Yeah, that really doesn't matter when he's zoning us from all CS and freezing lane. Then when you go in for one CS... byebye half your health bar, and any retaliation results in maybe half of his health bar and a death to you, then he just heals it back up.
Someone should not be this tanky, especially naturally, and deal so much damage at all stages of the game. At least Nasus takes awhile to do any damage and is single target.
Gigahappytown3 votes
NO MOBLITY XDDD JUST KITE HIM XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
LOOOL NO MOBILITY AT ALL
garens problemtic because hes quicker than yi tankier than dedicated tanks and has the damage of bruisers
fasega1 votesBut anyone can build these items so aren't the items the problem and not garen.
Gigahappytown1 votesBut anyone can build these items so aren't the items the problem and not garen.
Um no this build is trash on everyone else Its broken on garen because he gets 57 armor and magic resist free. giving 300 armor 150+ mr 300 health and a 250 ad
fasega1 votesGarens W only gives him 30 armor and magic resist, where are you getting 57 from?
Gigahappytown1 votesGarens W only gives him 30 armor and magic resist, where are you getting 57 from?
scaling armor and mr which are the best runes to take on garen as scaling armor outscales flat armor at level 6 which is when most melee champs hit their stride and scaling mr because its scaling mr
also garen is significantly weak until level 7 or 9 depending on the match up and most if not every top laner can outtrade him levels 1~3
fasega1 votesYea I know I take Scaling runes but that isn't free armor and magic resist.
Shroom Junkie1 votesNo, its the synergy with Garen. You aren't going to build Dead Man's Plate on Jinx just because it lets her move faster and she lacks mobility, are you?
fasega1 votesWhat I am saying is that every melee champ that you are suppose to kite can build these items. This makes it more about the items then the champion.
Shroom Junkie1 votesYou can't kite with a melee champ unless you're Kayle... If you do then it means you're afraid of Garen, which only further proves my point. The only ranged champ I can think of that would use Dead Man's Plate or something would be Gnar, or Gangplank but the only reason he'd probably go in is for his Q which would proc DMP.
Obviously others can build like Youmuu's or Phage, but combined with Boots of Swiftness, Garen's Q, the Youmuu's as well, Dead Man's Plate and possibly any other ally boosts(and maybe alacricity if he builds it), he'll probably be faster. The biggest threat to him would probably be Kalista, and unless she got a boost herself Garen would probably still catch up before she killed him.
fasega1 votesAgain this complains more about the items then the champions. Also you are suppose to counter build when necessary.
These two items work to solve the problem ranged champions (whether their AD or AP) would have against melee champions, making kiting a very realistic
Gigahappytown1 votesAgain this complains more about the items then the champions. Also you are suppose to counter build when necessary.
that only works if you have high movespeed/spammable mobility yourself having someone constanstly applying hard cc to garen or garen did not take swifties
fasega1 votes"that only works if you have high movespeed/spammable mobility" The 2 items are to make up for when you don't have spammable mobility. That's the whole point if you are actually kiting properly melee champs wont catch you unless they have dash or blink, which the juggernauts don't.
Gigahappytown1 votes"that only works if you have high movespeed/spammable mobility" The 2 items are to make up for when you don't have spammable mobility. That's the whole point if you are actually kiting properly melee champs wont catch you unless they have dash or blink, which the juggernauts don't.
Those items alone are not enough to outrun a garen with swifites
fasega1 votesRanged champions are suppose to kite melee champions not outrun them. The reason you have to kite is because melee champions are usually faster then ranged champions and run them down if not kited.
Gigahappytown1 votesRanged champions are suppose to kite melee champions not outrun them. The reason you have to kite is because melee champions are usually faster then ranged champions and run them down if not kited.
That doesn't change the fact that those items on their own are not enough to keep garen away.
fasega1 votesYes they are if you know how to kite. If garen is getting to you it means you aren't kiting properly. Remember garen is one of the easiest champs to kite in the game if you can kite him it means you don't know how to kite.
Boulderox1 votes
garens problemtic because hes quicker than yi tankier than dedicated tanks and has the damage of bruisers
you forgot a few, has more hp regen than a Mundo ult, and as braindead as pre-rework ashe
Gigahappytown1 votesyou forgot a few, has more hp regen than a Mundo ult, and as braindead as pre-rework ashe
yeah that too the rework was supposed to make him a bit harder to play like darius rework making his q not faceroll anymore but instead it just made garen even more faceroll
Mimy2 votesdoesn't have mobility... untill
Shroom Junkie1 votesThat, and boots don't help matters.
Rabid Husky1 votesi'm throwin my own say in this garen NEEDS damage nurfs his q has a 8 second cd and it chunks squishes to hard plus hes to damn relevant. i fought against him as gp i poke him alot (like 5 for a quarter hp but his 1 q takes almost 20%of mine thanks obama) i manage to get 3 kills on the guy and i still feel like im fighting him lv 1 all he has is black cleaver i have tri and a bf sword and my 60% armor ignoring fresh barrels that haven't been nurfed don't even chunk his hp let alone get the ability to actually go out and farm without tower. hell the big guy is still dominating i have yet to see op fiora beat him or anyone who isn't full tank if your the least bit squishy then hug tower pray for a gank or that you have cc and call your mom cuz your still gonna die
redniwediS2 votesEvery single point you've brought up has applied to Garen for literal years... This isn't new, learn to deal with it.
Shroom Junkie1 votesUh, no it hasn't... I used to beat Garen easy, used to lose lane as Garen. Now I win lane every time as Garen and have only once even close to won lane against Garen and that was as Kennen, in which we still went 2/2/0 each.
redniwediS2 votesI've played Garen for five years. Very little about his play style and capabilities has changed since the days of Sunfire stacking and double bruiser bot lanes.
If you can't figure out how to play against him when there are years of material to assist you that's fully your fault, not Riot's.
Shroom Junkie1 votesSo you're saying that his recent buffs, plus the new bruiser items that all synergize well with him, haven't made him stronger in the slightest? Not the speed and damage and tankiness from Dead man's plate, not the new villain system, not Sterak's Gage's tankiness and damage, nothing?
Not to mention the engage power of Boots of Swiftness, Dead Man's Plate, Q, and possibly Youmuu's active if he has it, Righteous Glory, and then any allies with speed boosts to boot(possibly including Righteous Glory)
redniwediS1 votesNo, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is his recent buffs, nerfs, and the new bruiser items have done nothing to cover his well known weaknesses that other items did not cover before.
He is stronger, but his weaknesses are the same and are just as detrimental to him as they always were.
Shroom Junkie1 votesHis main weaknesses have always just seemed to be lack of a dash/engage, and he fixes that up pretty nicely with all the speed he gets from himself, items, and allies(abilities and items, including Righteous Glory and Talisman for a major boost). Other than that I think the biggest problem is he doesn't deal much damage mid-late game without Black Cleaver/Youmuu's, and now against a Villain he does. He's allowed to be tanky enough to sit under tower and mock with emotes while being bombarded by the enemy before leaving and healing up in a minute or less. Even if he doesn't heal up fully it doesn't matter because he'll still be tanky as fuck.
He used to be pretty unviable because you could run away from him. Dash or whatever, and the biggest engage he had was from coming up behind you from the Fog of War, and wards helped that pretty nicely. But with his synergy with Dead Man's Plate and Youmuu's it gives him a pretty nice engage with his Q. If he saves his Q he can't really be stopped by slows unless they use 2 on him, so that makes the priority of the team to pretty much focus a TANK with CC over an average carry because this guy is in the middle of their team dishing out loads of damage on their carries and able to kill them himself.
So the opposing team has 2 options: A. Let the Garen deal tons of damage to the team and move on to Garen's team's carries. B. Focus Garen and allow the enemy carries to deal tons of free damage to your team, possibly and probably losing the fight.
I find it kind of bullshit that we have to focus down a tank. Even if we could peel Garen off of our carries that's still us, focusing the tank, even if not in pure damage but just CC and now we don't have CC for the enemy carries or to get through the rest of the front line.
Psi211 votesYou dare to say this could be a tanky juggernaut meta. Tanky meta fanbois SWARM SWARM!!!
Stellafreyja1 votes
: Base MS - 340
: +60 = 400
: +60 = 460
Q: +30% = ...
Garen's mobility is ridiculous.
Zone of Endless1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YhwPOb6z,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-05T01:56:47.581+0000)
Garen's mobility is ridiculous.
Yea and thresh just flay him
Blade of Justic1 votesFunny enough "No mobility and can be kited" is people's reasons as to why the AD build on Old Sion never worked.
Yeah, because AD Sions NEVER had these to fix that problem.