The Secret Brilliance of Rotating Game modes (That I just realized)

ModCaptainMårvelous·Apr 22, 2016·163 votes·7,610 views

The official queue (For now) has been announced:

Ascension Poro King URF Hexakill One-For-All

One of the biggest problems with these modes is that they'd get stale after a week. People figure out a meta, pick the best stuff, etc. It's also why many people are pissy about URF being spread through the year rather than on a single two week period. I, in my infinite slowness, just realized why this is actually a fantastic thing. We'll have URF back about five weeks from now, or about a month and a half. You know what else we'll have in that time?

The mage reworks and maybe one extra patch.

This is the secret beauty of these patches. For a more immediate example, the last time we played ascension was two weeks ago. When Ascension comes back? Taric rework, mage items and all those mage updates will be on live. Holy crap, that completely changes the way we played Ascension from last time. THAT is why spreading game modes out is smart. Rather than giving us two weeks to completely adjust and form a slapdash meta, we're going to be playing these games in a different environment every time we play.

New champions. New Items. Reworks. Whatever have you, this drastically improves the lifespan of the game. Kudos to Riot, that's actually brilliant.

127 Comments

El Condor PasaApr 22, 201610 votes

They get stale fast. I quit after a few games of OFA on PBE because it was pretty much ban MYMU mages, pick yasuo. If this is any indication of whats ahead, I'm glad we only get to see these game modes for a weekend at a time.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 22, 201642 votes

Wait you're banning mages?

Aren't you supposed to be testing them on the PBE?

El Condor PasaApr 22, 201633 votes

We're supposed to testing them, but that just isn't the case. The PBE is the serious server where the fate of people's lives are determined by the outcome of the game.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 22, 201641 votes

And people think I'm not fair to the PBE because I don't trust them when it comes to balance adjustments...

Kuroi86Apr 22, 20166 votes

PBE isn't used for balancing. The test numbers are just too small, it takes a while on live before Riot is certain of what moves they make when balancing.

The PBE is used for picking up on bugs and attempting to drive up hype for changes like Taric and the mage update.

The issue is while game modes like one for all would be great for picking up on bugs, people prefer to just play what they want on there and only really test new champs a lot in customs which gives very little info on potential bugs.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 22, 20163 votes

I'm aware but people go "OMG HOW COULD THIS HIT LIVE" and then lament how the PBE is garbage and doesn't do its job.

Meanwhile they want a predominantly Silver/Bronze audience balancing the game in a buggy and unfinished environment.

JariApr 22, 20161 votes

People go like that because some bugs don't go on pbe, but slip into live servers and don't realize that. Azir's actually a good example for this.

WheatloafApr 22, 20162 votes

Release Azir was an experience.

JariApr 22, 20161 votes

Quite so. So many of his bugs weren't even on the pbe either or were never in a situation for testing.. Couldn't entirely blame them. I remember hearing about Azir W getting him ahead in exp and gold against Jayce because the gate was made out of minions and he could kill them with W.

mike in the boxApr 22, 20166 votes

good player =/= good tester alloso good player =/= know jack squat about balance.

read about the history of snap caster mage some time if you want to know more about this. long story short, mtg world champion got to design a card. he did and it was stupid busted / unprintable. so they worked with him to make a less broken card. so they made snap caster mage. which was slightly less busted.

tlrd rely competitive players often only know how to abuses a system not how to balance them.

What Is SmiteApr 22, 20161 votes

If there is one thing PBE players agree on in the Mage changes then it would be this: Malzahar's new passive needs a nerf before going to live, if he gets hit with either soft CC or Hard CC while it is up it will also mitigate the damage considering it part of the CC. Also his Voidlings numbers need a bit more tuning since they are a bit overtuned for most of the mid lane champs.

Vellich0rApr 22, 20161 votes

yeah, I had an annie tell me to kill myself for playing zyra mid when her rework was being "balanced for support."

WolfBVApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And people think I'm not fair to the PBE because I don't trust them when it comes to balance adjustments...

My first game of one for all on pbe was Zileans vs Ziggs. It felt horrible winning.

theragingnerdApr 23, 20161 votes

lmao you go from 17 downvotes to 19 upvotes

CrossetteApr 23, 20161 votes

The mage update is literally no fun to play against. AT ALL.

I can't wait for this shit to hit live so I can finally quit the game.

DukuesApr 22, 20169 votes

Be cool if they could add Dominion to the rotation.

SaiannaApr 22, 20166 votes

There's just 1 very, very ugly thing about rotating game modes:

work on weekends.

I personaly am lucky enough to have free weekends, but my friend unfortunately doesn't. Oh and he's the only RL friend who still plays LoL.

So.. I don't think we'll play URF together alot :/

RozencrantzeApr 22, 20163 votes

I never got bored of urf.. i play several different champs even if they arent the best.. its just so much fun.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 22, 201611 votes

I got bored after having to deal with the same AD Malz/Shaco/Ezreal/Vlad comp for the 12th time. Props if you can enjoy that but it gets old for me. Very fast.

SpoofghoulApr 22, 20161 votes

Yoou forgot to mention helicoptarim every single damn game

and gatling dildo launcher urgot and neverending shield of unlimited healing galio, or was it galileo

Kuroi86Apr 22, 20162 votes

Most fun I ever had was playing APBruiser Naut with an AP Alistar. They kept coming at us and we kept on weathering everything, aced their team twice, finally it took their entire team using all of their ults all at once and blowing everything they had to actually bring us down. Everyone was laughing their butts off because of just how ridiculous the combo was. Between my shield and Alis healing, we just couldn't die.

OshletApr 22, 20162 votes

I found it fun as nautilus to occasionally forgo movement altogether and use my q to get around by latching onto walls.

IncognonymousApr 22, 20163 votes

What does a rotating game mode offer that a permanent one does not? Riot loses nothing by keeping URF permanent. Nothing. Not a damn thing. Name something that ARAM lost in the process of becoming a featured game mode.

And the people who play LoL are game-ruining scum. They'll figure out what's the cheapest mechanic and spam it until everyone capitulates. It doesn't matter if it's Ranked 5v5s or URF.

Ale non è maleApr 22, 201630 votes

{quoted}

What does a rotating game mode offer that a permanent one does not? Riot loses nothing by keeping URF permanent. Nothing. Not a damn thing. Name something that ARAM lost in the process of becoming a featured game mode.

You are wrong Keep a game mode permanent require permanent balance and map work, which riot is clearly unwilling to do. And URF was though to be inherently unbalanced, so the work needed would be even bigger than what it would be for a TT or a Dominion

ARAM is balanced by the fact you can't realy choose the champs you get, so even if the single game is unbalanced, whatever, the next one you won't play against the same comp and with the same comp because of that...the only slight exception is for those ARAM specific account that imho are kinda few so not much relevant overall

Jungle Lux GodApr 22, 20165 votes

Just adding some stuff to support this point.

Looking at the other game modes, most champions didn't get balance updates for many of the other game modes, and there were very few, if any, extreme outliers for Riot to permaban from the mode (apart from URF and what modes I can't remember off the top of my head, the only game mode to permaban champions that I can remember was when One-for-All banned Teemo and Karthus).

The first time URF came around it started with bans to Ryze and Kassadin and balance changes to almost a half-dozen other champions and a few items. After a week of the mode being up the ban list tripled. The second time it came around, it rebalanced somewhere between a quarter to half the cast so as not to have any completely broken champions, yet it still had some rather extreme outliers. That's how much balance needs to go into URF, and yet it still remained rather unbalanced.

SkyBlade79Apr 22, 201613 votes

"They'll figure out what's the cheapest mechanic and spam it until everyone capitulates."

You answered your own question. URF will become stale after a few months, and soon, the game's most loved mode will just be Zed and Ekko nonstop.

Mistress MadokaApr 22, 20163 votes

URF Becomes Stale after a Matter of Days, let alone weeks or months

AMYS GRAVEApr 23, 20161 votes

URF Becomes Stale after a Matter of a few games, let alone days.

WEANUS PEANUSApr 26, 20161 votes

URF is fun when you try the few champions you'd like to see in URF. After 3-5 games it's the same champions that are obviously way better than the rest with ppl raging.

ElikainApr 22, 20161 votes

Simple reason really. Keeping something permanent would require constant balance changes, for a mode that is intentionally made to be imbalanced and that would get stale after a week. I'm not joking. It's fun but that kind of fun lasts for a short while until the meta settles in and then you'll be seeing the same teams over and over because people want easy wins. The Riot would have to make changes to said champions (just like it happens in SR) if they get too out of hand, simply rotating someone else on their spot and we're on to having to balance URF as well as SR.

It's simply much better to have some content come out and have strategies from SR and then on occasion, we get to have fun with URF. I'd rather not put myself in the situation where i'd say "URF is boring".

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Simple reason really. Keeping something permanent would require constant balance changes, for a mode that is intentionally made to be imbalanced and that would get stale after a week. I'm not joking. It's fun but that kind of fun lasts for a short while until the meta settles in and then you'll be seeing the same teams over and over because people want easy wins. The Riot would have to make changes to said champions (just like it happens in SR) if they get too out of hand, simply rotating someone else on their spot and we're on to having to balance URF as well as SR.

It's simply much better to have some content come out and have strategies from SR and then on occasion, we get to have fun with URF. I'd rather not put myself in the situation where i'd say "URF is boring".

No, only having one supported map is the dumbest bullshit model I've ever fucking heard. SR is so fucking boring after 6 goddamn years. Even a marginal amount of support-- a fucking casual glance-- at the other maps would improve the quality of play there so much and bring so much variety.

But nope. Riot's too busy ruining balance on SR every chance they get. Whatever.

ElikainApr 23, 20162 votes

SR is the only map in years to ever be played the most. It's also the only and the best competitive experience. The argument: "we don't have anything else so we are forced to play what's available" is false. TT, Dominion are proof of that.

Dominion died because it became boring for almost everyone and only a small fraction of the community actually played it to this day. The cost of maintaining a full map or a game mode permanently is too high and for who? For 10 players? Please. The resources that were reserved for this project have been released and that means they have more to put into their next projects that we will enjoy in the future.

We already know that TT is next in line. Riot updated it a few years back and it still wasn't good enough. And not because it was a poor job, it's because of us. We clearly don't want to play it because we're not interested in it. I used to play TT ranked and was proud that i almost reached Diamond but that faded way pretty quickly.

"Riot lies to their community with their data and is telling us what we want". Their data says we don't want these. Argue this all you want with emotions, the facts are facts. If we're not playing it consistently, it means it's not fun and that you don't want it. Simply as that. But you keep telling them that you want it, except then you don't play it. You're contradicting yourself and it's not at your expense. They'd rater spend their resources on an experience we all enjoy so that they make more in the future. That's called growth. Having Riot exercise your fancy is taking one step forward and ten steps back.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

SR is the only map in years to ever be played the most. It's also the only and the best competitive experience. The argument: "we don't have anything else so we are forced to play what's available" is false. TT, Dominion are proof of that.

Dominion died because it became boring for almost everyone and only a small fraction of the community actually played it to this day. The cost of maintaining a full map or a game mode permanently is too high and for who? For 10 players? Please. The resources that were reserved for this project have been released and that means they have more to put into their next projects that we will enjoy in the future.

We already know that TT is next in line. Riot updated it a few years back and it still wasn't good enough. And not because it was a poor job, it's because of us. We clearly don't want to play it because we're not interested in it. I used to play TT ranked and was proud that i almost reached Diamond but that faded way pretty quickly.

"Riot lies to their community with their data and is telling us what we want". Their data says we don't want these. Argue this all you want with emotions, the facts are facts. If we're not playing it consistently, it means it's not fun and that you don't want it. Simply as that. But you keep telling them that you want it, except then you don't play it. You're contradicting yourself and it's not at your expense. They'd rater spend their resources on an experience we all enjoy so that they make more in the future. That's called growth. Having Riot exercise your fancy is taking one step forward and ten steps back.

What the fuck did I say about laying this at the feet of the community?

Not supporting other maps in favor of attention on SR isn't some conspiracy boards cooked up-- it's literal policy. This is Riot's doing, not "us."

ElikainApr 23, 20162 votes

You're so dense that you're missing the point. SR is the most played map throughout the years and it still is. That's a fact. You weren't playing Dominion enough. You didn't have to say anything, your actions spoke louder than words. Lowest play rate said everything - they spent resources to balance it with every change and not enough people played it. Plus, the queues were an hour long. You can't fix queue times if players are not playing the map.

And that uproar you're talking about? Three threads about Dominion getting sacked isn't much of an uproar. It sucks for the people that played Dominion and enjoyed it but it's for the better. With the resources from the Dominion, Riot can focus on a new project we might like or improving the old ones.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're so dense that you're missing the point. SR is the most played map throughout the years and it still is. That's a fact. You weren't playing Dominion enough. You didn't have to say anything, your actions spoke louder than words. Lowest play rate said everything - they spent resources to balance it with every change and not enough people played it. Plus, the queues were an hour long. You can't fix queue times if players are not playing the map.

And that uproar you're talking about? Three threads about Dominion getting sacked isn't much of an uproar. It sucks for the people that played Dominion and enjoyed it but it's for the better. With the resources from the Dominion, Riot can focus on a new project we might like or improving the old ones.

Ad hominem, hyperbole, and fallacy all in one post.

My hats off to you. You are officially the dumbest person in this thread, and this is the dumbest post. Round of applause.

ElikainApr 24, 20161 votes

I see. You're so delusional that even a bit of common sense flies right over your head. There's no point in discussing anything else with you, the facts are facts. Dominion was removed because it wasn't being played enough to justify spending the resources to balance it. Twisted Treeline is probably next in line, unless Riot has something in store for it - like trying to explain the Shadow Isles lore through it. But that's just me wishing for something like that, nothing of the sort has been confirmed nor suggested by Riot.

But go right ahead, keep making up theories about Riot being out to get you and sucking the fun out their game - which is nothing more but your paranoia and very vivid imagination. You're not even worth being taken seriously nor being worth my time.

Enjoy the rest of your day. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdldHSPWoAIrT0t.jpg

IncognonymousApr 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I see. You're so delusional that even a bit of common sense flies right over your head. There's no point in discussing anything else with you, the facts are facts. Dominion was removed because it wasn't being played enough to justify spending the resources to balance it. Twisted Treeline is probably next in line, unless Riot has something in store for it - like trying to explain the Shadow Isles lore through it. But that's just me wishing for something like that, nothing of the sort has been confirmed nor suggested by Riot.

But go right ahead, keep making up theories about Riot being out to get you and sucking the fun out their game - which is nothing more but your paranoia and very vivid imagination. You're not even worth being taken seriously nor being worth my time.

Enjoy the rest of your day. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdldHSPWoAIrT0t.jpg

I don't have to make up theories. Riot's terrible design paradigms do a damn fine job sucking all the fun out of their game as it stands.

I'm delusional, yet you're the one who believes his dumb opinion is "common sense." You're so full of shit it's a miracle you haven't exploded.

WarlockLawApr 22, 20161 votes

Riot doesn't want to make balance changes with respect to other game modes. How frequently do their patch notes make changes to game modes other than Summoner's Rift, or include buffs/nerfs because of the metas involved in other game modes? Without balance changes intended for URF the mode would stagnate. Anybody who remembers the first time we had URF likely remembers we had the same 6 bans and same 3-4 dominaring picks after a few days prior to the permabans. That was after a week, give us a month and we'd have full tier lists.

ARAM works because it's random. Random locks, with rerolls, plus the Snowball summoner spell prevents stagnation while allowing variance. If we want URF permanently they'd have to add similar things just to keep us playing it. Even then I doubt ARAM and URF could coexist.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesn't want to make balance changes with respect to other game modes. How frequently do their patch notes make changes to game modes other than Summoner's Rift, or include buffs/nerfs because of the metas involved in other game modes? Without balance changes intended for URF the mode would stagnate. Anybody who remembers the first time we had URF likely remembers we had the same 6 bans and same 3-4 dominaring picks after a few days prior to the permabans. That was after a week, give us a month and we'd have full tier lists.

Then the problem is Riot not supporting other game modes-- not game modes falling out of favor once permanent. How are you going to lay this at the feet of the community when this problem is obviously solvable with minimal effort on Riot's part?

WarlockLawApr 23, 20161 votes

They haven't supported more than bare necessity in the past, I don't expect them to change that to accommodate URF. For players to enjoy URF for much longer than a week, they'd need to make changes for it every patch, something the haven't done with ARAM, Dominion or Twisted Treeline. If they fail to put out these changes, the mode would end up stagnating. If they do support it, it would threaten to usurp ARAM's playerbase.

URF as a permanent game mode isn't worth their effort imo. It would more than wear out its welcome. ARAM only manages to stay interesting because of the random champion, URF doesn't have that.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They haven't supported more than bare necessity in the past, I don't expect them to change that to accommodate URF. For players to enjoy URF for much longer than a week, they'd need to make changes for it every patch, something the haven't done with ARAM, Dominion or Twisted Treeline. If they fail to put out these changes, the mode would end up stagnating. If they do support it, it would threaten to usurp ARAM's playerbase.

URF as a permanent game mode isn't worth their effort imo. It would more than wear out its welcome. ARAM only manages to stay interesting because of the random champion, URF doesn't have that.

URF is like the low brow example though.

Ascension is the high end of the spectrum. It's objective based, there are clearly defined goals for the mode beyond "spam buttons, kill people", good map, etc. I would play Ascension, and more than that, playing Ascension would not alter my enjoyment of other game modes.

ARAM isn't random. That's easily fixable, and the mode would benefit immensely from it, but this simply goes back to the issue of alternate game modes not being supported.

QuephaApr 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Name something that ARAM lost in the process of becoming a featured game mode.

ARAM-only accounts nuked the fun out of ARAM.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

ARAM-only accounts nuked the fun out of ARAM.

Agreed. And the problem is so easy to fix. If Riot just gave one shit the game mode would become instantly bearable and more impartial.

ElikainApr 23, 20161 votes

What's this? First you claim Dominion wasn't given attention and now ARAM as well? Tell me, what about Magma Chamber and Twisted Treeline? I can't wait for the answer.

By the way, you're pretty much digging your own grave with these strawman arguments as your games are nothing but URF, Poro Kind and ARAM - "the forgotten game modes" as you'd put it.

IncognonymousApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What's this? First you claim Dominion wasn't given attention and now ARAM as well? Tell me, what about Magma Chamber and Twisted Treeline? I can't wait for the answer.

By the way, you're pretty much digging your own grave with these strawman arguments as your games are nothing but URF, Poro Kind and ARAM - "the forgotten game modes" as you'd put it.

No shit, Sherlock. You clearly don't understand what a Strawman really is. Everything I've said applies to everything not 5v5s on SR.

ElikainApr 24, 20161 votes

I find it hilarious how you managed to complain about certain game modes but then again, you play these game modes exclusively. You're claiming that SR is getting all the attention, which isn't true, and you are not playing SR in any case.

I'm now going to guess that you don't want to play SR because of DQ and then i'll tell you that it looks like you're not happy with League in general because nothing suits your fancy. Riot is not to blame here at all, it's you. You can't find fun in playing League anymore and you keep expecting of Riot to make you have fun.

Having fun is subjective. That means you'll have to find fun yourself.

IncognonymousApr 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I find it hilarious how you managed to complain about certain game modes but then again, you play these game modes exclusively. You're claiming that SR is getting all the attention, which isn't true, and you are not playing SR in any case.

I'm now going to guess that you don't want to play SR because of DQ and then i'll tell you that it looks like you're not happy with League in general because nothing suits your fancy. Riot is not to blame here at all, it's you. You can't find fun in playing League anymore and you keep expecting of Riot to make you have fun.

Having fun is subjective. That means you'll have to find fun yourself.

Normals is boring as fuck. Almost like Riot supporting one map and mode since its inception was a poor plan that inevitably led to long periods of stagnation...

ShonjlApr 22, 20162 votes

I think why people are pissed is because we get reduced amounts of time. Like lets take URF as your example since its the one you mention most.

WE don't know if it will keep repeating or not, So from what little we know since Riot doesn't like telling us anything, we basically get each game mode for only 4 days out of a year instead of 14 days. If that is false and we do keep on repeating, then we get well over those 14 days and that more than makes it fine.

I guess another factor would be people that actually work, since not everyone on League is little 13 year old brats. You could be working those 2 days and literally miss out for over a month until it comes back. That is BS as well, at least when it was 2 weeks, there was no way possible you couldn't play it other than choosing not to.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 22, 20168 votes

Oh no, it's confirmed to repeat. Ascension comes back after One-for-all which basically sets the cycle in motion. Riot hasn't said they're adding or removing modes yet so, basically, it's locked in. Also worth mentioning that (provided it stays in place) URF will appear seven times this year. Four-ish days (Friday-to-Monday morning) means twenty eight days. Which is a lot more time with URF overall comparative to two weeks once a year.

So more URF but spread out over four-day increments over the entire year.

Mistress MadokaApr 22, 20164 votes

^ Give this man a Cookie http://piecrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Cookie1.gif