I think is necessary. People have the mentality that if you don't see a champion being played often(especially if they're immobile and not in the pro scene) that they suck. This is a bad mentality, and people actually underestimate how good Zyra actually is when played well.
JustMyBassCannon7 votesShe's not just underplayed, she's a bit under par. Her passive is still terrible, even compared to someone like Kog'maw.
Fadedpf4 votesShe has three flaws though. Pretty crappy passive with the delay, being a skillshot and gives you no help what so ever when you are alive. Its basically beat by 
's passive. Her base health is a joke. And she is a 325 movement speed champion with no speed up sources at all. I am not saying all of this needs to change because I think she is very strong too but... shes not perfect. 1 touch to one of these problems and she would be perfectly viable and not underestimated at all.
ShadowParker1 votesMobility does not equal power, just an fyi. Every champion should have flaws. So no, they shouldnt be fixed.(Although her passive does need to be changed.)
Fadedpf5 votesMobility is power 100% why would it not be?
LankPants5 votesAnd she is a 325 movement speed champion with no speed up sources at all.
This is the big one. It makes it damn near impossible to play Zyra right now.
A Miss Fortune1 votesI can't be the only one mad that she has some of the highest mana costs in the game on a champion who's entire kits are full of some of the most annoying delays ever. A big issue with her is that she's heavily reliant on skillshots that are extremely easy to dodge (as in you can just walk out of them with their high delay times) and she's punished hard for missing them as in she'll go oom after 3 - 4 abilities.
Q: 95 W: 95/90 (to use the plant) E: 90 R: 140 (whyyyy)
That on top of Zyra not having a passive makes her almost unviable in my opinion. Why pick a zone control mage like Zyra when you can play a brain dead one like Heimerdinger that can AFK and still 1v2, or one like Azir who can also AFK but 1v5 once he hits late game.
The Bearded Bard1 votesThere's a reason for that. She's got an ability that doesn't cost mana and that's where most of her damage comes from. If her mana costs weren't high, she'd be insanely oppressive in lane. That being said, there's no reason for the ult being higher than 100.
A Miss Fortune1 votesHow would her laning phase be oppressive? And no, her W to use the plants cost mana since she has to use abilities on top of it. The only thing she gets out of it otherwise are mini wards.
She's suppose to be a zone control mage, that's like saying it would be bad for ADCs to do damage with their auto attacks because that's their only strength.
If you wanna see what oppressive zone controllers look like, refer to Heimerdinger. You can't win lane against him and if you fall behind against him you're forced to farm behind your turret, and getting your jungler to gank him can easily give him even a further gold advantage over you ending with possibly a double kill.
Zyra on the other hand is different, her Q has a large delay that makes it to where you shouldn't be hit by it unless you're standing totally still, and her E travel time/width isn't the best, on top of that Zyra is ridiculously easy to gank and her plants only last a small period of time before dying, even though they die in 3 auto attacks anyways. On top of that can I just mention that Zyra's plants have a garbage AI unlike Heimerdinger's and the range on her melee plants are terrible.
The Bearded Bard1 votesyou know what, I consistently see you posting complaints about Zyra. News flash: Those of us that play her think she's fine for the most part. The only thing I'd give her is a slight MS increase and a lower ult CD. That's it. If you don't like how she is, there's around 130 other champions you can play.
A Miss Fortune1 votesI complain about Zyra a lot because clearly most people have no idea what she is and I see so many people try to argue about her being overpowered, underpowered, broken, or whatever they want to say and have 0 games played as her. She's my second favorite mid laner to Cassiopeia and I really want to play her without the constant feeling of "Why didn't I just play Azir" or "Why didn't I just play Heimerdinger" because any and every time I'm against a competent player, Zyra fails horribly. List a single strength Zyra has as a zone control Mage that another Mid laner couldn't do and do better.
The Bearded Bard1 votesMore CC than literally every other zone control mage, larger aoe than heimer, azir, ap shaco, cass, and ori, more damage than heimer, less mana extensive than ori, ziggs, and anivia, can tank dragon unlike all other zone control mages other than heimer and ap shaco, stronger early game than anivia, ap shaco, cass and arguably ziggs, can control more than one zone where Ori, azir, cass are limited to one or two, anivia to two, ziggs to two, the only person that can control more zones than zyra is AP Shaco. More impactful ult than most. Can lvl 4 jungle camps while still in lane for minion farming, more range than anivia, ap shaco, heimer, and cass.
Is that enough?
A Miss Fortune1 votesHonestly it sounds good when you say it like that, but when you take in consideration:
More CC than literally every other zone control mage
Zyra only has 2 forms of crowd control, her snare and her ult. You could maybe say the absolutely horrible slow on her extremely low ranged plants.
less mana extensive than ori, ziggs, and anivia
Orianna, Ziggs, and Anivia have lower mana costs, and while you can argue Anivia with her ultimate doesn't, Anivia's main damage is also point and click by the way.
can tank dragon unlike all other zone control mages other than heimer and ap shaco
Dragon one shots all of Zyra's plants.
stronger early game than anivia, ap shaco, cass and arguably ziggs
Zyra's early game is probably one of the weakest of those listed, her abilities do very little damage, she goes oom after using 3 abilities, she's extremely vulnerable to ganks, her plants can easily by walked out of or killed by the enemy minions, and her plants also can force you to over extend. I actually find it interesting people argue Zyra is a powerful early game champion when I only find her early game strengths are her zoning, aside from that I think she does better mid game and late game since her plants synergize extremely well with Liandry's, Rylai's, Luden's, etc.
Also did you know that Zyra's ultimate takes 2 seconds (which is like 1/4th of a teamfight anyways) to even activate It's knockup, which only lasts 1 second.
Chortle1 votes[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Yn7W5Tam,comment-id=00020002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T19:53:08.752+0000) Dragon one shots all of Zyra's plants.
I believe it actually takes 2 shots per plant
The Bearded Bard1 votesAnd all those other things I mentioned don't count, right? Have you ever considered that you might just be bad at the champion?
Anyways, I don't know how to do the whole separation by quotes thing, so I'll just go through them in the order than you had them.
Zyra has a snare, knock-up, and slow. Anivia has a stun and slow, Ori has knock up and slow, ziggs has slow and knock up, heimer has stun, azir's got slow and knock back, shaco's got fear, lux has slow and snare, cass has slow and stun. That's Zyra with three forms of CC and all the rest with two.
Less mana extensive than those three is a true statement. They might have lower costs, but they also have to spam to be effective. Ziggs and Ori have 2 second cds on their Q's, they're more mana hungry than Zyra for sure. Anivia's got the ult. I get by with Zyra building only morellos, can't really do that on any of those other three.
Two shots, not one. Which means you can prep it and have it block around 10 shots while still doing damage to it as well. That's pretty unrealistic though. Realistically, you can have it block 6 shots.
How so? Anivia's got a slower projectile than Zyra's E which you complain about being slow all the time. Her targeted damage is half effective when the enemy wasn't hit by Q or ult. AP Shaco's early game is heavy on mana, relies on a low base E damage and enemy team stupidity, trust me, zyra's is better. Ziggs again, slow ass projectiles and has high mana costs and low damage early on. And finally Cass, who either maxes Q for wave clear, but has less reliable damage, or E for damage and no wave clear. Regardless, Zyra should win this match up by having more range and wave clear.
Did you know that Zyra has a 1.75 second snare? WOW KNOWLEDGE IS GOOD. Also, during that charge time enemies inside take a huge chunk of damage and plants receive increased attack speed. It's more than just a knock up. Also, if you know it has a 2 second charge time, plan accordingly. Sometimes you have to prep a fight before it happens. If I've learned anything from Batman it's that every fight is winnable if you plan accordingly.
A Miss Fortune1 votesI won't say I'm the best Zyra player ever, but I'm definitely fairly good especially for being a person who sucks at Mid lane aside from a couple of Mid laners (Cassiopeia, Orianna, Syndra, Zyra, Kassadin, Leblanc, and Azir). I've also used a ton of different builds on her, including one Chortle, the Boards' Zyra main suggested (which is by far the best).
Zyra's snare is fair to hit and the duration is pretty nice, but her knockup and slow are almost never used. Why even use her melee plants when Rylai's exists, and it feels like the only reason to be hit by Zyra's knockup is if you're AFK. I think Anivia has more CC simply because her slow is instant and the area it hits is pretty big with a really low cooldown.
The thing about Zyra's E and Anivia's Q, is that her Q sets up for her E to do double damage and if her Q did have a reasonable travel time I think we would see Anivia as a top tier Mid laner. I'm not mad about Zyra's E at all and I think It's the most reasonable part of her kit, a good Zyra will hit it a lot, the thing I don't like is her Q and Ult which has .625 and 2 second delays (Her passive too). Regardless of the skill of the Zyra, people can simply walk out of it and there's no excuse not to if you're not CC'ed.
The Bearded Bard1 votesThat's why you've got to lead it. You can't just aim directly on top of them and pray they don't move. It's called a skillshot for a reason, if it was instant, it'd just be another point and click. You've also got cc to keep them where you want them, and a plant spawn that makes it so you don't have to hit every ability to do damage.
Honestly, I'd say Zyra's in a good spot right now. Would I like her old nerfs to be reverted? Some of them, yes, but definitely not all of them. If I were them, I'd revert the width nerf to the passive, buff her movement speed to 330, and lower her ult mana cost to a flat 100 at all ranks. On top of that, I wouldn't mind upping her passive cdr to 15%, but that's asking for a bit much.
A Miss Fortune1 votesThe difference between her E and her Q is obvious, a good Zyra player can hit her E and will hit it a lot more than a bad Zyra, but her Q relies solely on the enemy making mistakes. Without a fair amount of CC on the enemy, you just walk right out of it especially with boots. There's no reason to be hit with it.
I think Zyra needs buffs, and reverting her old nerfs is obviously a bad idea because of her being one of the best Mid laners/champion to ever exist on release and all of that, but yeah she needs buffs. She isn't really that great or even viable in higher elo I would say due to her huge delays and having some of the worst base stats in the game. She does really well with items, but no one will pick her as a late game zone control mage over Azir in their right mind.
Chortle1 votesyou should try zyra jungle! It's so fun :D
The Bearded Bard1 votesHa, in a full fives it's great, but for some reason in solo my teammates have trouble cooperating. It's always 'Nah man, if zyra jungle is so great you don't need a leash.' Same thing happens when I break out the Karma jungle.
People are dicks.
Chortle1 votesTRUE!!
I ask for a hard leashe as nice as possible, but I have gotten a few that are just like "you chose that champion for jungle now suffer the consequences!"
Which I don't really understand. They kinda are just screwing their team by not autoing a creep like 3 times.
Idk usually higher level players are okay with it, but silver-gold all wanna troll for some reason or assume I am trolling
Chortle1 votestry her with MS quints
it makes up for her low base MS
Saianna3 votesZyras dmg is fine She has nice CC Her passive (even though it's worse version of Kogs) is fine too
Only 2 things I'm unhappy with in her kit are:
(Still plants HP mechanic beats Shacos JitB by a long shot)
Ser Garland2 votesHer passive (even though it's worse version of Kogs) is fine too
She has the worst passive in league.
Saianna1 votesthat's not true....
AscendedxBlade1 votesher passive is the only thing other then that early wards a lock down and body blocking plants
Saphixia1 votesI went against a zyra who got fed (as support) and whos combo could basically take our whole team to half health
The Great Divide1 votesVery true. I faced an Akali who picked mid thinking I was going support. Let's say that by 15 minutes in, their Janna was typing in all chat "Apparently we're playing a game called feed the Zyra." Sure she is tougher to do well with and is squishy, but against the right people she's brutal.
VDc0zCqe0w1 votesZyra is a bad champion since 3.13
G2 Fans1 votesI just did as much damage as an entire team as Zyra mid ALONE. Even fed, most other mages can't do that.
Chortle1 votesShe's not top-tier in regards to mid lane or support right now, but I agree with OP.
Just because she's not one of the FoTM OP champs does not mean she sucks.
Current Statistics for plat+ ranked:
Support: 52% winrate (2% play rate) - Her winrate spikes to 54% after 100+ games
Mid: 52% winrate (.68% play rate) - Her winrate spikes to 54% in games lasting longer than 40 minutes
She is in a decent spot with players that know how to play around her weaknesses (there are quite a few).
The Bearded Bard1 votesWhile Zyra's passive doesn't exactly feel smooth, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't useful. I'd say at least half of my deaths also give me a kill with the passive, the reason it has a delay is so it's not an auto-hit if you land an E before death.
Matezoide1 votesIf Zyra got buffed, she would be the new Lux.
''But muh passive'' shut the hell up, she is balanced around having a crappy passive with a very powerful kit that does insane amounts of damage. Might as well complain about Leona's passive.
Zyra is fine, she is just out of the meta right now. A few meta shifts in her favor are the only thing she needs to go back to being FOTM. Did you people forget how powerful she was previously?
Lugg1 votesAgreed, she is a very solid champ if you know how to play her.
are in that category as well.
