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Brand Has so many problems that I cant even think of a Brand new Joke

Poske··6 votes·2,318 views

Lets take a look what Riot though Brand should be and what he actually is

**First of all As a High elo Midlane Main with 200 games on brand I think I know what I am talking about. **

**Brand was DESIGNED to be a combo mage with tons of aoe damage. He also has that %hp passive... **

Brand issues

-Mana hungry -Short to medium range (That E range nerf was horrible, yeah I remember it) -NO Mobility On top of having stupidly long cast times (As a syndra main this feels so bad ..) -Extremly item dependent. You have to rush Rylai and lyandri On a champion which requires cdr and mana regen. So if you build like that when are you going to get rabadon ? As a 5th item? Seriously Brand stupid Dot passive eats his power budget so bad. IF mana regen runes were good this wouldnt be a problem -REALLY CONDITIONAL AOE DAMAGE which is underwelming even if you hit everything -Somehow pathetic waweclear for a mage (which is funny since he is aoe mage) -Combo mage ? As a Le bl main I laught to this since Le bl is fine example of a champion with tons of viable combos

Seriously what are brand strenghts?

-High aoe damage? Well you would think so But for example syndra does more aoe damage on top of having singletargeted burst -Range? YES sure he has bigger range then garen -Waveclear? Ehm He must group all the minions in one place and then take them out with w > e which is pathetic -What about 2 second stun? It requires setup and syndra has aoe stun which can pick off from 1300 range. Also cleanse qss -But what about passive %hp? Well that passive is the reason why he has meh scallings and base dmg while having quite high cooldowns. And trust me 8% hp as magic dmg is nothing much since at 100 ressist it becomes 4% of max hp. Seriously you guys see %hp dmg and think its OP. (There is a reason why none built madreds bloodrazor except ww )

**Brand is Curently outclassed by Syndra Xerath and Viktor by far **

**But what about brand support? ** Yeah lets pick a champion which depends on items so bad while all he offers is a conditional stun -.-. But he Makes lots of money with spellthiefs !!!. Yeah you wont earn over 1200 gold with brand (Mostlikely it ll be 500)... and you are still a support So sighstone + 2 items ll be your lategamebuild.

But brand winrate is actually good? EDITED since people got confused

-Yeah his winrate is good but his pickrate is pathetic which pretty much explains his winrate since he is mostly played by brand mains . All the rest figured out that he is outclassed by so many mages so they stoped maining him

Brand is certainly not viable enough . When was the last time you saw him in compettetive play? Like 2 years ago right? He is outclassed by to many mages ...

Does Riot have any plans for brand? He excells at nothing while being underwelming at everything He needs a rework so he can fullfill the aoe combo mage fantasy...

31 Comments

Gigahappytown3 votes

lol its funny because brand is one of the most broken mages right now and syndra is one of the worst mages who is outclassed by not 1 not 2 but THREE other mages

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

lol its funny because brand is one of the most broken mages right now and syndra is one of the worst mages who is outclassed by not 1 not 2 but THREE other mages

Who outclasses syndra? I am actually curious

Gigahappytown2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-09-29T02:16:02.989+0000)

Who outclasses syndra? I am actually curious

viktor veigar and to some extent brand

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

viktor veigar and to some extent brand

Viktor and syndra are similar however there are reasons to pick syndra over viktor and vise versa

Syndra has this over viktor -Can actually pick off Q>E LONG ranged stun ussualy turns into an engage/kill -Lanebully -Buff control

Viktor has this over syndra -Shield -Mini speed buff -A bit better zone since his w and r stay on the field

Veigar is just hardcountered by to many champions I do agree that he is viable since the last buff but he doesnt outclass syndra

Veigar is lategame Sydnra is midgame

And syndra would buly the fuck out of veigar

Dont forget that veigar is a stacking champion. Its hard to make those work in lcs. We would probably see some swaps against veigar > Send 2 people vs him so he cant stack

Brand is worse then syndra in every freaking possible way. Listed somewhere in this thread

Gigahappytown1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T02:33:37.226+0000)

Viktor and syndra are similar however there are reasons to pick syndra over viktor and vise versa

Syndra has this over viktor -Can actually pick off Q>E LONG ranged stun ussualy turns into an engage/kill -Lanebully -Buff control

Viktor has this over syndra -Shield -Mini speed buff -A bit better zone since his w and r stay on the field

Veigar is just hardcountered by to many champions I do agree that he is viable since the last buff but he doesnt outclass syndra

Veigar is lategame Sydnra is midgame

And syndra would buly the fuck out of veigar

Dont forget that veigar is a stacking champion. Its hard to make those work in lcs. We would probably see some swaps against veigar > Send 2 people vs him so he cant stack

Brand is worse then syndra in every freaking possible way. Listed somewhere in this thread

you forgot to mention how viktor and veigar have: better burst better poke better stuns better sustained damage better aoe

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

you forgot to mention how viktor and veigar have: better burst better poke better stuns better sustained damage better aoe

-All 3 have pretty much the same burst. Unless we are talking about veigar with 1000 ap vs mage -Syndra has the best poke (WQ,QEW) though viktor laser is quite cheesy xd . Veigar poke is pathetic.. he is the one getting poked you should ntpoke with veigar... its the mana waste just stack ap

-Its hard to talk about stuns since they are all really diffrent.

Syndra stun can pick off from highest range and her stun actually does damage. She can also stun everyone with R>E she also has the knockback (You can tehnicly both knockback and stun)

Veigar has the longest stun (at max rank atleast) And his stun has the biggest impact however it does no damage and you can just stay inside it..

Viktor stun becomes implosion which is huge.. it also slows and does no damage. His stun is the weakest from those 3 IMHO. Veigar stun is probably the strongest however I didnt mention it since they all serve diffrent purpose and are all pretty much equal

Syndra has the best sustained damage. Seriously her cooldowns are like 4-6 seconds (With core build ) on everything and all of her abilities do damage However viktor is quite close to her in terms of sustained damage. He does do bettersingletarget sustained damage since after veigar and syndra use their ulti they do less single target damage while fed viktor can just Q>E>AA 100>0

Ehm better aoe? Well Viktor after E>R lacks aoe

Veigar only has 2 abilties for aoe (1 only hits 2 targets)

At start of fight viktor has the best aoe later on in the fight syndra does

I am 100% sure syndra isnt outclassed

Fiveofswords3 votes

Brand is strong. he actually does do a lot of aoe damage. the things you are saying are false.If you ever watch high level games you should check out vman...i dont think he has a stream but jsut in the high level games they have in lobby he shows up a lot and he plays brand quite a lot and dominates with him. might help you have ideas how to play brand.

you do not need to rush landri, thats a late game pick up. rylais is cool but not necessary, i do like getting it early but its not so important. the way you deal with mana is quite simple either get blue buff or be sparing about when you cast...you cant spam with him.

more than any other mage i know of, brand benefits a huge amount from mpen. I use a seperate runpage for him where i use +12 flat mpen on brand with runes. this is key...his burn passive is unaffected by ap, but DOES scale with mpen. At lower levels ive noticed that people tend to be a bit surprised in lane about how much damage the burn passive does if you ahve a lot of penetration, you can often get fed in lane from this. Against more experienced people you probably wont necessarily get kills but you could deprive people of a lot of farm, i assume.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Brand is strong. he actually does do a lot of aoe damage. the things you are saying are false.If you ever watch high level games you should check out vman...i dont think he has a stream but jsut in the high level games they have in lobby he shows up a lot and he plays brand quite a lot and dominates with him. might help you have ideas how to play brand.

you do not need to rush landri, thats a late game pick up. rylais is cool but not necessary, i do like getting it early but its not so important. the way you deal with mana is quite simple either get blue buff or be sparing about when you cast...you cant spam with him.

Brand is not strong enough to viable in high elo Rylai is a must Lyandri is a must Those items are such a must that brand players skip nomicon and just go double doran into them ...

SERIOUSLY I dont need tips for brand.. I need him reworked since in the current state he offers nothing unique

Fiveofswords1 votes

i just dont think this is true. ask some world class player if he is viable.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

i just dont think this is true. ask some world class player if he is viable.

I asked many challengers they all say he is outclassed. But yeah his winrate is suprisingly good but then again there are no challenger brand mains...

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Well, duh, most mid laners are outclassed by Azir, Viktor, and Ezreal. The only ones after them that are even closely viable are LeBlanc, Lulu, maybe Orianna.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Well, duh, most mid laners are outclassed by Azir, Viktor, and Ezreal. The only ones after them that are even closely viable are LeBlanc, Lulu, maybe Orianna.

Ezreal- as AP No longer viable at all (There is no Runeglaive bullshit anymore Azir-Got nerfed (doesnt outclass anymore) Viktor - got nerfed (doesnt outclass anymore)

Oriana is Overpowerd atm (Just wait for lcs) Pretty sure we ll see some le bl Lulu is high priority yeah since she is a flex pick

LadyRenly1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T02:41:05.156+0000)

Ezreal- as AP No longer viable at all (There is no Runeglaive bullshit anymore

Lol you realize AP mid Ezreal was a thing before runeglaive, right? The change of runeglaive didn't change anything

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

Lol you realize AP mid Ezreal was a thing before runeglaive, right? The change of runeglaive didn't change anything

Ap ezreal was a thing yes. However if you picked that in ranked I would personaly wish you cancer...and I wouldnt be only one . It was a tier 5 pick at best which basicly means troll level

You seem to judge by Siv HD

I played 10 games with runeglaive ez and stoped every one of them.... While before with ap ez I had trouble doing anything he did have good damage in lategame with his ultimate but the thing was matches dont last 60 minutes

Penns2 votes

item 3116 Brand OP, Redmercy approves Kappa

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

item 3116 Brand OP, Redmercy approves Kappa

THE NEW BRAND META rylai on brand NEW CORE ITEM #redmercy 2015

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T21:11:17.039+0000)

But brand winrate is actually good? -Yes it is Because there are like 5 brand mains in the world . All the rest figured out that he is outclassed by so many mages

His win rate is high even with inexperienced players.

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-28T22:36:31.576+0000)

His win rate is high even with inexperienced players.

And that proves what?

Brand is still trash pick ..

Bad players do in average good with him ? So what champion is quite easy.. there are like 5 viable brand combos..

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-29T00:31:06.368+0000)

And that proves what?

Brand is still trash pick ..

Bad players do in average good with him ? So what champion is quite easy.. there are like 5 viable brand combos..

You said his win rate is high because of "5 mains", yet his win rate is 51% with people who only played 5 games. It goes up to 55~58% depending on whether it's mid or support. "Trash" champions don't win games, especially not with bad players. Perhaps you should not build a Tear on him, of course if you don't know how to build proper items any champion will seem bad.

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T00:39:50.350+0000)

You said his win rate is high because of "5 mains", yet his win rate is 51% with people who only played 5 games. It goes up to 55~58% depending on whether it's mid or support. "Trash" champions don't win games, especially not with bad players. Perhaps you should not build a Tear on him, of course if you don't know how to build proper items any champion will seem bad.

  1. When I said there are 5 BRAND mains I MEANT THAT no one fcking plays this champion. I dont know how thats not clear..
  2. His winrate in plat + is actually 52.25 and it doesnt mean shit .. because Only dedicated players play him.
  3. Trash champions dont win games especially not with bad players???? Mate he is absolute garbage tier and thast why I want him reworked
  4. I build 2 dorans > rylai > lyandri > whatever.. One game I go tear and you judge me by that... I got 200 games on brand and i am higher elo then you are ..
Sir Yamazuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T01:02:29.636+0000)

  1. When I said there are 5 BRAND mains I MEANT THAT no one fcking plays this champion. I dont know how thats not clear..
  2. His winrate in plat + is actually 52.25 and it doesnt mean shit .. because Only dedicated players play him.
  3. Trash champions dont win games especially not with bad players???? Mate he is absolute garbage tier and thast why I want him reworked
  4. I build 2 dorans > rylai > lyandri > whatever.. One game I go tear and you judge me by that... I got 200 games on brand and i am higher elo then you are ..

His win rate would not be 52% if only dedicated players played him, it would be almost 58% as a support if you ignored any non-brand main and over 55% as a mid laner.

You're low Diamond on EUNE, I don't play soloq and even then I typically go against high plat/D5 anyways. You're also losing normal games to silver/gold players, so don't even bother throwing that rank nonsense when you're hardly above me while losing to low elo players._ You also aren't even playing him in ranked..._

Poske1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-29T02:37:08.428+0000)

His win rate would not be 52% if only dedicated players played him, it would be almost 58% as a support if you ignored any non-brand main and over 55% as a mid laner.

You're low Diamond on EUNE, I don't play soloq and even then I typically go against high plat/D5 anyways. You're also losing normal games to silver/gold players, so don't even bother throwing that rank nonsense when you're hardly above me while losing to low elo players._ You also aren't even playing him in ranked..._

What an actual fuck? I am diamond for seasons..

I capped Diamond 1 with 80lp at the start of season (I was 500th on THE entire server at the time according to lolking ranking) Euw only has better master and chall then Eune.. Yeah 58% winrate means that he would win 16% more games in average.. you do realise THAT? freaking 16?

Why the fuck would I play him in ranked. He is more boring then my other mains on top of being worse then them.. I used to play him in previous seasons though

IN normal games I am in +300 (300 more wins then loses) I Dont remember last time I lost mid vs silver/ gold player but it can happen ... (Smurfs excist btw)

Jbels1 votes

Pfft, you're Bardly even trying with that joke

insaiyanbacca1 votes

hes actually got decent winrates in inexperienced players fairly high going by most inexperienced winrates, and one thing thats stupid about him imo is he can zone nearly any lane opponent from cs'ing and your entirely screwed by him if you take a melee mid

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

hes actually got decent winrates in inexperienced players fairly high going by most inexperienced winrates, and one thing thats stupid about him imo is he can zone nearly any lane opponent from cs'ing and your entirely screwed by him if you take a melee mid

You dont play mid often do you? What if I told you Le bl syndra xerath etc zone 5x times harder same with

Infact I have no idea how the fuck can brand zone you unless you are melee .. and even then..

Kat Head1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T21:11:17.039+0000)

Why would you pick brand over syndra xerath and viktor . I dont see a reason at all

Because he is super fun to play. Not everyone picks and plays a champion only based on there available power.

I play Katarina and her counters in lane phase are far more numerous than brands could ever hope to be. Brand has good base damage and solid ap scaling while having a really good passive for the current meta. item 3165 item 3116 item 3151 item 3020 + Whatever

Brand support does not need item 3165 due to Meditation (its really good). item 2049 item 3020 item 3116 item 3151 + You probably will not get much more gold than this.

Leave Brand alone, also bring back old xerath.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiHE7thc,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-28T21:11:17.039+0000)

(There is a reason why none built madreds bloodrazor except ww )

That's because Madred's Bloodrazor was the most cost-inefficient item in existence, costing more than 1000 gold more than the stats were worth. The 4% HP damage on-hit was magic, which meant it was automatically reduced at least to 3% max HP by MR, because the champions who would consider building it don't take MR Pen or Shred. Compare it to BotRK, which has the same AD and AS, Lifesteal, approximately double the proc strength and an active %HP+%MS steal. Oh, and it's only slightly less cost-efficient before the passive and active, as opposed to MBR losing 1/3 of its gold value for the proc. And it also has Lifesteal, which is useful.

MBR was shit.

**Brand is Curently outclassed by Syndra Xerath and Viktor by far **

That depends on what you want in a mage.

More outright single-target burst? Syndra. "But she-" Has AoE on her spells, yes, but most of her AoE is smaller than Brand's, as much as you'd like to believe otherwise.

Better sniping? Xerath.

More team utility? Viktor.

Brand is a champ you pick when you want to chip away at their health before it's time to blow shit up. Just tagging someone with any of your burst will tend to deal more than enough consistent damage to be worth it. Average champion HP is 500-2000 without items, so a passive that generates an extra 40-160 damage for every spell that lands is not bad.

Brand unleashes utter chaos on groups of enemies. His entire purpose is to either obliterate fools that group up or force the enemy team to scatter, depending on the level of their intellect. You play Brand when you want to feel like the living incarnation of fire.

Would I be opposed to Brand buffs? Hell no, my favorite mage getting stronger would be awesome. But he was already indirectly buffed with the AP itemization changes; Rabadon's became less of a be-all-end-all item, AP items have been equalized in general, and Luden's Echo is a very welcome addition to his arsenal.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

That's because Madred's Bloodrazor was the most cost-inefficient item in existence, costing more than 1000 gold more than the stats were worth. The 4% HP damage on-hit was magic, which meant it was automatically reduced at least to 3% max HP by MR, because the champions who would consider building it don't take MR Pen or Shred. Compare it to BotRK, which has the same AD and AS, Lifesteal, approximately double the proc strength and an active %HP+%MS steal. Oh, and it's only slightly less cost-efficient before the passive and active, as opposed to MBR losing 1/3 of its gold value for the proc. And it also has Lifesteal, which is useful.

MBR was shit.

That depends on what you want in a mage.

More outright single-target burst? Syndra. "But she-" Has AoE on her spells, yes, but most of her AoE is smaller than Brand's, as much as you'd like to believe otherwise.

Better sniping? Xerath.

More team utility? Viktor.

Brand is a champ you pick when you want to chip away at their health before it's time to blow shit up. Just tagging someone with any of your burst will tend to deal more than enough consistent damage to be worth it. Average champion HP is 500-2000 without items, so a passive that generates an extra 40-160 damage for every spell that lands is not bad.

Brand unleashes utter chaos on groups of enemies. His entire purpose is to either obliterate fools that group up or force the enemy team to scatter, depending on the level of their intellect. You play Brand when you want to feel like the living incarnation of fire.

Would I be opposed to Brand buffs? Hell no, my favorite mage getting stronger would be awesome. But he was already indirectly buffed with the AP itemization changes; Rabadon's became less of a be-all-end-all item, AP items have been equalized in general, and Luden's Echo is a very welcome addition to his arsenal.

**This is how i feel whenever I want to pick brand in ranked ** Should I pick him...? Well I havent played him in a while I really want to But then again I am aware of this:

-Syndra has better aoe damage and far more reliable (Seriously Brand has potentionaly 3 singletargeted spells) -Syndra has insane singletarget damage on top of having better aoe damage -She also has more burst (Infact brand gets punished if he uses his combo fast since passive ll tick less > "combo mage") -What matters is what is easier to hit .. Do I even have to say Its easier to hit with syndra. Also I am pretty sure all her abilites are a bit wider -Syndra has rougly 100 more range on everything -Syndra can move while using abilites While brand is locked for so long compared to average spellcast time -Syndra has better stun. Seriously its aoe + it picks off from 1300 range. It is 0.5 sec shorter however if you chain it with knockback you can make that diffrence like 0,2 sec shorter compared to brand. And honestly 1.5 sec stun is enough. -They have same mana issues -Syndra has a bit better waweclear -Syndra has epic buff control (Its worth mentioning) -You might say brand is better against tanks but it feels nowhere near like that . Its just that Syndra does huge damage to everything while brand is a bit more effective vs tanks then vs others

Xerath -No mana issues (Compared to brand) -Better waveclear -A bit worse stun but it requires no setup and has bigger range -2x brand range -Global presence -Just as good aoe damage -Abilities easier to land (Or rather harder to dodge) except ultimate but then again if you are against a good xerath then his R is not easy to dodge

Xerath also outclasses ziggs Since anti siege is useless this season. But thats another issue

Viktor -Same range -Well just as good stun until he gets the implosion -better waveclear (He can laser entire wave) while brand needs to group them all and W>E Them -Pretty sure he has better aoe damage -Better 1vs1 then brand -Shield (So he is safer) -Has a bit of mobility + can cast e while moving -lower cast times -Same mana issues ?

Those are most similar 3 mages to him (In terms of weakness and strenght)

If we were talking about release brand then yeah that would be viable today . That would actually do An aoe damage he is supposed to do.

I am already sure we wont See brand in lcs Eventhough lyandri and rylai got buffed

Rabadon is still a must they increased the % Players ussualy get it second or third on any mage. Yeah I know ludens is cool but he has to many core items.. there is no space for ludens

Brand doesnt need buffs He needs a rework

He has to few viable combos for a combo mage.. and he offers nothing unique. They could amp his aoe damage more but honestly I dont think they should aim that

LadyRenly1 votes

I don't understand some of your cons. Low range? No mobility? That would make literally zero sense for him to have.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand some of your cons. Low range? No mobility? That would make literally zero sense for him to have.

Its because of mobility creep

Having mobility use to be a pros however now its con when you dont have mobility since everything has mobility He has Lower range then an average mage

KingAhab1 votes

Compare brand to lux,vladimir, and malzahar he pales in comparison. Malzahar is way less mobile but easier to play with guaranteed cc(until they get qss which they are actually forced too because strength of his ult). Malzahar wave clear is better and mana problem is none existent if you want to fast push he uses two skill but he doesn't have too because of voidling. Lux and brand have similar wave clear that is where comparison ends lux is longer ranged has 2 softer cc and has considerably better sniping. Vladimir is midranged also but has sustain better burst and a form of utility in his ult that allows him to amp up his team's damage also don't forget his natural tankiness and escape. Also how about lissandra considered to be one of the stars of last season till a series of hard nerfs. She has better cc in her ult and extra cc in her w. She can an escape also did i forget the slow on her q which is spammable. First item removes mana problems pretty much if it's a roa or a morello. She has better pick and she has more safety generally. What does brand even have on her except that passive? I mean all i hear is this stuff about brand passive but mr ruins it. Sad thing is he can't just get void staff he got to get morello first (athene is a waste as he anvia and he is squishy to the point that the little bit of mr not saving shit also does nothing for his laning phase). Then rylai's (why rylai's he needs the peel and makes his q so much easier to land i know liandry's is better but its not viable to do that unless your just facerolling them).Then liandry's by now the supp should have a locket man your damage is straight duduu because you can't get 3rd item void staff.Then finally void but now your lacking the burst of a death cap or a luden's. His build is stringent and has no real room for changes without massive drops in damage.

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