he q's into you theres no way you're dodging that without burning flash or using a movement ability. that's kind of how talon worked in the first place right?

Steel Blossom1 votes

One, he's not going to 100-0 you if he uses a ranged Q. Two, you should rarely be in range for his ranged Q. Third, his Q has an animation so just throw your CC at him the moment he starts jumping. If someone dashes to you, it's basically a free skillshot for you to hit. Finally, if you really are that much of a fuckup and let him jump onto u after hitting one W, just walk behind him. His base movespeed is a pathetic 335 now, plus he would usually be preemptively walking forward to stick to you.

Automated Riven2 votes

its harder to die to talon level 2 then to live. you have to either be trying to die or literally not paying attention to the game. In fact dying to an unfed talon in lane pretty much means you werent paying attention.

Troll for Trump3 votes

well no one is going to be on guard to be 100-0ed by an assassin that's considered weak at level 2.

.

For someone that one tricks talon it's weird you think he's shit when he can cheese people so hard in lane at level 2 or 3

Pick one. You can't be aware of the cheese to the point that you complain about it while saying people think he's weak at lvl 2.

They gutted Talon's lane dominance. He doesn't win lane anymore. It's "go even and roam 24/7." That's what they've pigeonholed him into, cutting out one of his basic abilities for something dedicated to roaming. The lvl 2 cheese is an exception to this. And it only works on squishy, dumb,players. Tbh it's only consistently successful in Korea, because everyone ends up being aggressive. People in NA are often defensive, or at least passive, so you end up having to flash ignite meleecritQ to get the kill, which, if it doesn't kill the target, is hella risky.

If you play Talon top, the lvl 2 cheese prob isn't going to happen.

Unlucky472 votes

People do think he's weak at level 2. A large majority of people. Because you guys on the boards have done nothing but say talon is trash for months. Gutted talon's lane dominance? Gutted? No champion can kill someone at level 2 instantly and be considered gutted. You know who got gutted? Azir. Vladimir. Kindred. These champions got gutted to the point where they are weak picks. Talon isn't a weak pick.

Troll for Trump1 votes

No... they don't. People don't think he's weak level 2. He's weak early, which is true. He's weak in lane, which is true. He has the lvl 2 cheese. When people say he's weak, it's because he has no lane presence at all. He still doesn't. Riot gutted that for his roaming. They acknowledge the cheese, but the cheese isn't lane presence. Trynd's lvl 2 cheese doesn't give him any more pressure in lane.

It is actually similar to trynd. People all know he has the lvl 2 cheese, and people know he's weak and harassed early. The "lvl 2 cheese" overrides the weak early; he's generally weak early, but just be aware of the lvl 2 cheese.

They gutted. His. Lane dominance.

For roaming.

Yes, Talon got his lane dominance. Gutted.

If you want to win lane, Talon is a horrible pick for it. One of the worst picks for it.

Yes, champs that can kill people at lvl 2 virtually instantly can be gutted. Tryndamere is gutted because he's a toxic champion, and he still lvl 2 cheeses consistently.

macromite1 votes

Pick one. You can't be aware of the cheese to the point that you complain about it while saying people think he's weak at lvl 2.

He doesn't need to pick one. People doesn't imply that he is among them, rather it implies that he is not among the people that think he is weak at level two. and he recognizes the cheese, which further emphasizes his position on the matter.

Troll for Trump1 votes

If you recognize the cheese, you can't recognize it as being weak lvl 2. Most people recognize the lvl 2 cheese.

macromite1 votes

irrelevant.

Troll for Trump1 votes

It might have helped if your original comment had proper grammar..

macromite1 votes

It does, maybe it would help if you could read.

Troll for Trump1 votes

k

Sire Hippington1 votes

If they consider him weak at 2, it's their god damn own fault. People here 'bad earlygame/lane' and think they have a freepass, butt power curves and spikes are simply more nuaced than that. It's also how most Yasuo's get fed - 'He's a hypercarry, his early is supposed to be weak', yea well, not his first few levels. nor the lvl 6 if he gets the knockup for the ult. Same also with kassa, kassasdin's first 3 level are amongst the strongest in the game, he has 3damage sills that all have high rank 1 base damage, they just have a poor scaleing with ranks so he drops post 3 till he gets some items.

So yea, if people die to a early level 'cheese' of a champ that supposedly has a bad early, when it's their own ignorance that gets them killed.

Unlucky471 votes

You see the difference between yasuo and kassadin and talon, is that yas and kass don't instantly kill people with 2 abilities and ignite. They usually have to poke people to half first and then they go in while talon just says "Oh a full health oppenent and I've got 20 ad let me just do nearly 700 damage real quick"

Sire Hippington1 votes

With 20ad, it's actually ~557(and evt another 22 from TLD) damage, asumeing he gets both W hits, AAs, Qs in melee and AAs again, which really begs the question on why he was allowed to get in melee range aswell as hitting both Ws which is quite avoidable...Also, with 20 bonus ad, he won't have the lethality to fully pirce the armor at that point, so the damage further is reduced. That's not enough damage to 100-0.

So if talon really gets you 100-0, you need to get into melee range, eat all he has, and probably take some aditional AAs aswell while beeing a squishy. And again, WHY do you get that close to talon at lvl 2 if you are a squishy???

And yes, Yasuo has less burst, but he has hard cc and enough mobillity to actually stick on a target and actually take it doen 100-0 in an extendet trade. Kassa needs lvl 3 to acces his burst, but has more reliable poke and still good burst at that point.

But anyway, it doesn't matter wether he has a stronger spike than them or not, the thing is that all 3 genrally have a weak earlygame but get a strong spike in a specific level range where you need to approach them carefully, and if you don't respect that you die faster than you think.

Automated Riven1 votes

you arent counting ignite. and your assuming that the enemy laner took no early minion damage due to harrassing talon and didnt ever get hit by an e thrown out by talon earlier. 100-0 cheese is cheese because its usually before the enemy eats a pot to sustain up and so its more like 75-80% to 0% that being said its still stupidly hard to actually get cheesed in this manor.

NineTailedMystic6 votes

I don't like my enemies having a say in whether or not I kill them.

Is that not the point of counterplay?

Steel Blossom2 votes

Counterplay can come in many forms; direct and mechanical outplay is only one of the many. I've had many instances of people shutting me down before I can gain access to my whole kit, others out-rotate me so much that I can never catch out a lone backliner, and some who straight up towerhug as a team until my damage falls off from the lack of a snowball.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

I've always seen it as Counterplay and Game Knowledge. Counterplay is basically your micro. What can you do when you fight a champion. Game Knowledge is basically your macro between itemization, rotation, and grouping.

The Assassin Update's main purpose was to give Assassins counterplay, or the ability for the enemy to fight back and/or escape.

Steel Blossom2 votes

So, according to what you're saying, ranged champions in top lane have no counterplay. Because regardless of how a melee plays, they're going to need jungle pressure, which is game knowledge.

Wimbledofy1 votes

well there is no counterplay to the harass. But there is counterplay if you decide to all in the ranged champion because generally they are weaker. Unless they are playing Quinn, then there really is no counterplay. And no, jungle pressure doesn't really count as counterplay.

Steel Blossom1 votes

How are you going to all-in the ranged champion if you have no innate mobility?

Wimbledofy1 votes

lot of melee champs have mobility, others have cc. Also most melees have higher base movement speed. If you don't got this stuff then you're just unlucky I guess and don't get to do anything.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Pretty much. It's definitely not counterplay, having to wait for you jungler. Some melees can handle Ranged champions like Irelia and Renekton, some have an option or two like Darius, but most melees really just can't deal with Ranged top laners without the Ranged severely misplaying.

Automated Riven1 votes

i think there are another list of champions that handle them ok after the first back or level six. usually ranged champions on counter for the first 5 or so levels. after that its gets closer to being a skill matchup.

TyrekGoldenspear4 votes

:O

runs to perfect the technique in practice tool.

Steel Blossom3 votes

It's not really OP, just better than your other options. You still have to get within 550 range of the enemy backline with 335 base movespeed and then do an dash with animation.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Yeah I know, but think of how cool it looks.

Steel Blossom2 votes

Ur R blades go in and out over the course of your Q animation, so it's actually pretty subtle lol

Automated Riven1 votes

your not doing it right then. you shouldnt be reactivating r with your q.

Steel Blossom1 votes

It's not reactivating my R with my Q. It's Q'ing and then throwing out R as you dash.

Automated Riven1 votes

sorry i mistyped. you should almost never instant cancel your ult after using that combo.

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