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I have a hard time picturing courage of the colossus being used as much as i originally thought

Ben Sharpio··11 votes·4,647 views

I thought long and hard about it, and came to the realization that even if you're playing a champion with hard CC, you still have to survive the laning phase. Grasp of the undying is one of the biggest helping hands that a melee champ can use since you can sustain considerably well with it.

Grasp helps melee's trade and manages to help them be able to stay in lane longer. The 4 second span between heals is what allows it to be used effectively.

With that being said, courage of the colossus doesn't seem to be as viable as i thought. Whether you want to admit it or not,** you still have to survive the laning phase to useful**. Courage of the Colossus is not going to be as effective as Grasp.

The shield and the cooldown are pretty lackluster when you compare it to grasp, and how much you get from it.

With the 30 second cooldown between shields, any smart laner will abuse their fighting power gained from their offensive masteries to chip you down,

31 Comments

Ralanr5 votes

I can see it being run on tank junglers.

LankPants4 votes

Tank junglers still lose out when compared to SoA though. SoA effectively healed tanks for 20 HP every time they killed a camp since they'd gain the 20 HP as current HP, not just max. This means after a full clear tanks had an extra 120 HP thanks to SoA, even more for some tanks like Sion, Sejuani and Naut who had immediate benefits from the HP they were gaining.

Personally, I'm fine with it as a tank jungle player, mostly because I never ran SoA in the first place. I have always pathed in a way that made me not need the extra 120 HP from first clear on SoA and took the extra late game power on Grasp, so when playing in this paticular style Courage of the Colossus is very good. It still has problems on tanks who have very unhealthy clears however, more niechy junglers like Maokai will be hit huge by this, I think Hecarim will also have major problems.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

You got 10HP per jungle camp, 20 HP per cannon minion.

It was only 60 HP on your first clear (excluding Scuttle Crabs).

LankPants1 votes

My bad, thought it was the other way around. As I said I rarely use it.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

It doesn't help that the wording in the tooltip is rather misleading.

Kilanost1 votes

{quoted}

Tank junglers still lose out when compared to SoA though. SoA effectively healed tanks for 20 HP every time they killed a camp since they'd gain the 20 HP as current HP, not just max. This means after a full clear tanks had an extra 120 HP thanks to SoA, even more for some tanks like Sion, Sejuani and Naut who had immediate benefits from the HP they were gaining.

Personally, I'm fine with it as a tank jungle player, mostly because I never ran SoA in the first place. I have always pathed in a way that made me not need the extra 120 HP from first clear on SoA and took the extra late game power on Grasp, so when playing in this paticular style Courage of the Colossus is very good. It still has problems on tanks who have very unhealthy clears however, more niechy junglers like Maokai will be hit huge by this, I think Hecarim will also have major problems.

I'm loving this on everyone I've tried it on especially tanks with hard engage tools. The enemy team burns their cool downs on your shield instead of your health or your squishy carries. It's team fight value in that regard far surpasses strength of the ages. It's also allowed me to start throwing in a damage item in games I normally wouldn't have been able to which makes ignoring me after I engage a really bad idea.

I think that was the idea behind it too. It's essentially a mastery that gets its best use in a team fight. If so, job well done in that regard riot.

Now as far as jungle sustain goes, yea this has hurt quite a bit on a few of my champs. On sejuani the clear is very unhealthy and against aggressively played enemy jungle champs I have to back after half my jg to minimize the possibility of getting ranked when I normally would have been OK. I also have to skip a camp fairly often. This is all assuming I have camps left after the enemy jungler has cleared his jg and moved on to mine as I'm walking back to lane from backing after my first half jg. With spawn rates lower on jg camps, the ability to quickly collect your jg farm is more important than ever. The scaling of monster difficulty also has forced me to spend more time than ever in the jungle on many champs while also needing to heal after farming much later in the game.

The health of jungle clears seems to be tiering the junglers more than I would have expected as my inability to clear my jungle quickly leaves camps on the map longer for the enemy to take which is in effect feeding the enemy jubgler. Additionally, every other lane can farm without taking heaps of damage from their farm, why take the only role this is not true for and amplify it by removing the jg sustain mastery while also increasing jg camp scaling.

We are going to hit a point when the lanes realize how low the health of certain junglers gets while farming and people are just going to focus on getting kills on the jubgler as they're still relatively high health from farming lane minions and have starter items that actually help in PvP as opposed to junglers who are force to start every game spending 350 gold on an item that has no use against other players. (Effectively a huge early game imbalance that is easily abused by a teemo sitting in the bush by blue). Then everyone else is going to catch on and before you know it were back to the dark ages of duo top lanes. No bueno.

To get back on message, the jg situation right now is not functioning well for many champions who are being out classed hard early on by power farming junglers with healthy clears. If these changes stick, expect a huge increase in udyr and shyvanna picks because champs like them will essentially get to farm 1.5 jungles to the enemy's 0.5. Or they get to exert twice as much map presence which also leads to a massive imbalance. Can't gank at low health after all.

The jungle being fairly easy to clear without taking too much damage was what made the inherent imbalance between junglers PvE ability less. If you keep the current jg and masteries as is, you will need to go through all the junglers and somehow balance their clears without changing their PvP balance.

Easy fix: bring back the old jg and courage of the colossus (managed to get back to the original point after all) giving no sustain in the jg becomes unimportant. And holy crap take the damn plants out before I switch to maining top and use them constantly to out sustain my enemies by taking the honey fruit and going back after a trade and clear. Easy to see how ridiculous they are when people start doing that. Also doesn't help that my team mates can shoot me into the middle of the enemy Team completely accidentally/trolling their faces off. While we're at it lets pick Trundle and roam around the map interrupting our allies as they try to back or use channeled abilities.

The vision plant can stay as I haven't figured out a way to completely abuse that one yet.

EDIT: goddamn Adderall....

LankPants5 votes

As someone who runs Grasp of the Undying on Sejuani because it's just better than Strength of Ages mid-late game I'm liking the mastery. I am however the absolute best case for this mastery, I'd certainly agree that it's probably terrible on top laners, maybe the CD should tick down 2 seconds for every second in combat to help with this.

RocketRelm1 votes

I feel like Zac will also benefit a lot, as he doesn't even remotely need it for the clear hp, and the extra soak is going to be 'amazing' when you E into their team for a pick.

The DrBonjigollo4 votes

I want to see how high the shield is on Ekko when he lands W. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

JackMcSnipeyz3 votes

If the only reason you win lane is grasp, you have bigger problems than deciding masteries. The new mastery is for CC heavy champs, nautilus, leona maybe, maoki etc.. It's a very good keystone for teamfights, it's better for lategame. What do you prefer? Teamfight presence? Or lane bullying?

ArbiterOfTruth2 votes

I could definetly see it being used on Leona. I currently use Bond of Stone when I take her support so I can take CotC and Knight's Vow and she easily has enough CC to make use of the mastery.

Unpaladin1 votes

Well to be fair, in 1v1 scenarios Grasp should always come out on top. Just don't forget that Courage has a bonus when against multiple enemies and will likely get a buff to its uptime in the future. Sucks about the lack of sustain though.

Wolftastic331 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nova Force,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiIVI37h,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-25T05:08:52.108+0000)

Well to be fair, in 1v1 scenarios Grasp should always come out on top. Just don't forget that Courage has a bonus when against multiple enemies and will likely get a buff to its uptime in the future. Sucks about the lack of sustain though.

Vi will get a 10 + 45% Max hp + lvl*10 if she ults into the middle of a team!

Unpaladin1 votes

That is super good and actually totally good for competitive. If you can stomach not having Thunderlords of course. Nice.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

You want to know who's gonnaa use courage of the colossus?

Bruiser Diana, that's who. And maybe bruiser yasuop.

I might take it on Nocturne too.

Prob not tho. The other trees scale so much better.

Randomonium1 votes

Glad someone else is catching on. Been messing around with it on Diana on the PBE. It makes her laning phase more difficult but her late game is so much more powerful. You don't even have to go bruiser for it to be effective. With the Arcsecond build (roa, nashors, death cap, etc) the shield you can proc with courage of the colossus can be over 1,000 hp in a late game team fight. A Diana with over 600 AP and a 1,000 hp shield (on top of her 400+ hp shield from her W) is absolutely terrifying for squishy champs.

I'll probably make a YouTube video on it by the end of the week. I wouldn't call it broken but it is definently very strong and I prefer it over thunderlords now.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

Yep, thought so ;P

Randomonium1 votes

In case you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-47DJktK1w

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

In case you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-47DJktK1w

Great video. You have a teeeensy mistake. All of the damage upgrades are multiplicative.

And the armor upgrades also make shields stronger as well. So that's multiplicative as well.

Doesn't change your argument, but what that means is something closer to 20% bonus damage (of course assuming squishy) vs 125-150% effective HP.

I like the video though. I think people would probably be interested in seeing more, though you'd be competing with LoLMath.

Also after the path hits I'm about 95% sure I'm gonna switch to Diana. I just need to figure out how to reiably land her R-Q midair combo (aka instant ulti combo).

When sandbox mode comes out that's gonna be a lot easier :D

Randomonium1 votes

Yeah I knew that all of them had multiplicative interactions but for simplicity's sake I dumbed it down a bit (people's eyes start to cross when you talk about math too much.) Maybe I should have added a sentence about that though. I didn't want to act completely biased but I was trying to show that the effective HP gained from the resolve tree was much larger than the extra damage you get (even if you were using a build that gave you nearly 700 AP.)

Thanks for the complement.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

There are enough mathematicians out there that you don't need to worry too much about that :P

6Sfool1 votes

I don't know about colossus not working well in lane, especially with botlane tanks. When I play Braum, I start with a lot of health regen. About 5/sec. I don't really need grasp's heal that much, since i might proc it 5 times in the entire laning phase. I do get a couple stuns off, and when I do I usually need more durability to keep fighting or to back off safely.

Oleandervine1 votes

What kind don't like is that the loss of SOA hamstrings support tanks, who really benefitted from that bonus HP because it helped allow them to be more efficient with itemization. As like Kench, I could opt to build one less HP item in lieu of something like Zz'Rot Portal because I would make up the difference with SOA. Now that's up in smoke, and there really isn't a valid replacement for tanky supports that isn't overly aggressive. Courage is nice and all, but not as overly helpful. This is further complicated by the removal of HP from the Aegis of the Legion line of items.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

You can pick someone like Darius and be guaranteed to have at the very least a safe lane phase if you so choose and still be able to reap the benefits of a late courage of the colossus.

cope moment1 votes

courage of the colossus is actually riot secretly praising the sun Leona Leona Leona

All Of Humanity1 votes

{quoted}

courage of the colossus is actually riot secretly praising the sun Leona Leona Leona

As a Leona main with over 500k points and Level 7, I was on cloud 9 when I read this keystone. The ability to abuse this is insane.

The Deckowner1 votes

It will be either support or jg mastery, but as jungle with SOTA removed it is better just go an offensive mastery for extra ganking dmg rather than a shield when ganking, so it will be basically a support mastery.

Drakylon1 votes

I can see Courage of the Colossus being useful on aggressive tank supports such as Alistar, Leona and (to a lesser extent) Braum. 14% of your max hp is nothing to scoff at, and those champions aren't proccing Grasp too often.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

It's more for jungers and supports that don't have to 1v1 just to farm (or pseudo-farm for supports), and has a good deal of late game/teamfight utility.

So you are right, it's not that everyone would use it or anything, and that's good too.

FatedSaviour1 votes

ok, courage of collosus they are not specifically talking about using it on tanks, you use it on people who engage so they have a defensive option while the team catches up, tank kled, sion, sej, but not people whose stun is too long to ourlast the sheild, zac, morganna, so its all about are you the engager, or do u want offensive power also good to see sion becoming meta, especially since when i first played him, no one else played him, it took me until halfway through s6 to find another sion player, the veteren sions are those who start dorans instead of corrupting, those who start corrupting are underexperienced

Sad Flute Boi1 votes

One month later... CoC is used on lane bullies because of how greatly it synergizes with their short trades.

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