It's just too fucking perfect.
Gnar will eventually be chipped away by nerfs until he's bad just like Kennen was, because he has the same fundamental problems. They will try small nerfs until finally it'll pass a certain point between must-pick and not viable. There isn't a middle ground with such a perfect kit.
FyshinaTux7 votesGeneral BASE HEALTH REGENERATION 5 ⇒ 2.125
They will try small nerfs until finally it'll pass a certain point between must-pick and not viable.
...
They will try small nerfs
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try small nerfs
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small nerfs
Perhaps you missed the above nerf in Patch 4.20... it's HARDLY a "small nerf"...
Khristophoros1 votesGeneral BASE HEALTH REGENERATION 5 ⇒ 2.125
They will try small nerfs until finally it'll pass a certain point between must-pick and not viable.
They will try small nerfs
try small nerfs
small nerfs
Perhaps you missed the above nerf in Patch 4.20... it's HARDLY a "small nerf"...
You think he needs health regen? His kit is too safe with his poke that slows for some reason, his hop, and movement speed gained by AA harassing. This nerf does not matter at all and it's proven by his continued dominance this patch.
FyshinaTux5 votesI see one game in your recent matches that had a Gnar on EITHER team (it was on the enemy team)
You won that game...
Of course that doesn't look like a massive nerf to you, you clearly don't understand how health regen works (remember the riven "changes" and the uproar over the health regen nerf? similar situation here).
Gnar has the LOWEST range of any ranged champion in LoL at level 1, and only outranges:
at lvl 18, which means that ANY ranged top lane champion will be able to kite Mini Gnar.
His boomerang comes to an almost immediate stop when it hits the first enemy (traveling maybe 50 extra units???), which means the lady in the tutorial that says "stay behind your minions" may have had a point.
Mega Gnar is melee (i.e. easily kited), Slow (i.e. easily kited), and somewhat tanky until you BUILD some tank items.
You can't control when you Mega Gnar or leave Mega Gnar, anyone halfway decent will KNOW when he's going into Mega Gnar, and avoid him until he's back in mini (i.e. squishy).
Do I need to continue? Or do you still want to argue? Because from where I'm sitting, removing more than HALF of your HP Regen is a HELL of a nerf.
Khristophoros1 votes
I see one game in your recent matches that had a Gnar on EITHER team (it was on the enemy team)
You won that game...
Of course that doesn't look like a massive nerf to you, you clearly don't understand how health regen works (remember the riven "changes" and the uproar over the health regen nerf? similar situation here).
Gnar has the LOWEST range of any ranged champion in LoL at level 1, and only outranges:
at lvl 18, which means that ANY ranged top lane champion will be able to kite Mini Gnar.
His boomerang comes to an almost immediate stop when it hits the first enemy (traveling maybe 50 extra units???), which means the lady in the tutorial that says "stay behind your minions" may have had a point.
Mega Gnar is melee (i.e. easily kited), Slow (i.e. easily kited), and somewhat tanky until you BUILD some tank items.
You can't control when you Mega Gnar or leave Mega Gnar, anyone halfway decent will KNOW when he's going into Mega Gnar, and avoid him until he's back in mini (i.e. squishy).
Do I need to continue? Or do you still want to argue? Because from where I'm sitting, removing more than HALF of your HP Regen is a HELL of a nerf.
My recent games prove what? What if my mmr is low? What if I was playing with friends who have low mmr? what if the dude playing gnar was learning him?
I never said Gnar can't lose games.
Yeah and Riven remained OP and still is. She never needed regen because her trade pattern is so good and she has a shield she can use to block damage. Her regen stat being nerfed DID force Riven players to optimize her strengths but it didn't hurt her once the players fully developed her laning strategy.
He has one of the best pokes in the game and one of the best disengage skills in the game which more than make up for his AA range.
Oh wow a skillshot blocked by minions! Other skillshots... are too. Good one.
Mega Gnar has insane stats and and insane ult, and his kit overall has enough damage even when he builds tanky.
You can control your fury gain. It's based on your attacking and Gnar players have learned how to stall near max for long periods of time which lets them wait until they want to go into mega.
I don't see how his regen matters because he easily avoids damage.
FyshinaTux5 votes
- My recent games prove what? What if my mmr is low? What if I was playing with friends who have low mmr? what if the dude playing gnar was learning him?
I just know that most of the time when I QQ about a champion, it's because I just got wrecked by that champion. Considering you made this thread about an hour ago, and have no recent Gnar games, I'm wondering what you're basing what you say on, unless you're just chasing hear-say by what other people have said and, in fact, have no experience with/against Gnar.
- I never said Gnar can't lose games.
You make Gnar out to be the most unbeatable OP POS that ever happened to league... that is kind of a contradiction to admit that he can lose after such statements.
- Yeah and Riven remained OP and still is. She never needed regen because her trade pattern is so good and she has a shield she can use to block damage. Her regen stat being nerfed DID force Riven players to optimize her strengths but it didn't hurt her once the players fully developed her laning strategy.
Funny, you're saying EXACTLY what Riot said about the nerf... people STILL (cough... pardon the pun...) Rioted about the insanity of the nerf. Mind you, you're right, she DOES have a shield to mitigate damage... Gnar has no shield to mitigate damage with, all he can do is build up to Mega Gnar to regain some of his health (really isn't THAT much until he starts building tank items.)
- He has one of the best pokes in the game and one of the best disengage skills in the game which more than make up for his AA range.
One of the best pokes in the game? O.o Are you referring to his W passive that requires him to draw minion aggro to proc, or his Q... which is STOPPED by minions... -_-
- Oh wow a skillshot blocked by minions! Other skillshots... are too. Good one.
I fail to see your point in saying this...
- Mega Gnar has insane stats and and insane ult, and his kit overall has enough damage even when he builds tanky.
You're right, his MS in Mega Gnar is INSANELY low. Oh, and from my experience, you almost HAVE to flash + leap to get close enough to have a HOPE of landing your ult if you're using it as initiation. Oh, and his Leap is a HELLA long CD early on, bait it, gank him... he's pretty well dead.
- You can control your fury gain. It's based on your attacking and Gnar players have learned how to stall near max for long periods of time which lets them wait until they want to go into mega.
Of course you can, to a point, if you don't mind missing CS, for the sole purpose of not turning big... I don't know about you, but I'd rather get that CS.
- I don't see how his regen matters because he easily avoids damage.
Like I said, you wouldn't see the importance of regen.
Cale0175 votesThis dude gets it.
FyshinaTux2 votesThank you, glad someone else gets it too...
Khristophoros1 votesI just know that most of the time when I QQ about a champion, it's because I just got wrecked by that champion. Considering you made this thread about an hour ago, and have no recent Gnar games, I'm wondering what you're basing what you say on, unless you're just chasing hear-say by what other people have said and, in fact, have no experience with/against Gnar.
Because I've seen Gnar enough and talked to people enough to come to a conclusion. It's not like he was just released so it really has nothing to do with the games I played this past week or so.
You make Gnar out to be the most unbeatable OP POS that ever happened to league... that is kind of a contradiction to admit that he can lose after such statements.
No it's more like I'm saying his kit is broken due to the specific combination of strengths he has. It's Kennen all over again. Safety + poke + manaless + teamfight ult.
This is a broken combination of strengths because the laning strengths (safety + poke + manaless) makes it nearly impossible to shut the champion down. If you do, you massively outplayed them. Then when teamfights come, they have a huge ult which can potentially win teamfights. The problem with strong and safe laning + strong teamfighting is the champion is pretty much always a strong pick for every team comp and counterpicks are largely meaningless because they can't stop the champ from farming and getting strong, so you can't stop them from being dominant in teamfights.
That is why Kennen kept getting nerfed over the years. He had the same problem.
Funny, you're saying EXACTLY what Riot said about the nerf... people STILL (cough... pardon the pun...) Rioted about the insanity of the nerf. Mind you, you're right, she DOES have a shield to mitigate damage... Gnar has no shield to mitigate damage with, all he can do is build up to Mega Gnar to regain some of his health (really isn't THAT much until he starts building tank items.)
Riot was right and the Riven players were wrong, as usual. They're all drooling retards who would be bronze if Riven didn't exist. She is a mindless aggression champion so you can't really take people who main her seriously.
One of the best pokes in the game? O.o Are you referring to his W passive that requires him to draw minion aggro to proc, or his Q... which is STOPPED by minions... -_-
Being blocked by minions is standard for skillshots. The ones that aren't have less range and don't slow. Gnar's has a slow and is very long range compared to other no-cost/manaless skillshots.
You're right, his MS in Mega Gnar is INSANELY low. Oh, and from my experience, you almost HAVE to flash + leap to get close enough to have a HOPE of landing your ult if you're using it as initiation. Oh, and his Leap is a HELLA long CD early on, bait it, gank him... he's pretty well dead.
Try leaping right before the transformation so you get the double leap while transforming.
Like I said, you wouldn't see the importance of regen.
Actually I use regen quints on some champs because they need regen. But some champs don't need regen because they don't need to take risks to farm.
FyshinaTux2 votesBecause I've seen Gnar enough and talked to people enough to come to a conclusion. It's not like he was just released so it really has nothing to do with the games I played this past week or so.
You JUST proved my point sir. You spoke with someone about Gnar. Lemme see how this all works.
So dude, there's a champion in LoL that is manaless. He actually works on this rage/fury system so it doesn't cost him ANYTHING to cast a spell... He has a dash, that like... if he lands it, he can dash AGAIN!! He also has this AoE ability that heals himself, so he can sustain for like ZOMG OP. But, the BEST part... is that he has an auto attack resetting/modifying STUN that you CAN'T dodge because it's just an auto attack.
His ult is insane too, because he deals physical damage, but his ult deals magic damage, and it's really high magic damage, and it makes him huge and he gains max health during his ult. He's SOOO OP, you can't beat him at all, if you go in on him, he just has to stun you and then he can dash away, but if he goes in on you, he dashes in stuns AoE to heal himself then dashes away, and he does all that SOOOO quick that you can't retaliate.
Holy shit is that ever so OP.
Pinker 102 votesBeing blocked by minions is standard for skillshots.
**The ones that aren't have less range and don't slow. **
Knight SoIaire 2 votesthe case is the abuse of range on toplane
prolly the case of gnar will be the same as the case of nidaele where she gets only popular when something on her kit becomes abusable to the insane level
FyshinaTux1 votesConsidering Gnar was MADE specifically for top lane, I imagine they're wanting to do away with melee top laners. Kalista is a top laner too, melee's kinda don't like playing against her... >.>
We'll see, but if you look at the champs that were released recently, you get the following breakdown for ranged vs melee.
Kalista, Ranged, Top (I don't care that she's supposed to be an ADC, Quinn was supposed to be too, she isn't played as ADC, I don't think Kalista will be either before too much longer.)
Azir, Ranged, Mid
Gnar, Ranged, Top
Braum, Melee, Support
Vel'Koz, Ranged, Mid/Support
Yasuo, Melee, Mid
Jinx & Lucian, Ranged, ADC
Aatrox, Melee, who knows where???
Lissandra, Ranged, mid/top(Support???)
That's 3 melee out of the last 10 champions, being a support, a midlane (possibly a top laner) assassin, and a blood-loving somethingorother that doesn't really fit well anywhere because he's weak.
idk, seems like Riot is favoring ranged champions as of late.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesidk, seems like Riot is favoring ranged champions as of late.
yeah thats kinda the case, its preety normal to run a 4 ranged 1 meele comps these days
Cale0173 votesGnar also has to give up significant amounts of survivability that's not completely made up for by his mega form to make his mini form actually viable, so much so that the guy who designed him has warned people away from items like Sunfire Cape or Randuin's Omen because those are all but useless on mini Gnar, who you'll spend 90% of the match as.
He's nerfed by his own kit. By the fact that you can't fully control when you're going to go mega, and once you do you either have to commit and get your use out of it or you're going down like a flaming little furball. Gnar is balanced by his lack of balance. By the fact that in a situation where you're low health and running from someone who CAN stick to you, and there are those who can, you might Mega Gnar right when you don't want to, when perhaps your ult isn't down, and you won't be able to get away. Or you might have just been trying to push a lane, go Mega, and the enemies wait until after it's worn off to jump onto you, when you can't retaliate well enough to overcome given how weak and squishy mega Gnar is.
Clearly you've lost a few matches against a Gnar, or perhaps just one very bad match more recently, but I can assure you as someone who woke up the day of his release eager to pay Riot more of my hardearned money and spent most of that day playing him, as someone who's knee jerk reaction anytime I have, or want, to go top lane is Gnar, that he doesn't need to be nerfed half so hard as you're making it out to be. Once he gets his snowball rolling he can be hard to stop, but that doesn't change a few key points.
Mega Gnar is easy to kite.
Mini Gnar is easy to jump on and kill.
You can't always be the Gnar you want to be.
CC will shut him down if used at the right time.
He still falls off late game.
Teemo still laughs at him.
My advice?
Darius' pull is as long as Gnar's AA range during the early stages of a game. As such a skilled Darius can shut down a Gnar pretty easy by whittling him down with his bleed passive so when Mega Gnar happens, Gnar isn't at a high enough health to go in on the Darius.
Irelia's passive helps her out in chases against, or from, a Gnar. Her equilibrium strike, the BoRK you most likely have on her, and a Triforce keeps him in range if he tries to run, and eats him alive if he tries to stay on you as a Mega Gnar between the BoRK and her Hiten style active. So long as you don't let him get his stacks on you, it shouldn't be cake but it should be doable.
Jax jumps on top of him, stuns him, and eats him alive.
Any assassin in the game gibs him before he has a chance to leap away. The skilled assassins can catch back up even if he does.
Take some hard CC with you if possible, maybe even Exhaust instead of Ignite if you're THAT worried, and pick someone who can either deny him farm or use him pushing the lane against him. Get an early gank from your jungler to force him from lane, and start setting him behind. If you're the jungler and YOU don't want to deal with him in the mid game, gank willingly, work with your top laner to set it up.
Most of the time people are QQing about Gnar it's because they didn't have a team that could handle him because they either A) weren't mobile enough, B) Didn't have enough CC to stop him, or C) Didn't have enough burst to kill him in mini Gnar form.
Go brush up, chill out, and try again next time you see a Gnar. That, or use my personal strategy for learning how to beat a champion, put a day or two into learning them inside and out so you know what to expect from one.
Reynard the ƒox2 votesYeah I remember reading Gnar's kit before release and thinking 'Riot did WHAT!?'
Sohleks1 votesI'm gonna ignore his laning phase which is strong to safe and say...
• little Gnar has too much free damage from W at later ranks
• also Mega Gnar does too much damage with just a brutalizer. With CC that sick it's over the top, especially considering R wall stuns are basically unavoidable
If Gnar is so strong late from the above you gotta gut his laning phase. Problem is Gnar is resourceless with range. That boomerang is such a good tool to CS with if behind. The cooldown and range of that is too generous for most top laners to zone out Gnar even if winning the lane.
If I had to nerf Gnar I would reduce normal Q range, Mega Gnar damage, and either make Mega Gnar ult slower or only work on champions to Gnar's front (does remove the ability fling enemies back...). Not sure how I feel on the W passive proc 14% max health dmg proc
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Jefftiffy1 votesNot to mention anyone capable of sticking to him as mini gnar.
Reynard the ƒox4 votesliterally every single champion in the game is countered by hard cc
why the hell is this even an argument
darkdill2 votesliterally every single champion in the game is countered by hard cc
why the hell is this even an argument
Khristophoros1 votesEDIT: Oh sorry I see what you were responding to. Nevermind.
Khristophoros1 votesGnar is countered by hard CC. Plenty of champions in the top lane have hard cc. There is no problem here.
This argument only works for champions who lose their survival options while CC'd such as Yi or Riven.
Leblancs Boob3 votesEvery champion in the game barring Olaf to an extent is "hard countered" by cc so that excuse is invalid.. That being said Gnar is extremely strong and I don't think anyone can deny that. We will only see how popular he will become
Khristophoros2 votesEvery champion in the game barring Olaf to an extent is "hard countered" by cc so that excuse is invalid.. That being said Gnar is extremely strong and I don't think anyone can deny that. We will only see how popular he will become
Tanks such as Mega Gnar are not countered by hard CC.
