I think this on-hit Meta nightmare of 
and 
could be stopped if we just made 
% damage return work with on-hits too, at least we could "control" them a bit, because right now they are really hard to counter and tbh, thornmail sucks, with this it could have a purpose on the meta... at least.
zecastar1 votesSounds like you'd get 1 shot if any CC hits though. For that to be a viable build, you'd have to be either massively ahead or in a cleanup role.
Cherysse1 votessure... massively ahead? because the champs that use this build don't go tanky at all
Late game it is a nightmare.
And if they go ahead it becomes too hard to control them even if they get full focus.
But yeah, justify the OP item synergy.
I hope someday you see a 
with this.
67chrome1 votesI think this on-hit Meta nightmare of
Thornmail is admittedly a pretty terribly designed item though: it promises the fantasy of standing still, getting repeatedly hit in the face, and then killing your opponent anyways by directing all their damage back to them.
Not many things make a Yi running up to a target and right-clicking them, managing to dodge a CC skill with alpha, and then beating their face seem extremely fair by comparison: but Thornmail is one of those things.
Would be much better if Riot just tonned down Rageblade so it's not an amazing buy on everyone and gave AP itemization a love-tap to put it in line with where ADC and bruiser itemization is at the moment.
Cherysse1 votesTrue, but right now it is a sh-t tier item, it needs a buff in general, because right now it is not useful, you just feel you are buying 100 raw armor because the passive sucks unless u are Rammus, and still... Right now I feel Thornmail could be more oriented to damage AS champs, but once again most of their damage is magical, thornmail scales with armor and on the top, it deals magic damage, so I feel these changes could be good in terms of counter building, because right now I don't believe Rageblade will be touched once again, and Im kinda ok with it, but when it comes to counter these champs, there is almost nothing u can do but CC them to death, if you are able to do so.
67chrome1 votesTrue, but right now it is a sh-t tier item, it needs a buff in general, because right now it is not useful, you just feel you are buying 100 raw armor because the passive sucks unless u are Rammus, and still...
With doing math on Thornmail I'm pretty sure it's issue is more in the perception vs. reality realm than anything else.
Everyone expects it to net you AFK kills but it doesn't. Not because Thornmail is weak, but because that would be stupidly OP if it actually did net AFK kills.
It's worth noting that Thornmail reflects damage taken prior to damage taken being mitigated by armor, %damage reduction, damage absorption, blinds, dodge, or anything else that reduces AA damage. As 100 armor means 50% damage reduction, 1/2 damage taken, or x2 defense: you're generally reflecting a pretty substantial % of the damage directed your way, much more than Thornmail's tooltip lets on.
Also: with Thornmail's current incarnation, it's objectively better than when it reflected 30% damage. Comparing realistic armor and realistic AD values, it hasn't shifted it's return damage in the face of champions like Riven that just build pure AD at all. It has however gotten worse at countering critical-hits and sheen procs, but better at dealing with on-hit effects. OK vs. a wide range of champions due to offering a decent response to on-hit effects makes thornmail a better item overall over just punishing crit-stackers, as it brings something fairly useful against a wide range of top-lane picks: as well as fairly consistant reflected damage vs. certain crit and on-hit champions like Vayne.
Furthermore: it's worth considering what's a realistic gold value of Thonrmail's passive and what it can accomplish in that space over being disappointed it doesn't net AFK kills. Thornmail's passive costs 350 gold based on Chain Vest's pricetag.
In that space: Thornmail shuts down any life-steal used against it completely. Due in large part from reflecting damage prior to that reflected damage being mitigated, it's extremely difficult to amass the amount of life-steal necessary to out-heal thornmail, and even when you do: you can't really notice any benefit from life steal in that case. Life steal negates thornmail and thornmail negates life-steal, removing thorns and life steal from the equation on both parties.
Thornmail also does offer a lot of power vs. jungle monsters, where you'll reflect over 40% of their damage back to them considering just Thornmail and base armor plus at least 25 additional magic damage from the armor-to-damage portion. Pretty handy vs. hard-hitting mobs like Dragon and Baron, especially later in the game if you're trying to sneak one of those out from under the enemy team while other members run distraction.
And Thornmail makes you fairly unappealing to focus, which can be useful for a tank that want's some weight to push around with footsies and zone-control, or a semi-squishy that would like to make an opponent think twice about focusing them.
I'd say all that is worth at least 350 gold.
True, but right now it is a sh-t tier item,
It's more niche than anything else. Thornmail is an OK item at the moment that brings a respectable level of power in the right circumstances. It's still purchased every now and then at the pro level, often on duel-happy top-lanners trying to push an advantage.
I'd reserve sh-t tier for items that are just a huge gold sink and do nothing useful. With thornmail: you're only down 350 gold if the passive isn't doing the right job, which still allows the item to be useful if the situation really called for armor.
Again: more a perception vs. reality thing. Thornmail objectivly isn't that bad, it's just its ~350 gold passive seems to indicate it can do things it simply cannot offer with a ~350 gold passive.
Cherysse1 votesyou say it´s counter is Life Steal, but no, it's counter is magic resist, it deals magic damage, a bit of magic resist and the damage return is almost null, 80 damage is converted to 40 and less, add Life Steal to the equation and the item does NOTHING.
Taking in conideration that it returns an average of 50 damage... you can make the math.
You speak of the item like if it was dealing true damage, but it doesnt.
Out healing thornmail is really easy, just add basic MR runes and a 
, or 
even.