Banner of Command was too hard to balance, so they removed it

TrikzterzArma·Nov 26, 2018·39 votes·13,653 views

Why is it so god damn hard to do the same to other things?

Banner of Command was either too good or too bad, so they removed it.

I rarely see anyone buy Duskblade anymore because it was really nerfed. If they were to buff it again, it would go back to being broken. Stormrazor gives a stupid high burst early, but falls off and is useless later on. Dark Harvest gives way too much easy extra damage.

Why not just remove them? If Riot has to try extremely hard to get something to work, it most likely isn't a good thing. Just straight up remove them, like you did to Banner.

45 Comments

EndorcerNov 26, 201821 votes

banner of command was perfectly acceptable in it's original state of being immune to magic damage it was a niche item, but it did it's job and made it easier to close out games against heavy ap waveclear the way riot changed it was completely uncalled for, and made the item broken, essentially and instead of admitting their mistake and reverting it, they just removed the item

YumaS2AstralNov 27, 20187 votes

{quoted}

banner of command was perfectly acceptable in it's original state of being immune to magic damage it was a niche item, but it did it's job and made it easier to close out games against heavy ap waveclear the way riot changed it was completely uncalled for, and made the item broken, essentially and instead of admitting their mistake and reverting it, they just removed the item

To be honest, being immune to magic damage was incredibly bullshit to play against.

You had to rely on your AD champions to counter it. On One for All, it forced you to build AD on a mage just to be able to counter it.

I am glad that both versions are gone

gileskdNov 27, 20181 votes

well yeah, that's one for all for you

1 person builds ap 1 person builds ad 1 person builds on hit 1 person builds tank 1 person builds whatever the fuck they want

if all five of you build ap, that's your problem item 3194

DuskDaUmbreonNov 27, 20181 votes

And if that one AD was dead?

gileskdNov 29, 20181 votes

then that is called "your opponent played it correctly, killing the ad champ before using banner of command" move

DuskDaUmbreonNov 29, 20181 votes

I should be able to kill a fucking minion before it takes half my turret (or half my health ) without having to have an AD champion kill it instead.

You can lose a champion in a poor trade. Or even on a good one.

If they kill our ADC and we kill everyone but their Soraka because she wasn't there for the fight, she shouldn't still be able to do significant damage to a turret for the sole reason that we don't have an ADC alive. That's just fucking stupid.

3TWarriorNov 29, 20181 votes

Turrets prioritize upgraded minions and before the idiotic changes without considering that turrets use AD to attack minions, they gave minions 50% reduction to both sources of damage

so, an upgraded minion that would take 4 shots to kill then took EIGHT SHOTS TO KILL!

all they had to do to fix this was either make it not apply to turret damage, or have turrets ignore effects that might reduce damage

gileskdNov 30, 20181 votes

"If they kill our ADC and we kill everyone but their Soraka because she wasn't there for the fight, she shouldn't still be able to do significant damage to a turret for the sole reason that we don't have an ADC alive. That's just fucking stupid."

I am very confused here if the soraka built damage, she should be able to damage the tower, if she didn't build damage she shouldn't damage it much. if the other 4 members of your team are alive, you should outpace the soraka in damage. regardless of whether or not you have an adc or not.

how does your adc being dead increase sorakas damage? "she shouldn't still be able to do significant damage to a turret for the sole reason that we don't have an ADC alive."

DuskDaUmbreonNov 30, 20181 votes

Because Soraka's damage isn't from Soraka. Her damage is from using Banner on a cannon.

We end up unable to kill the cannon in a reasonable timeframe because we have no physical damage.

Abuse meNov 27, 20181 votes

If you think that banner of command was what so ever okay, then you dont play mages, and you didnt play against sion mid with ZZ rot and banner. You literally lost your lane and you couldnt anything about it. No matter how good you farmed, your tower was gone. ALL GAMEPLAY MECHANICS, THAT DO NOT REQUIRE DIRECT INPUT SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM PVP GAMES. There is a reason why playing against this Heimerdinger Zyra Yorick item 3512 item 3075 feels so fucking awful. And the reason is that in our brains, those types of champions and items do not fall into category of effort and reward. If these things are meta again, you can bet that people will start complaining and quitting.

3TWarriorNov 29, 20181 votes

since when has playing against yorick felt awful?

also, all they had to do to fix the problem was make it so that the damage reduction did not apply to towers...

ParoeNov 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

banner of command was perfectly acceptable in it's original state of being immune to magic damage it was a niche item, but it did it's job and made it easier to close out games against heavy ap waveclear the way riot changed it was completely uncalled for, and made the item broken, essentially and instead of admitting their mistake and reverting it, they just removed the item

tbh banner was only really a problem because at the time you could get something like 40% item CDR via runes and ruby sightstone. It meant you could drop zzrots and banners often enough to have two or three up at a time.

Bent PixelsNov 26, 20187 votes

Basically every AD assassin/bruiser buys duskblade. Wtf u talking about?

AirKingNeoNov 26, 20182 votes

what bruiser builds duskblade?

Bent PixelsNov 26, 20182 votes

Ive seen bruiser garen and aatrox build it, full damage riven can, jarvan 4, nocturne, wukong, hell even renekton can build it.

BestealNov 26, 20184 votes

Wait. No one buys it on Garen because the stats are worthless unless he goes full AD. Youmuus is better on him. Once again, Youmuus is better on Aatrox. Riven can use pretty much anything that isn't AP so that's just a Riven problem. When Jarvan builds it he isn't going bruiser anymore. Same with Wukong and Nocturne. Renekton never buys this item.

But yes every assassin buys this item so idk what OP is talking about there.

zaire90Nov 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bent Pixels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z0s1EExi,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-11-26T14:28:18.938+0000)

Basically every AD assassin/bruiser buys duskblade. Wtf u talking about?

Its an ad assassin item so that makes sense and when bruisers build duskblade they arent going bruiser theyre going full ad 1 shot builds ie ad assassins with less mobility

DuskDaUmbreonNov 26, 20185 votes

That's not why it was removed.

It was because it was impossible to balance, was rather uninteractive for the user, and felt like shit to play against as the opponent.

At least Duskblade forces you to auto the ward. It's not a complete drop and forget instance like Banner was.

Duskblade is difficult to balance, but not impossible. It's just going to take a while for it to hit that happy middle ground.

ModAcademy KaynNov 27, 20182 votes

Never forget Heimer building Banner first, and dropping it in your lane as an AP champion.

Go fuck yourself Past Heimer.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 27, 20182 votes

All iterations of Heimer can go fuck himself tbh

saltranNov 28, 20181 votes

God I love so much that Banner was removed from the game.

MalakNov 27, 20184 votes

{quoted} I rarely see anyone buy Duskblade anymore because it was really nerfed.

Okay now you're fucking lying lol

I see duskblade nearly EVERY GAME

Warlord RhinarkNov 26, 20183 votes

Banner of Command deserved better.

saltranNov 26, 20182 votes

Yeah, it should've been removed months before than they did.

It took too long to remove that cancer item.

Warlord RhinarkNov 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, it should've been removed months before than they did.

It took too long to remove that cancer item.

Frick you Saltran, very not cool.

>:/

3TWarriorNov 29, 20181 votes

all the item needed was to either not affect turret damage or to be reverted to its previous state...riot chose the lazy way out

BestealNov 26, 20182 votes

Ahem CONQUEROR GODDAMIT

Abuse meNov 27, 20182 votes

Conqueror is necessary.

HÔPÊNov 27, 20182 votes

They are fucking lazy.

saltranNov 26, 20181 votes

Banner of command was removed not for what you said, but because it was op for ppl that knew how to use it and useless for the majority of the playerbase that's in bronze/silver/gold

So, comparing It to Duskblade or StormR is just straight up stupid.

TrikzterzArmaNov 26, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Banner of command was removed not for what you said, but because it was op for ppl that knew how to use it and useless for the majority of the playerbase that's in bronze/silver/gold

So, comparing It to Duskblade or StormR is just straight up stupid.

They quite literally said in the article about it that it got removed because it was impossible to balance, and that it was either so good that everyone used it, or so bad that nobody used it

saltranNov 26, 20188 votes

it was either so good that everyone used it, or so bad that nobody used it

Ok, so how does this apply to Duskblade or StormR?

DuskBlade and StormR have never been on a state that everyone buys it and neither on a state that it's useless on their intentendeds niches.

[REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO]

flibitydooNov 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

DuskBlade and StormR have never been on a state that everyone buys it and neither on a state that it's useless on their intentendeds niches.

yes lethality everything definitely didn't become the meta and we didn't see the abuse from jhin/mf running duskblade for nearly an entire season you are 100% telling the truth and in no way incorrect about the item never being abused by everything that autos

DuskDaUmbreonNov 27, 20184 votes

???

Okay 2-3 additional unintended champions is not the same as literally everyone who can.

Jhin and MF going lethality is NOT the same as top mid jg and support buying Banner every game. One is TWO adcs, the other is everyone but ADCs.

ModUlanopoNov 28, 20182 votes

Hey Saltran,

I removed the part of your post that was unnecessarily insulting to other boards users. Please be more respectful in the future.

If you have questions or concerns about this action please visit us in the Moderation Discord here.

~ Ulanopo

Thaumaturge VoidNov 27, 20181 votes

Is this per game or overall? If the former, then about half, if not more, of the items in the game could be trashed. If the later, then I’m a bit sad. Not only was I an avid Banner user, it most likely means Zz’rot and Ohmwrecker will be removed. Well, with the new turrets, they might get used more. Or at all for Ohmwrecker. Then they’ll probably gut them, or buff n’ gut. Who knows, I guess.

Malix FarwinNov 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Banner of command was removed not for what you said, but because it was op for ppl that knew how to use it and useless for the majority of the playerbase that's in bronze/silver/gold

So, comparing It to Duskblade or StormR is just straight up stupid.

No it was removed because it was impossible to balance as in make it too strong and everyone built, make it too weak and no one built it.

3TWarriorNov 29, 20181 votes

it was removed because it showed how weak turrets are when it would take 8 turret shots to kill a minion...

also, "removing" is a lazy and last resort method when all they had to do was make it where the effect did not apply to turret damage. They could even have changed the item back to its previous state

railz0Nov 27, 20181 votes

I buy Duskblade nearly every game, as do other Talon players. Same for Zed, Nocturne, Wukong, Shaco, Jayce, Miss Fortune, Riven, occasional Graves, Jarvan, Lee Sin and lethality Varus. Damage, which is still decent, isn’t all the item offers. ;)

MonstermushmushNov 27, 20181 votes

JUST REVERT IT OMG

5050BSNov 27, 20181 votes

item 3124 item 3095 item 3146 item 3147

JarodDempseyNov 27, 20181 votes

lol boc was removed bc it was generally useless but also because it needlessly discriminated against ap champs and slightly bc it gained some infamy when buffed cannon minions who were then effected by it could nuke the shit out of objectives from almost offscreen.