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When you look at Cassiopeia what do you see? A massive snake lady that most likely is venomous

U4fyn2vZzW··23 votes·1,923 views

When you look at Cassiopeia what do you see? A massive snake lady that most likely is venomous to the core.

What do you get? A stacking champion who's venomous abilities actually do the opposite, ZERO damage (When you get bitten by a snake you shouldn't feel like some pain killers can neutralize the venom you rush your ass to a hospital) and actually in fact make her stronger for some reason. When you get bitten by a fucking snake and its venom is streaming down your veins you're NOT WORRYING ABOUT IF THE SNAKE IS GETTING STRONGER FROM BITING YOU, YOU'RE WORRYING HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO LIVE AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT {All dot's in the game feel like that}. I'll even go as far to say pretend you're a snake and you're hunting for prey, when you bite your target and they scurry off are you wondering how strong you're going to get from biting them and how long will it take in order to hunt them down later or how long it's going to take for them to finally get weak enough for you to kill them and enjoy a meal (Pre-Rework Cassiopeia).

31 Comments

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

I see Cass as she is. You seem to have your own view which is perfectly fine

I see her as MEDUSA, the Greek mythology creature she seemed to have borrowed a lot from, even her background story is heavily influenced. In game she seems to play like a sustained dmg dealer. Her E is her main dmg prerework and post rework. Her Q and W being more of shredders.

Oh and most snakes have no venom

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20090219164329AAxuLnE

U4fyn2vZzW8 votes

Her E was never her main dmg even pre-rework it was more of an icing on the cake you could go in and get a few e's in while the target's health boils away from your poisons but you risked putting yourself in danger because of its range.

Any half-decent Cassiopeia player will tell you that her main source of damage and also most reliable source of damage was her Q. Also, it doesn't matter how many species of snakes have venom because if a snake where on your bed right now would you honestly be worrying if he's venomous or not? Would you?

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

Her E was never her main dmg even pre-rework it was more of an icing on the cake you could go in and get a few e's in while the target's health boils away from your poisons but you risked putting yourself in danger because of its range.

Any half-decent Cassiopeia player will tell you that her main source of damage and also most reliable source of damage was her Q.

No, go look at guides about Cass from S2, when she was popular alongside Karthus. Her E was the main dps tool with the most potential. It's only when Champs like LB, Zed..etc were released and become popular that Cass went from being a hard lane bully to semi bully who lost lane to real bullies like Zed. That's when the Guides changed to explain to players that although E did more overall dmg, Q was more safer and in line with meta where she can poke her opponents down In reality, if you do the math, maxing E did more dmg than Q

Serpents Embrace3 votes

Maxing Q and E is conditional, and it always was before the rework.

E gave you greater DPS, but Q gave you better poke and survivability (through kiting).

THe problem with the rework now is that you utterly lack choices. Your itemization is homogenized because your passive forces you away from CDR items and forces you in to heavy AP items. Your skill choices are just as forced, because your Q and W don't do anything even with the extra skill points in them, so by not maxing E first you're already putting yourself behind.

Stashu took a flexible champion and made her rigid. It doesn't help that the passive change not only screwed her mana, it shackled her with an unfun stacking mini game.

RiotRiot King Cobra3 votes

Maxing Q and E is conditional, and it always was before the rework.

E gave you greater DPS, but Q gave you better poke and survivability (through kiting).

The changes on PBE should make maxing Q entirely viable again although with the flat movespeed I'd argue that you'd max it in situations where you need waveclear. The amplification allows her to put out respectable DPS even if she opts for Q max.

THe problem with the rework now is that you utterly lack choices. Your itemization is homogenized because your passive forces you away from CDR items and forces you in to heavy AP items. Your skill choices are just as forced, because your Q and W don't do anything even with the extra skill points in them, so by not maxing E first you're already putting yourself behind.

I really disagree with this. You should never ever be buying CDR items on Cassio....I'm surprised somebody with the name "Serpents Embrace" would even consider doing that. CDR has always scaled extremely poorly with Cassiopeia. Right now the CDR on the passive only provides the benefit of reducing her Q back to 3 seconds (I really don't think Q should have had its cooldown raised in the first place), and allowing her to throw out more Ws and ultimates. It also makes Twin Fang slightly less punishing to miss. However, anything above 25% is largely wasted. A well played Cassio shouldn't require any CDR at all.

Her itemization has been far from homogenized. While you are 99% of the time required to build a Tear or RoA, the rest of her item choices are largely the same as they were pre-rework. The only item that is no longer considering is Liandry's and, in my opinion, it was always a sub-optimal buy on Cass.

Stashu took a flexible champion and made her rigid. It doesn't help that the passive change not only screwed her mana, it shackled her with an unfun stacking mini game.

On live, her skill order is rigid, I agree with you there. Right now if you max Q you are going to be extremely weak until you get those points in E. However, as I stated above, the amplification should allow her to use Q as a waveclear/poke ability again. If she wants to poke she really only needs to get one or two Twin Fangs off and that should be possible against everybody not named Xerath.

Serpents Embrace3 votes

TT first item core on Cassio was Morellonomicon, as it was on most mages. Her ability to utilize it so well due to Deadly Cadence was one of the reasons she was so prominent.

Go away please, Stashu puppet.

The Queen Viper2 votes

Meh. Unless the enemy had Swain, Mundo, Vlad or Soraka... not sure why would you rush such an item really.

Serpents Embrace1 votes

For the same reason Athene's is top in SR.

First note, TT gives you a mana regeneration effect similar to Chalice, for free, all the time.

Then note, Morellonomicon gives you mana regernation, AP and CDR. It's everything that Athene's gives you except the Chalice passive, which you don't need, and then extra AP on top of that.

For cheaper.

RiotRiot King Cobra4 votes

Morellonomicon wasn't a rush item on Twisted Treeline for Cassio. You didn't need any mana regen on TT with her. Unlike on Summoner's Rift, Rylais' was almost 100% core first item on Twisted Treeline because it basically made 90% of melee champions obsolete against her and her team.

Comparing it to Athene's further solidifies my point - it's also a pretty poor item on Cassio. You are wasting so much gold on the CDR and mana regen (which Cass also doesn't care for that much. 2 Doran's Rings allowed her to regen the mana it took to cast a Q at max DC stacks in the 5 seconds you have before you must cast a spell again).

Serpents Embrace5 votes

Go away please, Stashu puppet.

ScurvyNave8 votes

I have to agree landing her Q was always the primary goal and E was just he bonus

RiotRiot King Cobra2 votes

Her main source of damage was her E. Her Q is and always has been just a tool to enable her Twin Fang spam in fights and to help her kite. Sure, in lane if you maxed Q then it would be your primary source of damage through poke, but as soon as the game extended beyond that if you relied on Q as your main source of damage you were playing Cass wrong. You could get away with staying on the outskirts of a fight throwing out a Q if you REALLY had to avoid going in (they still had important spells up that could kill you), but almost 90% of the time you WOULD be in range for Twin Fang burn somebody. Not being able to do so is akin to not being able to autoattack as an AD carry in a fight. If you can't do it you're probably positioning horribly wrong.

I don't mean to sound harsh, it stinks for people who liked to max Q and poke from range, but when you tell people that "any half-decent Cass player will tell you that her main source of damage and also most reliable source of damage was her Q" you're just spreading mis-information. Even Ginga, who hates the E-focused re-work, admitted that playing old Cass optimally meant making use of her Twin Fang spam. He didn't think it was fun mind you, but Cassio's potential has ALWAYS been in getting the most DPS as possible out via Twin Fang.

Grand Eleven2 votes

Oh and most snakes have no venom

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20090219164329AAxuLnE

Yet the top 10 deadliest snakes in the world (read: most fatalities) are all venomous.

You're right: there are a good number of snakes that have no venom ... but every snake that makes us as people nervous/scared pretty much does. Oh and they are on nearly every major continent (only the frozen wastelands are free of these guys). Everyone reading this post knows of a local venomous snake in their area they need to be wary of. So yes: people think of poison/venom when they think of snakes ... cause that's what likely going to kill them.

Shout out to those of you who also have to worry about massive constrictors ... cause that shit is nutz.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Or let's put it another way.

Snakes are always associated with Poison (not even venom) despite reality saying otherwise.

They are often symbolic of poison. This is where archetypes and symbology of snakes always came from. They're manipulative, cowardly, poisonous. Not the all-in slugfest she is right now.

Sort of like how cockroaches are always associated with filthy disgusting blight to humanity when in reality they are A

a) they are extremely hygienic animals, and they even evolved features specifically to keep themselves clean

and

b) they are the reason many of us are still alive

However, you wouldn't want a Cockroach-champion to be a defender who heal and cleanses allies would you? No, you want an annoying plague spreading freakazoid who bites the enemy's head off.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

When you get bitten by a fucking snake and its venom is streaming down your veins you're NOT WORRYING ABOUT IF THE SNAKE IS GETTING STRONGER FROM BITING YOU, YOU'RE WORRYING HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO LIVE AND WHAT YOU CAN DO TO STOP IT

I've been trying to get across this point for a long loong LOOOOOOONG time.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

ScurvyNave4 votes

Can't we just agree that she's a mixture of both a snake lady and Medusa and that's what made her cool. Her ultimate and her poison in tandem is what made her deadly.

The rework sucked there's no denying it.

Can the idea of a late game stacking ap carry work? Maybe

Riot is working on it? Slowly and probably not towards making her viable.

There all the points of Cass discussed. I used to play her then rework happened and I want to refund all my skins I bought for her item 3070

5G8Nri0B543 votes

The issue with making her based on Medusa is that, there's literally nothing about her except her R. And it's very hard to do much else with the "Medusa"-theme. I mean, I guess the could give Cass snake-hair and give her an ability that lets her snakes autonomously attack enemies without any input from Cass herself.

But if that was the case I'd rather they just make a brand new champion period. In fact, a Medusa champion whose gameplay revolves around orientations between her and the opponent sounds really neat. It'd go beyond a simple R at the very least. But it's not Cassiopeia. Cassiopeia should be the Poison mage...in fact you can hardly even call her a snake mage as Riot literally took out a LOT of the snakes she used to have in an earlier VU.

Can the idea of a late game stacking ap carry work? Maybe

Perhaps not as much on a POISON MAGE though.

If there is one thing to get from the poison archetype. If your character is buffing itself more often than they are de-buffing the enemy, SOMETHING IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG

ScurvyNave2 votes

Very good points and I have to agree that they should have tried the stacking mechanic/AP carry on a new champion rather than on a rework of a champion that many people like. Honestly just a Visual Update and fixes on her cast times would have been fine with me.

Yandere Carry2 votes

I see something that isn't very viable.

yellowbricks2 votes

When I look at Cassiopeia, I see the reason why I'll never buy RP ever again, and the reason I'll encourage as many people as possible to do the same.

Why buy RP for these things that can be taken away and mutilated for no good reason? Save yourself the money and the pain.

Narasimha1 votes

You're... doing it wrong. When you think of 'snake', the first thing you go to isn't 'venom', its 'fang'. And I'm guessing you're not arguing for that.

Zakennayo4 votes

No.. when you think of fang it's from Wolf..

Venom is from spider.

Spineless is for snakes.

ScurvyNave4 votes

In that case Riot's rework on her is actually true to a snake. She's even less viable than before

Grand Eleven3 votes

No.. when you think of fang it's from Wolf..

Venom is from spider.

Spineless is for snakes.

... snakes are vertebrates.

Zakennayo1 votes

oh yeah that was the fish thing without spines..

hmm what for snakes..

Pikmints1 votes

Yeah, I expect something that's able to weaken opponents through poison, but instead she's someone whose able to make herself more powerful through poison. Wat.

When I heard that there was going to be a stacking mechanism on Cass, I thought that it might be more interesting than the current version. Perhaps once a target has received X tics of damage from her, her spells refund some mana against that target. At Y stacks, the afflicted target's cc against her is reduced by 10%. At Z, all of Cass' spells against that target ignore an amount of the target's magic resist.

But no, we get a snake that somehow gets mana back from hitting the enemy Malphite with a spell just because she landed a lot of spells against the team's Fizz. This almost seems more like an ability that would go on a scholar or analyst, learning mystical principles through hitting opponents (a longer term and less rewarding version of Vel'Koz's passive) rather than whittling an opponent down like I imagined a poison champ would do.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

but instead she's someone whose able to make herself more powerful through poison.

Poisoning OTHERS no less!

(for the record, it would somehow make a little more sense if she was growing stronger from poisoning herself...but even then it's stupid as she's supposed to be weakening others, not making herself stronger)

SmokingPuffin1 votes

I agree, passive has bad feels. Feels like a necromancer's passive.

How would you change it to make it feel more snakey?

CaptnJakSparrow1 votes

I really think Cass just needs . . . an entire rework. I don't like anything about her.

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