Here are the problems with shifting defensive stats from health to resists.

kasfas··6 votes·444 views

Health is a generic tank stat, and as such it is effective against all types of damage. The problem however is that anyone who builds health becomes tanky far too easily. Ideally, we would think, if we changed the value of big defensive items to be more focused on their resists, tanky champions wouldn't have such a large first item power spike.

That's great and all, but it comes with many issues. Firstly, in changing the gold per stat efficiency of any defensive item, you need to give it disproportionately more power in its respective defensive stat in order to have the item remain valuable. The reason for this is, since health provided a generic defensive stat, items with health and resists needed to be less effective at defending against any particular one. Having more resists and less health means it needs to be much better at reducing damage of that type to make up for the loss of health or not be nearly as valuable as before. Essentially, champions need to do significantly less damage to enemy champions who build items that have the appropriate resistance to make up for the extra damage that the other damage type can do.

Next, any and all sources of true damage and armour pen have been disproportionately buffed due to smaller health pools. Less health and more resistances means the value of penetration and true damage are much higher than they were initially balanced to be. This should result in inflated winrates of champions with these things innately in their kits. Additionally, although they nerfed penetration on items, the value of pen shoots up so significantly that these items still more than pull their weight in value where the items with stat swaps don't. Also, looking at void staff as they didn't change the % pen at all.

Furthermore, the excess amount of resistances and lack of health lead to unclear scenarios where the person who is the tank isn't as visibly tanky. Having more resistances and less health may work, but they also significantly reduces clarity of tankiness. People with 4000 hp we could tell were tanky because their health bar had more lines in it than those who weren't tanky, but 300 armour on 2000 hp looks like the same tankiness as 50 armour on 2000 hp. Not only does this leave one baffled as to why that 2000 hp malphite won't die, but also leads players of tanks to feel incredibly squishy despite their resistances.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly of all, every CHAMPION in the game was balanced around havinhigher health pools and lower resistances. Not only does this mean a significant number of tanks will likely be disproportionately weaker after the changes, it also makes others disproportionately strong. Any kit with % hp damage does less damage overall, and any champion who relied on a singular tank item for a large portion of their usefulness (every tank builds sunfire, which basically got mega nerfed) are put in a significantly worse spot than before. Any champion kit that relied on flat damage and pen to keep them relevant late game got buffed. And all tanks, who were balanced by getting punished in early lane, are now significantly weaker die to only being able to itemize against one type of damage effectively.Understandably this was going to happen, but as a tank player I feel incredibly unsatisfied playing the game in this state.

(TL;DR)So, there are four major issues with the new system. Resists needs to be significantly more valuable than before, true damage and pen need to be tuned down both in kits and on items, clarity and satisfaction of tankiness has been reduced, and every champion balanced around previous itemization is either much stronger or much weaker than they should be.

Some of these issues are easier to fix than others, like the balance of individual tanks, but others are simply a symptom of the changes made and CAN'T be fixed unless the update was reverted, like the clarity of tankiness. Personally, I'm going to continue attempting to play the game, but from my experience thus far I doubt I will be coming back to it much.

Leave any comments or concerns below, and tell me what you think of the changes.

13 Comments

Fed by Snu Snu3 votes

I know a problem of shifting from health to resists.

This guy Yasuo ignoring resists.

Spoofghoul3 votes

You forgot 1 extremely big problem which will become evident in the days to come and you can already see it in a lot of tanks winrates dropping

Let me clarify

You pointed out a weaker first item spike Usually sunfire as it was the best most well rounded item, it's barely useful now weaker then other first item buys. However since tanks can no longer have a 1 item spike they gain their moment to shine way later into the game The problem is that by the time you get there you already start to fall off you get to 3 items and carries are beginning to deal serious damage and start metling you

Tanks don't really have a good earlygame some better then others but they are slow lack enough sustain don't have kill pressure etc etc and you were not tanky yet. You needed that first completed item to start to become a threat and actually participate in doing things

That is mostly gone now

And with the net durability being the same or lower, and AD itemization getting buffs across the board your lategame got weaker as did your earlygame and early midgame

And with how snowbally the game is you get your 5 minutes of fame and your done basically

Because before that you aren't relevant and after that you are outscaled

FUUUN!

kasfas1 votes

Yes I seem to have left that out. Tanks require having their 1-2 item spike due to the scaling of other classes in the game. Because they now lack this spike, tanks just generally feel underwhelming to play due to falling off after midgame. Tanks also often feel incredibly weak when behind when they used to be balanced around being behind, leaving them in a bad spot if they follow their normal game plans.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

Getting more armor/mr over health is a nerf to flat pen though. You should specify that instead of saying all pen was buffed.

kasfas1 votes

Technically, evert type of innate pen was buffed just by being innate and not having been changed. Though it is arguable that flat pen becomes worse against tanks, but it was bad enough against them anyway.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Technically, evert type of innate pen was buffed just by being innate and not having been changed. Though it is arguable that flat pen becomes worse against tanks, but it was bad enough against them anyway.

Actually, Lethality+Cleaver+LW let Assassins basically oneshot tanks. I think that was a lot of the complaining about too much armor pen.

Sohleks2 votes

I think the point the point was to nerf tank items getting poached by other classes and empower the tank champions themselves.

And yet also reward them late game and not devolve into engage pawns as they always have but even more so in the past several seasons. That was the point of some of the new items. And % pen nerfs.

More needs to be done to keep evening out the playing field. But going in that direction tanks can have awesome end game fantasies too. With others being more traditional focused. This would increase diversity and lower the stress every tank has against the clock and carries have trying to gear up. I'd say that pattern has gotten old after quite a few years.? And could be diminished a bit.

Half of your arguement is "change is bad"

It's true though the frontline versus carry dynamics are far larger than the scope any of the class reworks have been. Only a few tanks were touched and only tank items that gave health (no frozen gauntlet/heart/thornmail changes. and there's no full MR tank item either cough Force of Nature) And then there's the entire bruiser/fighter class and their items. It's a lot to do.

Also tanks as a class need better jungle presence again. But they didn't do that at all really; just tried to overbuff Sejuani. It looks like they tried to push Maokai toward the jungle though. And define Zac. But if cinderhulk was simply in its glory days bruisers would probably just poach it to death again.

kasfas1 votes

Yes it's true that two of my arguments were , in essence, change is bad. However riot tends to not recognize these issues beforehand and take long times correcting for them. I don't want the game to become unplayable until the preseason diver update just because they take so long to fix things.

It's true that they can't afford to buff tanks until they see how the new itemization plays out, but what they definitely can AND SHOULD HAVE DONE was preemptively nerf innate shred and true damage by some amount. Say 10% and work from there, because it feels really incredibly shit to build less health and more armour vs a gangplank with red buff.

FreeVolibear1 votes

TL;Dr

kasfas1 votes

It's in there.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Completely agree. This is why the gold value gained shouldn't break even, it should surpass the breakeven point.

KoKoboto1 votes

Percent armor penetration was nerfed significantly.

You can still effectively itemize against the other damage type, just less so early on.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I would say Health is good against everything. It's better versus AP than AD, due to the normal reasons you'd expect.

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