Why Should You Not Build Last Whisperer & Black Cleaver Together?

ItsOrval·Oct 7, 2016·1 votes·727 views

I am always told to not build these 2 items together? Why is that. More armor penetration = more damage :D

My full build on my main Jayce

14 Comments

Michael702Oct 7, 20162 votes

item 3035 is fine. item 3036 is not. Look at the passive to find out why.

ItsOrvalOct 7, 20161 votes

I dont see why. I must be overlooking it.

Its LiuKangOct 7, 20161 votes

You are building more health with cleaver, therefor less times you're going to be able to process it's passive on squishy champs plus who doesn't love a good grievous wounds

ItsOrvalOct 7, 20161 votes

Eh, I guess I could try Mortal Reminder. But in the end with this build, I only have 2.2k health anyways.

CrettOct 7, 20162 votes

Black Cleaver reduces their armor, thus Last Whisper has less armor to ignore, making it less effective. It's sorta like diminishing returns. That's the gist of it. It's up to you whether or not it's slot efficient. Dominik's Giant Slayer passive might be less effective if you're building Cleaver though.

ItsOrvalOct 7, 20161 votes

So is Lord's better overall?

CrettOct 7, 20161 votes

If you want to JUST ignore armor and shred tanks, go for Dominik's in my opinion. Black Cleaver is good for champs that can apply the armor shred quickly and make use of the HP and CDR (Which Jayce can do).

AsphodelNextOct 7, 20161 votes

There's a difference between flat armor pen and percent armor pen. Currently, it's much better to stack flat armor pen, because of how the math works out and how generally efficient the items that provide it are.

So, most Jayce players get a item 3156 in that spot. It also helps you against magic damage burst.

AsphodelNextOct 7, 20161 votes

I guess Last Whisper isn't that bad, but you have to be facing like a lot of armor. Situationally it's good. But it shouldn't be your core, get every game item.

ItsOrvalOct 7, 20161 votes

I like Last Whisper though because it helps with me Q+E combo on my cannon. While BC only works well when i auto them.

EDIT: Also, if you have flat armor penetration, does that apply first toward the armor penetration? So lets say the enemy has 200 armor, I have Lord's 45% armor pen, and 30 flat armor pen. Would it be 200 - 45% - 30 = 80 or 200 - 30 - 45% = 93.5

WoululuuOct 7, 20161 votes

First one % Amor pen always get count first. So flat amor pen after the %.

AsphodelNextOct 7, 20162 votes

Not exactly. Lord's is 45% bonus armor penetration. So it doesn't apply to base armor.

So like say your enemy has 200 armor, but 100 of it is base armor. Then, it would be (100+(100-45% of 100)) - 30 = 125.

That's why it's not all that good; it only applies to people that actually build armor. If it applied to the full amount, you'd buy it all the time, yeah.

ItsOrvalOct 7, 20161 votes

Ah that makes me sad :(

420 gramsOct 7, 20161 votes

Essence reaver is good too so you can get mana back. I'd say skip ghost blade since his w gives Max as anyway. I also personally like merc skim or bloodthirster instead of d blade on jayce